General Music Chat

Call it what ya wanna', but that rap at the end of the movie "Men In Black" is awesome! Ya gotta dig that ol' Fresh Prince Dude.

I like him as an actor and I like some of his songs. That was one of them.

Here we go again. Here is a definition of the word music from Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary: the art and science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds or tones in varying melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre, especially as to form structurally complete and emotionally expressive compositions. I think we have covered this subject ad nauseum (I believe that's Latin for "until you puke"). I believe the key words to the definition is VARYING MELODY. Pure rap with somebody talking (rapping) over a beat WITHOUT VARYING MELODY is NOT MUSIC, PERIOD. I'm NOT saying rap is good or bad. I'm NOT syaing that rap is NOT an art form. It obviously is an art form, it's just NOT music by DEFINITION. Some rap artists (and they ARE artists) are making WAY MORE money than I'll ever make in music. Rap definitely has had a huge influence on entertainment. I even like some rap, not very much, but some. But based on Webster's Dictionary and IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, RAP IS SIMPLY NOT MUSIC. Later...

I think you hit it, Paul, when you mentioned one word: Talent.

Is rap music. Sure, in the same way that any kind of "noise" could be accepted as a music form. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way-dissonance is a very viable technique that many heavy bands use. To me, it's ugly noise, but to some listeners, it's great.

My question isn't so much of whether rap is music or not, but whether it demonstrates the ability/talent deserving of an audience. Yeah, Snoop and Will Smith are talented guys...But did P. Diddy really deserve to make a single buck off of "Come with Me" (That song where he stole "Kashmir"-I know, I know, Jimmy Page performed it with him...WHORE!).

It may be that it's your opinion that rap is not music, but that would be an ignorant opinion bordering on racism. I'm sure the first people in Africa to beat on a log and chant two million years ago were making music, just as Native American's fertility dances with just a drum and a voice. Not much melody there but it's the beat that counts. All the other stuff is just fluff.

It has NOTHING to do with racism. Well over 90% of the covers we perform were written by African-Americans. I didn't say anything about ANY ethnic group. I quoted the ACTUAL definition of music. Did the definition of music in Webster's include anything derogatory about any ethnic group? I've had various band members that were African-American, native Americans, Hispanics, Jews, and even a few white people. You have the right to have an opinion that rap is music. I also have the right that IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, rap is NOT music. I quoted from a dictionary. If quoting from a dictionary is ignorant, than I guess I'm just a big dumbass. Later...

Once again, Bob, we agree 100%

I peronally hate rap...but i love hip hop,it's a different form of music...just because it's different doesn't mean you have too alienate it.

watch this,and maybe you can see it through mine and other's perspective

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y12YgEIFcAY

if your actually open minded(and not just pretending you are),listen to the whole song and the lyrics.

First time I ever heard rap was the first "Beastie Boys" album (yes, a 12" vinyl album) in the 80's. My first thought was 'Oh my god, somebody finally came up with something that's actually worse than country'...I've always hated country after my father tried to shove it down my throat as a kid. Still do. I got screamed at for many years because I liked rock instead. He even told me (actually screamed it) one night I didn't have the right to make up my own mind what I wanted to listen to in HIS house. I told him no matter whose house I was in he had no control over what went through my head. He hated me till the day he died for that...and spent the last two years of his life screaming at me while I tried to keep him alive. I hate rap even more than I hate country, at least country isn't based on violence, prejudice, drug abuse and vulgarities. Yeah you find the occasional song with references to similar topics, but not the same attitudes.

I don't consider some brainless twit screaming obscenities and violent, derogatory nonsense to a bass drum you can hear for 4 blocks anything that even resembles music. I've been awakened around 3Am way too many times to have any respect for it at all.

Here's the best example.

Sitting at a red light in Lufkin TX, 2 high school punks pulled up beside me, on the left, I saw and heard them leave the high school a few blocks up the street. two little old ladies with white hair on the other side of me. As they pulled up to the light, I heard "I 'mo f&ck you in the a**...I 'mo f&ck you in the a**" and so on, around 6 or 8 times while this extremely loud bass drum rattled every window for a block. The little old ladies the other side of me rolled up their windows and looked both embarrased and disgusted. The two twerps with the boom box turned it up louder, laughed and pointed at them, making faces.

I've never wanted to beat the crap of a minor so bad, and I've seen that same attitude every time I've tried to get someone to turn it down and show a little respect for the neighborhood. Even at 3AM... They try to start a fight every time. Ask them nicely to turn it down so my neice and I can talk, they get snotty and smart assed and try to start a fight.

F*CK RAP.

amen..

"I did it for the shorties.."

aka

"I did it for the candy, bubble gum and taffy.."

(makes me want to kill) (if you don't get it, you might be too old)

Here we go again. Here is a definition of the word music from Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary: the art and science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds or tones in varying melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre, especially as to form structurally complete and emotionally expressive compositions. I think we have covered this subject ad nauseum (I believe that's Latin for "until you puke"). I believe the key words to the definition is VARYING MELODY. Pure rap with somebody talking (rapping) over a beat WITHOUT VARYING MELODY is NOT MUSIC, PERIOD. I'm NOT saying rap is good or bad. I'm NOT syaing that rap is NOT an art form. It obviously is an art form, it's just NOT music by DEFINITION. Some rap artists (and they ARE artists) are making WAY MORE money than I'll ever make in music. Rap definitely has had a huge influence on entertainment. I even like some rap, not very much, but some. But based on Webster's Dictionary and IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, RAP IS SIMPLY NOT MUSIC. Later...

Bob, read my previous posts. Rap does have melody. The way when Mexicans talk the actual notes go up and down in 3's. It is still a melody. And by that definition you quoted does it need to contain all of those elements? Because some songs don't have harmony. Just melody. In either case rap is music.

First time I ever heard rap was the first "Beastie Boys" album (yes, a 12" vinyl album) in the 80's. My first thought was 'Oh my god, somebody finally came up with something that's actually worse than country'...I've always hated country after my father tried to shove it down my throat as a kid. Still do. I got screamed at for many years because I liked rock instead. He even told me (actually screamed it) one night I didn't have the right to make up my own mind what I wanted to listen to in HIS house. I told him no matter whose house I was in he had no control over what went through my head. He hated me till the day he died for that...and spent the last two years of his life screaming at me while I tried to keep him alive. I hate rap even more than I hate country, at least country isn't based on violence, prejudice, drug abuse and vulgarities. Yeah you find the occasional song with references to similar topics, but not the same attitudes.

I don't consider some brainless twit screaming obscenities and violent, derogatory nonsense to a bass drum you can hear for 4 blocks anything that even resembles music. I've been awakened around 3Am way too many times to have any respect for it at all.

Here's the best example.

Sitting at a red light in Lufkin TX, 2 high school punks pulled up beside me, on the left, I saw and heard them leave the high school a few blocks up the street. two little old ladies with white hair on the other side of me. As they pulled up to the light, I heard "I 'mo f&ck you in the a**...I 'mo f&ck you in the a**" and so on, around 6 or 8 times while this extremely loud bass drum rattled every window for a block. The little old ladies the other side of me rolled up their windows and looked both embarrased and disgusted. The two twerps with the boom box turned it up louder, laughed and pointed at them, making faces.

I've never wanted to beat the crap of a minor so bad, and I've seen that same attitude every time I've tried to get someone to turn it down and show a little respect for the neighborhood. Even at 3AM... They try to start a fight every time. Ask them nicely to turn it down so my neice and I can talk, they get snotty and smart assed and try to start a fight.

F*CK RAP.

Sounds like your father talking Pete. Those punk kids with their *fill in the blank* music.

I think you hit it, Paul, when you mentioned one word: Talent.

Is rap music. Sure, in the same way that any kind of "noise" could be accepted as a music form. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way-dissonance is a very viable technique that many heavy bands use. To me, it's ugly noise, but to some listeners, it's great.

My question isn't so much of whether rap is music or not, but whether it demonstrates the ability/talent deserving of an audience. Yeah, Snoop and Will Smith are talented guys...But did P. Diddy really deserve to make a single buck off of "Come with Me" (That song where he stole "Kashmir"-I know, I know, Jimmy Page performed it with him...WHORE!).

p diddy is where I actually draw the line. His rapping actually doesn't have melody. It truly is montone. He did have one song that was really cool musically though "bad boys for life" It had bass, guitar with a tasty real tone, and drums. It had a crooked time going on.
Some rappers you can actually hear that they can sing even when they rap. Sean Paul is one.

An uneducated idiot talking fast over a looped beat while some guy in the background yells "YEAH YEAH!" is...not...music.

cRAP.

how educated are you? College degree? I didn't think so.

I'm not a big fan of the genre... but I HAVE LISTENED TO IT... I DON'T BELIEVE YOU HAVE.
If you can't find some musical good in ALL genres then you are not much of a musician.
I hate bone thugs and harmony, but give it a listen... it takes a crapload of ability to spray words that fast... and at it's core is solid background music.
There's a reason the overwhelming majority of listeners out there disagree with you and it's your loss if your small mind cannot concede that YOUR music is fading fast and their music is not.
Again, I don't care for rap... but I can certainly rise to the job of appreciating it.

afa def of music... even if there is one note there is a melody... but this is simply not the case for any rap I've heard. there is melody. it is not monotone. even IFF the singer was to sing in perfect monotone... the music still has melody. the instrumentation isn't monotone. furthermore... many percussion tracks w/o melodic notes at all would be considered music.

you have your right to your opinion, and I mean no disrespect.

pete I damn near split my drawers over that county music analogy... hehe.

beastie boys aren't rap.

I love the beastie boys myself... I'm a huge fan. If you don't like it that's fine by me... but it is music.

not all rap is based on violence etc... that's simply not true... but some of the best rhythmic music I've ever heard was NWA and straight outta compton... yes it is offensive as all hell. but heavey metal was offensive to people too... even if offensive on a diff level.
doesn't anyone see that the kids have to raise the bar? they love the fact that you hate it... it's part of the draw.