General Music Chat

Fear not my fellow Bandmixers, for I, the honorable fisherman bob, is forming an exploratory committee to run for President in 2012. I will announce the new party name and initial platform very soon, hopefully by Election Day. Although we may have had disagreements in the past, and probably disagreements in the future, it is with the deepest respect that I am asking for your support in my efforts to STRAIGHTEN OUT THE FRIGGIN MESS WE HAVE IN THIS GREAT COUNTRY. Although you may feel that some of my solutions are radical, I believe that REAL CHANGE (NOT the Obama slogan variety or the maverick b.s. variety) must start at the grassroots level. That means that WE have to initiate change. I believe that musicians are more IN TUNE with the REAL WORLD than any other group of people. WE have to be at the forefront of REAL CHANGE. More to come very soon, I'll keep you posted. Later...

Phil,


I am not a McCain junkie.

McCain was MY CANDIDATE 8 years ago when he SHOULD have won against Bush and went on to win the WHOLE ELECTION, and would have fought to make campaign finance reforms, and helped to avoid some of the BS we go through now, because it costs HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars to become president now.

But Bush's people did what Obama does now. Making suggestions McCain is out of control, and even worse, crazy.

I HATED BUSH for even suggesting of a war hero who had served in government as well for decades, is maybe a little crazy because of his POW experiences.

That's when he should have been president.

8 years younger. Respected on both sides of the aisle, etc... Hell, both me and my uncle would have voted for the same person. That may never happen again. If me and my uncle BOTH, would have voted for thsi guy, trust me, he would have won the whole damn thing. My uncle NEVER votes Republican. Ever!

A guy like that could have brought the country together and made necessary reforms.


But my real problem in this, is the lies and unfairness.

I was watching CNN tonight and one of the news heads made a completely idiotic statement, concerning Palin on SNL.

Something like...

"One of her lines that stood out to me, is when she said that this (Tina Fey's impression) is not an accurate portrayal of her real press conferences."

This news chick then went on to say...

"How would anyone know what her press conferences look like? She hasn't given any! This statement will get picked up and come back to bite her!"


Will it?


I wonder how many press conferences she has given as...


MAYOR!!!

and

GOVERNOR!!!!!!


Probably a few, huh?


Where is their minds?

Sarah Palin didn't exist apparently, before being nominated as VP.

As far as the press and haters are concerned, McCain grabbed this woman barefoot and pregnant from the kitchen of her trailer in the woods.

The president is president over all 50 states.

She is only presidential or vice presidential candidate in this election who has ALREADY run one of them. She has more executive experience than ALL of the other candidates. But does that matter?

Of course not.

This woman breaks the mold. Can't have that.

According to liberals, if you are a woman, you MUST either be a cosmopolitan one, that supports choice and detests guns. Or you should be a conservative housewife who says "sir" to her husband, stays home and stays pregnant.

A conservative, confident, intelligent, pro-life woman, who is governor of a state, and whose husband often doesn't work, in order to stay home with the kids, and she not only becomes governor, but the most FAVORED one in America?

What the hell do you do with that?

That changes all the "rules".

Can't have that.

What does 'the most favored one in america' mean?
They took a poll and Alaskans approve of the job that she is doing?
They prefer their governer over the governer of Wyoming in a blind taste test?
Do we, as average americans, sit around and converse and wonder about our governers on a daily basis? Or even at all? Helll nooooo...

It's political gamesmanship, and that's all it is. Period.
The democrats have the african american candidate, so the republicans moved their chess piece and got a woman republican candidate.
Now they can both say that they are progressive, forward thinking and fair.
To hell with competence and qualifications, right?

What does 'the most favored one in america' mean?
They took a poll and Alaskans approve of the job that she is doing?
They prefer their governer over the governer of Wyoming in a blind taste test?
Do we, as average americans, sit around and converse and wonder about our governers on a daily basis? Or even at all? Helll nooooo...

Well, since we vote on our governors, yeah. If you care about where you live, then you care about who governs it, and you pay attention, and vote them out or keep them in.

As to being favored, yes, Palin has the highest approval rating of any governor in America. Which means the people she governs thinks she is doing a great job.

Experience?


She has more executive experience than Obama, Biden or McCain.


According to Glen Beck, the budget she handled and number of employees, etc... was something like 40 times the one handled by Obama.

Is she up on world events as much as any of the other three? Clearly not. And that is a concern. On the other hand, SHE WAS running a state, and probably more concerned about their affairs.

But back when Bush was running, they had asked Bush who was the head of some government. Bush didn't know. The media went to then president Bill Clinton about this, and asked his opinion on it, expecting him to trash Bush over it I guess. Instead Bill said that not everyone coming into office knows all the facts about all the world leaders. But they'll learn them soon enough, once they're in here (The White House)


I wanted Bill to trash Bush instead, but I guess he had a point.


A president is not an island. They have a team of advisors, etc...

The question would be whether their judgment was sound once they got the advice, and know whether it was a good course of action or not.

I think what is good about Palin, is that she has shown that she measures up to whatever task is set before her, and there is no reason to believe she would stop now.


Are there more qualified candidates out there? Yeah. Of course.

Being a woman was certainly part of the consideration, both to get Hillary supporters as well as to even out the historicity of the election. But she was also chosen to please the conservative base, and calm their fears of a too independent McCain. Clearly McCain wanted Leiberman or one of several others, but they were all too left leaning for the staunch conservatives. He deferred to them in order to unite the party behind him.

The presidential candidates historically use their VP picks, when possible, to help them win the election. i.e. choosing a governor of a large state that he needs votes from.

So, there is nothing wrong with McCain taking advantage of Palin being a woman, anymore than it is wrong to choose a Texan, because you are not fairing well in Texas, and it is needed to win that election.


Clearly Palin is not the most qualified candidate available, but from what I have learned about her so far, I have no doubt she is up to the challenge and would do very well at it, as she has in every other office she has held.

She has energized McCain's campaign, and it is unlikely any other choice would have done as much.

In an economy such as this, the party in office, should not be anywhere near this close. Palin is a big part of what is keeping it this close.

Based on that alone, McCain made a good choice.

You have to be able to WIN the office. If you can't win the office, it doesn't really matter how qualified your running mate is, or isn't.

I nominate the moose for Pres in 2008, at least you know he'll do a better job than the other 2..

I love that word - "historicity"

As far as I'm concerned, Palin didn't exist before being brought to the forefront of this campaign any more than Clinton or either Bush did when they came on the scene. She needs to do some serious talking about the issues at hand, but she hasn't, from what I've heard. I'm hearing her cries of "terrorist" to bait the dangerously exciteable & poorly educated twits out there.

From what I'm seeing, perhaps McCain IS a bit out of control. He's made poor choices again & again - the debacle of the interview with Letterman, dropping out of the race to handle the financial crisis (during which time he didn't DO anything at all!), inciting ppl to nearly the point of rioting over Obama's terrorist associates & not being able to call them back from their fervor. If these are the choices me makes as a candidate, what kind of choices will he make as our leader when things get tough? He seems very flighty to me as he tries to calm down the very ppl he's incited by saying what a decent man Obama is.

Again, I see the two of them using the fear factor throughout this campaign, & it frankly offends me. It is time to quit frightening the little children, to bring ideas & hope to the table. Time to speak calmly & rationally about the issues at hand.

I am just as irritated by the media as any far-right or far-left-winger. They are definitely doing their utmost to keep stirring the pot. It's how the candidates themselves handle this crap that I watch, & as long as McCain keeps rising up on his toes & looking nervous & outraged, & as long as he & lil Miss Pretty Schoolmarm keep hitting us with warnings of horrors to come if we vote for the Dem's, I cannot take them seriously.

The more exciteable the Pres is, the more the nation will follow suit. The last thing we need is for ppl to get all up in arms over everything when a problem arises & make snap decisions that we later have to reverse, like dropping out of the race, or taking that important interview, or trying to calm down ppl that our words & fervor have reduced to angry mob-hood.

Palin may very well be great at everything she does, but as long as she's following in McCain's attacks & avoidance of the issues, she's just another fear-monger to me, & I think that only shows her lack of competancy as a world leader.

All I can add is you need to pick someone and vote for them, cause thats all you get. I for one dont like the choices we have but Im still trying to get a handle on who I want.

I would be curious how many folks on here actually take the time to vote. Some of the loudest naysayers I know dont vote at all.

If Palin was running for president I might vote for her cause she is an outsider, McCain Palin is a maverick ticket indeed.

Good Post Craig I really like your view on politics, I dont always agree but you bring up some thought provoking responses.

I thought the SNL skit was funny as hell, they are going to wear her out anyway, she might as well endorse it.

I hate these political threads.

But since everyone is being so darned opinionated...

I think the McCain palin ticket is one of the worst match ups of all time.

The McCain of 8 years ago was really nothing more than an image. While he was building his reputation as a 'maverick' and a guy who works both sides of the aisle, he was also involved heavily in the Keating scandal, to which many involved with the prosecution say he got off way too easy, he voted against almost every veterans benefit package that was ever presented in congress, and he shoved a disabled person in a wheelchair out of his way in a fit of anger over a debate over said benefits.

He cheated on his first wife MANY times, not just with his current one. He's also shown over the last 8 years that he is willing to sacrafice his "beliefs" to get ahead. For instance, regarding the 'swiftboat' attacks against Kerry in 2004, McCain called the swiftboat campaign "dishonest and dishonorable" .. however, today the swiftboaters are his #1 campaign donators and are pretty much running this mockery of a campaign for him. And let's face it, he's been running nothing but a smear campaign.

This is all provable and documented information, not lies, smears or any other hype.

Palin, well, she's really not qualified to be VP, and in no way qualified to be Prez, should McCain keel over after getting into office. It's nothing to do with her personally, but it's seriously like thinking that a manager of a family owned restaurant is qualified to be the CEO of IBM. She's lied about the Bride to nowhere, she's used her power to unseat rivals (under the umbrella of 'rooting out corruption') and she was also facing a recall as mayor of Wasilla for several infractions of voter trust. Not to mention that she took the mayor job with a balanced budget and walked away from that job with the city $20M in debt and a giant hockey rink the taxpayers didn't want to pay for.

She's anything but a feminist, she's not about a woman's right to choose, unless the options fall into her ideological boundaries, which are very limited. But her fake southern/small town act is what gets me. I'm from an extremely small town, and people who act like that were pretty much considered the "crazies" of the town. Her religion, although christian based, is a bit extreme for my liking, and it carries some harsh beliefs for non-christians.

I'm really not interested in the divisive politics of this ticket, McCain and Palin both have talked, and even made JOKES about bombing middle east countries, and both feel that war is always the best solution, even if the problem is only perceived.

IMO, we don't need this. Craig, You took a lot of time trying to separate McCain from Bush, but it's just not that black and white. McCain's policies regarding war and diplomacy are identical to bush's, as are Palin's views.

Funny thing is:
I'm a moderate/progressive. I never vote for a party, I vote for candidates, and NOT what they SAY, but what they DO. I really don't care for Obama. I think he's just "meh" ... and the funny thing: I'm not voting FOR Obama... I'm voting AGAINST McCain.

Frankly, I was wishing it would be Kucinich vs. Ron Paul

Talk about a win/win for the people...

ROCK THE VOTE
. . . . Y'ALL !

"A President is not an island'
Yeah, thats what I'm clinging to Craig.
I haven't decided who gets my vote yet, but when I do cast it, it will be a 'whos going to do the least amount of damage' vote.
Then I'll just hope that whoever wins surrounds themselves with quality people.

I still have a bunch of research to do on all of the candidates.
I havent done much research on presidential candidates in the in the past(ashamedly), but this election... I think it's just too important.
It's not good enough to go with who more-or-less represents my values anymore.

Kramer,

Some of your info is right, some of it is repeated spin. But very nice to see you are up on the issues!

I am a believer in person over party too. Good to hear that.


And yes! Palin's religion worries me too. Although I saw her pastor interviewed and he is smooth enough not to come across as a whacko on TV, so maybe they can separate their religious views with reality on the ground?


As I mentioned, I believe in small government, low taxes and a strong military, all issues usually embraced by Republicans, hence my vote is for them usually. However, just as I am worried over Obama's socialistic aims, so too, am I worried about the religious right's aims to turn America into a theocracy. That's probably MORE scary than socialism were it to be successful.


Weed out the whackos in both parties, I say!

Obama as President:


If Obama becomes our president, I will pray for him constantly, that he becomes a great one. I would love to be wrong. It would great for America and for children of color especially, to have a black president, to break that ceiling, and particularly so, if he goes down in history as one of our good presidents. I would love to see that happen.

But I'm kind of terrified that some fruitcake assassinates him. The first black president, a martyr? The MLK riots would have to pale in comparison to the anger that would incur. I think it will be a nightmare for the secret service for the first few years especially.


And what the hell is up with Joe Biden? Is it better to be more knowledgeable on foreign policy and yet not be able to keep your mouth shut and use discretion?

He's right of course.

Obama will be seen as weak and testable, and he will be tested.

But why does Biden say this publicly in front of the press, then say "ooops I shouldn't have said that here" Plus, he may scare off some of his own constituency.


But, back to Obama...


I like him MUCH BETTER than I liked Bill Clinton when he was running for President. Clinton seemed like a nightmare at the time, on the moral front, and trying to push through a very liberal agenda at first. But facing a Republican congress, he couldn't get it through, and he ended up governing almost like a Republican would have (except on foreign policy) and damn if the economy was not very sound under Clinton.

This time though, Obama will have a Democratic majority, and nothing to keep the ultra-libs in check.

So I don't know what will happen.


You vote for President on foreign policy not the economy. The president has an amazing and perhaps unfortunate ability to engage in foreign affairs virtually solo. A president cannot declare a war, but he can certainly create one. But he has little influence on the domestic economy. Congress holds the purse strings. So you vote for them on economic considerations.

Maybe it helps keep each other in check to have opposites holding power in these two branches?

Seems like it worked under Clinton pretty well.

The McCain of 8 years ago was really nothing more than an image. While he was building his reputation as a 'maverick' and a guy who works both sides of the aisle, he was also involved heavily in the Keating scandal, to which many involved with the prosecution say he got off way too easy

Not accurate.

It was originally recommended that McCain and Glenn have no involvement in this, but pressure was brought to bear, not because McCain really did something illegal or unethical, but because McCain was the ONLY Republican that could be wrapped in it, and the democratic committee didn't want to be charging only Democrats in this scandal, cause having 4 of them, all democrats, would look REALLY REALLY bad publicly. So they ignored the advice, and brought McCain into it anyway. Which, as everyone knows now, McCain and Glenn were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

I would be curious how many folks on here actually take the time to vote. Some of the loudest naysayers I know dont vote at all.

I vote. Not that it means anything. (Opening a whole new can of political worms) With the "Electoral" vote, I feel that my vote only counts for 1/2 or less of a vote. BUT I do still vote.

I vote. Not that it means anything. (Opening a whole new can of political worms) With the "Electoral" vote, I feel that my vote only counts for 1/2 or less of a vote. BUT I do still vote.

Depends on where someone lives. I'm pretty sure that some states bind the electors legally, to vote as the popular vote for that state goes, if I am remembering correctly.


The states have flexibility concerning their own electors.