General Music Chat

Ive been attempting to teach my mother guitar, as she recently aquired a shiney new acoustic for her birthday, but I have come to the firm conclusion that I suck -- As a teacher.
I've never had much experience in trying to teach the instrument to anyone.
I'm trying to start her off with a D major chord, cuz I figured that teaching her a basic arrangement for 'Amazing Grace' would make her happy.
She's having a heck of a time being able to fret the D major and have all of the notes ring cleanly. ...And Im at a loss right now. I always make sure to correct her thumb position, etc., all the little things but.. no dice yet.

You guys have any suggestions? And any roadmap for teaching beginner adults?

Hey Zip,
Lower action as low as it will go, even if it buzzes alittle...Now personally, the 1st thing Id do would be to teach her a D chord by barring E Band G strings and the 2nd fret with index, then play the octave D note on 3rd fret B string with middle..G will come easier that way..Let her play a barred A if she wants for now.MAKE her learn the G chord with M R and Pinky (C will come easier IMO).Main thing is to get her strumin and changing chord smoothly with out stopping (VERY IMPORTANT early muscle memory training.) Try to think of another tune quickly in the same key after she gets the hang of A G...Dont put all the fancy minors and dimished -5 in it for now... ..Soak fingers in pickle juice to toughen for callouses..

For older students, I try to make them comfortable, so often I let the perfect positioning slide with them. Their hands are gonna tend to be locked & unable to do the classic form if they're over 50, I've found. The strength just isn't there, & often it gets painful after they keep trying, & that's no way to get them to play.

Let her decide how to hold her thumb, but the fingers must be arched & play on the finger tips. I've had some older students do very well with their thumb going practically parallel to the neck, but when they tried to play it in good form, it just didn't work. This works just fine for strumming around the camp fire. No sense trying to teach a student to play perfectly, when all they want to do is to have fun with friends & entertain themselves.

I disagree with KIDD on using the M, R & pinky fingers for the G. I would get her to do it the folky-country way, with fingers 1, 2, & 3, at first. The sooner she can actually PLAY something, the more likely she will be to continue, & that's the easier way. Same for the D & C, stay in the usual finger formation, & keep those fingers arched. That's the hardest part for older students.

Once she has three chords down pat, & can change them quickly enough, don't fear the CAPO to get her to play in different keys until she learns some new ones. Keeping her playing is the most important part. So keep it fun & not overly challenging.

The F will be a bear for her, but once she gets it, she'll feel like she really accomplished something. Hand strength comes more slowly for older students, imo, & they often don't have the drive to push themselves for long periods of time on it when it's supposed to be for fun.

If her hand strength won't build up, do what I did with a cpl older students I had - give her a slide & a solid chord tuning. You'll be surprized what she can come up with on her own doing that. This is a last resort, of course.

I'd recommend teaching scales. I know... boring...

But even something simple like the basic major scale is great on acoustics just to develop the callouses and finger strength to be able to better finger chords later. I'd start with (open) E and Am as far as chords go. Both are similar and probably the easiest to finger and focus hand strength in a specific area.

I don't know nuttin' 'bout teachin' the guitar but I do know something about teaching music. One thing is certain is they are all different and need to be taught differently. Being classically trained, I agree in the need to learn the scales. By teaching her the scales, she will "get" chords. By knowing certain things are in scales, she will be more likely to be particualr about the chords she is learning. This will encourage her to use the correct positioning and fingering. One thing to remember is that she IS your mom. I have found that we tend to make it harder to learn if it is a family member doing the teaching.

But back to the scales. I insist that my flute students play their scales well enough to be performed at Carnegie Hall. Even if all your mom learns is 1-2 scales. Again, I know nothing about the gutar but I am sure that some scales have the same finger patterns. Teach the scales with the same or similar finger patterns. Teaching is impossible if the teacher is without patience. Every time your mom plays something...compliment her first. Then tell her how to play something better. Or better yet, just tell her to play her lesson even better.

philbymon, you were so on the mark it skeers me a bit.
She cant make it work with the classic form. I let her do whatever with her thumb and it tended to do that 'practically parrallel' thing.
She wanted to give up for the day, and we actually quit for awhile, I let myself stew for about 15 minutes and then went and pulled the guitar back out. Went with E major and E minor for starters.
Got them to be ringing clearly then got her doing the old down up, dow up strum.
Then I just had her play around with single notes.

KIDD,
It doesnt look like you can do any adjusting on the bridge for this guitar in order to lower the action down. It's not all that high and it doesnt feel very stiff to me, but then again Im not a beginner anymore.
Im going to try G both ways when we finally get to that chord.
And I will try to D barre way when we get back to that one.
Chord changes are a ways off yet I think.

Kramer,
After she did some single note moving around for a bit, I had her play 'half' of the E major scale. Didn't throw all the notes at her yet cuz I dont want to fluster her.
She wants me to map out (with stickers or something) the notes for 'Happy Birthday', so she can single note it.

Black57,
I think its more important to get her playing something right away that she can sing along to. Some strumming for accompaniment. Even if its just one chord at this point.
The way youre describing would be the technically correct way to build a musician, but I think a jump start is in order in this case. I can fill her in on the 'why' behind the 'how' later if she keeps interest.
I needed to learn in the context of song when i started, and shes a lot like me, so I'm thinking its better to go the jump start way.

Zip - her 1st song could be "18" by Alice Cooper, cuz it's so easy & fun, esp for someone over 40...lol


Em - C - D

It gets her single picking through the chord changes, so she can take her time with them to get her hands in position.

That's the one I use for all my beginners, anyway.

Teach her some basic tab. Do the B major scale, staring on the 2nd fret of 5th string, & the frets correspond to the fingers used. Makes it easier.

Once she learns the scale pattern, then transpose it to the 7th fret of 6th string, & give her the full 2 octave scale. Then move onto the minor, if you're going to teach her single note stuff. Most of the older students I get just want to strum & sing slong, & that's just fine with me as a teacher.

Have fun.

Amazing Grace to "18"...Whats next "Hells for Children"

Yeah , Philby my James Taylor suffers aittle as a result of my "barred D", BUT , lay your R on the F# and P on the D low octave and youve got the FULL D ..SEE?.. Yeah, my whole point was to make each KEY as easy as possible, thus the transition of chords (within the KEY)...From what the Zipperman is tellin us , Shes NOT gonna learn what shes NOT interested in right now.Yeah , MOM (black 57 ...Hey we need a MOM on here .. ) Family members and friends are usually harder to teach.I agree with learnin the scales but, at what cost ..(To ZIP... ) He's liable to get his ass busted and sent to his room ... ...Older folks like us get frustrated easier too when they that cant do something right off the bat..I know Im that way when I try something new..Hell, If I cant do in 10 min , piss on it.. ..SOOOOOO, be patient, let her "exclaim"..Dont pay any attention to it...

John

Thanks people for the suggestions and feedback. I'm gonna try another session with her this evening.
I dont think i'll be doing '18' though, or anything like that. Shes a little christian lady.

If you want chords, I teach from an eagles songbook. It's pretty easy and most everyone has heard the songs, no matter how many times..

Otherwise, concentrate on penatonic, slideable scales. Minor pentatonic is more fun, major pentatonic I find more useful.

Uh, KIDD...P on the D?

pinky on the the 5th fret A string (D note)

I start off teaching basic music theory... then I teach them a couple of notes on 1 string at a time each week along with a simple finger excersize... after they've learned the notes up to the 3rd fret on all strings, then I show them open chords.... I'l show them a major chord and it's relative minor chord and still help them with their single string studies... after a while, they get it... that's when I'll teach them a simple tune with open chords that they would prefer to learn.... With my more experienced students, I break out the college notes and start with scales, modes and short and long arpeggios as well as diminished, augmented, major 7th's etc....

It's been working pretty well with me as I've obtained quite a few students in the last 4 months by word of mouth....

Zip,
I'm a lousy music teacher and not to great a guitarist, but my advice is to ....
1) Tune Mom's axe up to open E
2) Share a case of Guinness with her while listening to some Muddy Waters.
3) Break the last empty bottle and carefully place bottleneck on one of Mom's left hand fingers.
4)Have her slide it up and down the guitar neck while you rip some Elmore James riffs on your guitar.
5) She'll either get it or not, but it should be a fun experience non the less!

good luck,
Howlin'