General Music Chat

If a guy can chip your teeth does that make him a dentist?

if you pay him for it -it not only makes him a dentist... but it makes him a pro!

so if he's bad at it... then he's a bad dentist... but he's still a dentist.

so if you play guitar poorly... are you still a musician?
there will always be someone better than you so to someone you will always play poorly in comparison to themselves.

there is an obvious line between simply copying and employing...
every blues solo I've ever heard rips off every blues solo that came before it... we pick out our fav phrase and combine it with other fav phrases to make something we call ours... how is that any different from sampling this and that and making your own song? the mechanics of how you manage to combine those phrases is not what makes the musician... it's the vision of how those phrases should be arranged...

I realize I champion the unpopular (in this crowd) opinion that altho I don't really share any zeal for the rap genre... it is music, and some of it is musically complex... if you (not anyone in particular) don't see that - well that's just your failing.

[quote="mistermikev"]

what about folks who play the theramin

Hey Mr Mike,
That would be me!
And I can play melody lines on the theremin as well as imitating the sounds of creaky doors, mooing cows, and haunted houses.

back on topic,

Pertaining to vinyl scratchers , if they are producing rhythm that is a positive contribution to the output of the music being played, what makes them any less of a musician then a drummer?
Or jaw harp player
or spoon clacker
etc.

I use my turntable to play records, however, and I don't like those records scratched!
Howlin'

always nice to hear from you howlin j.

How many notes are there?
I think the guy in the brakeshop this morning farted a #C.
He is quite a musician.

How many notes are there?
I think the guy in the brakeshop this morning farted a #C.
He is quite a musician.

Wind instrument?

I would say yes def... but how much of a musician? - debatable

if you compose on the staff are you a musician?
what if you just hum songs in your mind?
you've never played an instrument but you are a musician?
if you write in fruity loops are you a musician?
if you sing?
if you do beet box with your mouth?

what about if you just press these buttons and each button has a recorded sound that you didn't originally create but you put the sounds together in a new and rythmic pattern (keyboardist)?

what about folks who play the theramin?

anything that demonstrates a small amount of skill in terms of producing melody, harmony, and beat qualifies to a lessor or greater degree in my book.

A musician knows music theory 'and' plays at least one musical instrument. That includes reading and writing, or 'composing on the staff'.
Which means that I'm only half a musician. (Or thereabouts)
I would not, and will not consider myself a musician, or say that Im a musician in good conscious untill I'm fully educated.
At this point in me life, that will probably be never. Thats ok though.. I'll just do what I do, and refer to myself as a guitar player.

"musician n. :The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre."

so are people who simply render other peoples work musicians? how about a concert cellist? he only interprets what is written on a page... never truly creating anything of his own... unless of course he is asked to solo....
either way I think that if you attempt (not necc succeed) to create music then you are a musician.

so when we start playing we all copy others... and some of us never transcend that state... but we are still musicians...

since the dj is not actively reproducing the music he is no musician... but the record scratcher actively produces something new.... (hopefully) and therefore he is a musician IMO.

when folks refer to your ability to practice a musical instrument... what do they say? "he's a guitarist" or "he's a musician".

Mike,

Logic doesn't always go over well here. LOL

I hear ya craig, as always -it's a ruff and tumble crowd in here!

not to mention... my other fav site (reefcentral) is quick to kick you out if you are the least bit offensive... over here... things can get pretty ugly...


either site... is like being in a room full of people who all think they are smarter than each other (present company excluded, of course)...

it's the few who understand that we can disagree w/o hating on each other that keep me coming back.

Actually, from Merriam-Webster:
musician -- "a composer, conductor, or performer of music ; especially : instrumentalist".

But it's the view of the classical cats that a 'musician' is one who knows music theory and plays at least one instrument. Since they pretty much formulated the guidelines for western music, that's what I go with.

yes webster... a performer of music... your def is spot on.

"knows music theory and plays one instrument..."
I've never heard this def but I guess that doesn't mean it's not spot on...

so what of classical percussionists? very few percussionists know music theory at all... yet they would arguably be considered a classical musician...
I played in the orchestra in hs... I trained as a classical guitarist under a local university instructor for the first 5-8 years I played... at what point did I become a musician?
when I learned my first chord maybe?
when I learned to copy valsnr2?
I didn't learn theory till I went to musicians institute... and even then I didn't have the understanding I have now... and I'd stop playing classical at that point...

so all that time I was just a guitarist? ok, I can live with that....

so 90% of the people who come to this forum aren't musicians because they don't know theory...

so if the guy who record scratches happens to know theory... then he's a musician?

I would argue the turntable can be an instrument... just like fruity loops is.
I would argue that the record scratchers' ability to understand rythm is enough musical understanding to make him a musician.

Generally, I think they are just referred to as percussionists.
At what point did 'you' become a musician? Well, I personally would say, 'by the point that you could read and write music, understand the theoretical framework, and play your guitar'.
The guy that knows theory and scratches... if he generates pitches with it, then yes, I would consider him a musician.

I know what it means to be a musician falls into a grey area.
I just had to set a personal line, or definition, somewhere... so I did.

I lump everything short of my personal definition of musician in the Artist category.
I don't even go that far when refering to myself. I'm a guitar player. Or 'guitarist'. (And some people might even agrue that! )

I'm fine with each of us having our own def of what a musician is...
perhaps it's more formal for you...

but let me play devil's advocate a bit more...

first let me point out that no sound has NO PITCH!
all sound generates at some pitch so therefore we agree... the scratcher is a musician! haha.... success!

so you have to know some theory to be a musician... so no drummers are musicians??? boy you are going to make some friends in a hurry!!!

my def: if you practice the art of painting you are a painter (yes even if it's just a house)
if you practice the art of music you are a musician.

cheers!

lol
Heck no, drummers barely qualify as humans!
Drummers are percussionists, but some of them are musicians... they play other instruments, can read and wrie music, and yada, yada, yada...

Yep, we agree that the scratcher is a musician if he knows music.
I never said that scratchers, rappers, key punchers, west virginians, or 'whatevers' were Not musicians. Some of them probably are.
I laid out what a musician is to me.

Why? Because it's personally offensive to me when some schmuck cant even name, locate, or otherwise identify the notes on his fretboard, keyboard, or whatever contraption he chooses to employ, but still unashamedly refers to himself as a musician.

Scratchers arrange and accent and play and mix and it is difficult to do well. They are musicians in my book. Having said that most of it tis annoying. A decent example would be "pardon me" by incubus.