General Music Chat

I got together with some guys over the weekend to see if we're compatible. Seems they have a band with no bass.

I showed up & they were very accomodating - almost too eager to please with smoke, drinks, whatever. They really wanted me to be happy.

When we started playing, I fit in pretty well with the music they were playing. The drummer seemed especially happy with my work.

Only real problem I have with them is the guy that called me - he has this digital processor that he simply MUST use to the point that I can't hear what he's playing. It's so over processed that it's just a buzzing noise in my head. I was patient with them (yeah - I WAS!!!) & didn't say anything about it. But it bugged the living hell outta me.

The only way I could play was to watch his hands, cuz his playing was so muddied & distorted that I could never hear what he was doing. I have no idea if he's any good or not. The other guitar player was okay, I guess, but not up to my usual standards. The drummer has this tendency to speed up at every opportunity, but I held him back a bit, & he thanked me for it, so I see that he recognizes the problem & is willing to address it.

The drummer mentioned his tone to him, & said that he couldn't hear what he was playing. I was gonna jump in at that point, but held back, for some ungodly reason. I wanted him to turn that frikken thing off so bad! They played a lot of songs that they hadn't given me in the song list I got, so I had to do everything on the fly, which is fine & what I'm used to. It sure would have been nice if I could have HEARD what they were doing, though. There were some timing problems, too, which I could have fixed as the bass guy, or if I had either known the material better, or if I could have heard the mistakes as they were happening.

Add to this the fact that it isn't really my kinda of music, & I think I may have to pass on this one. They don't have a singer either. I'll give them one more chance, if only cuz the drummer BEGGED me to come back, & I like the guys, but I don't have much hope for them as long as the main guitarist is over-using that pedal. I will tell him what I think of it in my most tactful way next time, but in my experience, you can't teach taste, & I expect a lot of trouble in this area.

You got my curiosity, what digital pedal was that guitarist using? What amp or other gear was the guy using? This is something that may not reflect taste so much as he may (also) be unhappy with his setup and not know how to change it for the better.

He's using a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe amp & a Digitech processor, & he's had them for years, so I'd expect him to be able to make some sort of sense out of them...but OMG what a horrid sound he had! He seems to actually SEEK those tones. He tweaked & tweaked until he found that exact buzzy sound when I got there, & seemed quite satisfied with it & used the same 4 nasty tones on every damned song. I honestly couldn't make heads or tails out of what he was playing, when the other instruments were added to the mix.

I heard him at an open mic some years ago, & had the same thoughts back then, as I recall. I'd forgotten about it until I saw him again on Sat.

Other stuff comes to mind on this subject as well - the harmonica player who stomps on everyone's lead or vocal, the drummer who slams & crashes through a quiet song, the lead player who won't stop for anyone or anything, the bass guy or anyone that's just too damned loud or has a truly annoying tone...there are some things that you just can't teach some ppl, cuz they actually prefer to sound the way that ruinates it all. I'm not saying I have perfect taste or anything, but I can say that some ppl seem to have none at all when it comes to music.

Now the question arises as to how to address the problem. I figure I'll ask him to tweak his tone a bit in specific areas, like reducing & changing the overdrive, adding some mids & lows, & cutting back on the echo & reverb & delay & flange. Of course, he'll probably get his feathers ruffled, but I'm at the point in dealing with this crap from ppl that I no longer care about feelings if they're hurting the sound with ineptitude even when their chops are somewhat good. If it doesn't get addressed & fixed, & I mean right now, then I'll definitely pass the next time we get together, cuz it won't be fun or pleasing to the ear or anything.

It's like walking into a perfectly decorated house that smells like cat piss - you just can't wait to get out!

I can already tell you what his problem is.

I use a digitech gnx3000 digital processor. I went through 6 freaking amps and the worst tonal quality, by far, was the fender. I don't recall if the hot rod is tube or valve, or solid state, but basically fender doesn't do well with digital.

The digitech box he's using is most likely a modeler as well. He needs to pipe that thing directly into a PA (that's what I do now), or find a solid state amp, absolutely NO tubes or valves, and tweak the pedal from there. I have used a Line 6 spider amp for practice, clean channel only obviously, and it did the job nicely, but also I used a keyboard amp for a while that was pretty decent too. Guitar amps add their own modeling and when you mix too much color, you end up with grey. Which is what you are hearing (outside of any obvious over-effect like chours, flange, delay, etc.. that sh*t just muddies things worse in most cases).

Over-processed digital diarrhea basically.

You should print this response and help him out. I bet he's just not that accustomed to fine tuning "tone" and feels more intimidated, and uncomfortable by it, and therefore avoids it. The last guitarist I worked with in a band had a similar aversion to tone control. He was a spectacular player that sounded like sh*t lol.

On the other side of those guys, you mentioned that the drummer had a hard time controlling the tempo... I've not worked with one that was able to control that problem. I assumed it was just a lack of good timing (skill) and wrote them off as not-so-good.

I understand your desire to find more compitent people. It's a shame to find people with all talent and no ear. I too, like you, have a hard on for tonal bliss and can't stand obnoxious loud bass or effects, etc... I feel your pain.

I think half the reason my last band fell was because of my obsession with "clean" tone. You know, "hey, turn the fuggin bass down to 11...", "do you have to play the drums so loud?...." /sigh

Be true to yourself, this is not a good fit. I've been in the same situation with three, 25 years experience Bass players during the last 9 months of this year. I'm dying to find the right group of musicians. But I convinced myself that I can't grow musically in a bad situation..... Sounds like marriage!

over done effects are usually one or the other - ignorance of how to adjust sound / covering up a lack of skills or sloppy playing. if they're teachable you may be able to help them improve quite a bit. it may be worth giving it a try until you can find a more suitable group to play with.

"you can get anything you want as long as you help others get what they want"

Zigg Ziegler

I dont know who the hell Zigg is, I just liked the quote when I saw it!

Hey, you may be right, Kramer. His amp is a tubic one. I'll see what I can do when we get together again in a cpl weeks. I gave myself an extra week away from it before I started to rip apart his tone...LOL...cuz I have that big party coming up this weekend. I might have to sing some of the stuff, too, which is a challenge for me on the bass, but they need it since he can't seem to sing & play at the same time, either.

Philby -

It's been my past experience, the best way to aproach bad tones especially if it's cover music, Is to ask the guy, " Hey would you mind trying to capture the sound(s) used on the CD , if we are playing a cover song the closer we are to the original sound the better the audience will like us, the more they like us the longer they will stay and drink, the more they will stay and drink the happier the club owner will be and ask us back for another gig.

But If it's original music, unfortunately that may be his prefered tone,
and he needs some ear training - bad.

G"luk Hope the band works out for ya.

This is a pretty similar situation as my own, Philby. If you think that it's a worthwhile project, I say sit them down and discuss the issues you see. Explain that, as an "outsider", you have an insight that they may not. Also, subtley remind them of your experience level-not to throw it in their faces-but to show that you have the experience and knowledge to back up what you are saying. I certainly wish that I had done this with the band I'm playing with...maybe if I had set some standards, I wouldn't be teaching songs to them (and I mean each and every one!) two weeks before a gig...yeah, I'll stop whining about that (for now)!
If this band isn't your thing, don't waste your time. If I've learned anything from my current experience, it's simply not worth putting a lot of work into something when the others involved are talented enough and/or willing to make that effort...Damn, I've become cynical.

Cynicism has its place, Joseph, & I'll let ya know in a cpl weeks if it fits here with these guys.

Thanks for the advice, all.

I appreciate that this Gibson guitar going through the Digitech into the Fender may be a bad fit, & can only hope to fix it at our next meeting, IF he'll allow the fix. Maybe I should get him to try out some of my el cheapo Danelectro pedals...LOL...I'll bet he could make them sound bad, too, though.

Funny thing, he also didn't have a chord that was worth a damn. Noisy on top of horrible ain't gonna impress me, either. The more I think about it, the less attractive it all seems.

I DO try to remain in a somewhat positive frame of mind, ppl, but my thoughts just won't cooperate sometimes...LOL

lol I had this happen a few times to me when I was playing bass for $.

I developed this little riff that sounds like the busy signal on the phone.

When it goes to "the bad place", I start playing the busy signal until someone notices. Else, I just play the busy signal until the end of the tune or until things get a little better.

IF NO ONE NOTICES, just run like hell. They aren't hearing the band, they are just listening to their own noise, individually.

I don't use digital effects live for this very reason. It's like a movie that is all special effects and no story. I have a couple of Boss stomp boxes I use sparingly. You can't beat the sound of a Les Paul through a Marshall anyway.

I don't use digital effects live for this very reason. It's like a movie that is all special effects and no story. I have a couple of Boss stomp boxes I use sparingly. You can't beat the sound of a Les Paul through a Marshall anyway.

Yes, yes, and yes. Run philby run!

No taste-no fisherman bob. Later...

I guess I got lucky with my band, cause we all agree on everything...