General Music Chat

...to go with my whine. So here's the deal. The band I joined has a very important gig on Oct. 3rd. It's a one hour show at 5pm on the downtown stage-Friday-during the Forest Festival, which locally, is really big deal. This is Prime Time-great exposure, not only locally but also to thousands of tourists. Even the visitors that don't make it in earlier in the week will be there Friday evening. We can really begin to make a name for ourselves...

But we suck.

It's going to be a bloody, horrible train wreck. Why? Because I'm dealing with a lot of inexperience. Some of the guys don't seem to understand how important this is. In particular, our "lead guitarist" (and I use that term EXTREMELY loosely). He hasn't even bothered to learn the 12 lousy songs that we are doing. The band could go on without him, but that pushes our "rythym guitarist" (who's about as bad, but at least he's trying) into the forefront-a place we really don't want him to be.

PLEASE point me in the right direction here.

Joseph as a half assed guitar player I just got to say that sometimes you got to take your lumps. Does your LG not try, or does he need a little guidence from a more experienced player? I was plenty happy playing the rythym parts but the guys keep pushing me to be the LG. So here I grow. Fortunatly for me Ray and especially Eric our bassest are very supportive of me. You were quite pleased when the project started off despite your bandmates lack of experience. Perhaps this is what they need to seek for more in their personal musical realm.
The first time I played in public it was just Ray and I. And we sucked.
BUT, we had fun, and so did the kids at the party we played.
Then life rolls on.

PLEASE point me in the right direction here.

Go that way...

That's a good point, Sans. When I started with these guys, I viewed it as an opportunity. The rythym guitarist, for example, has matured as a musician quite a bit. It's been a slow process, but he's learning. That's all I can ask for, and I am more than willing to suffer a little if I know that there eventually will be improvement. The lead guy is a different story. He's basically resting on his laurels, as he has been with the band for over three years.
Much of the problem is that these guys discovered their "comfort zone" early on. Three years later, they are playing the same five songs that they started with. Since I have joined, I've introduced them to, not only new songs, but also techniques as well as new approaches. That comfort zone is evaporating very quickly...that's a good thing. Unfortunately, part of the issue is ONE straggler who is resisting any type of change, and believes that, because he was an original member, he really doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to. And so, he puts no effort forth.
Man, I talk too much.

Craig, point well made-and I didn't forget, you kind of warned me about this when I first got into it. I shoulda listened!

YOUR reputation is more important than anything. If your band sucks then YOU suck. If any band member isn't up to it YOU"RE not up to it. If you can't come up wth a killer guitar player quick you should consider cancelling. My two cents...

Man cant rest on laurels he hasnt earned. If you cant push or drag him out of his comfort zone kicking and screaming then perhaps YOU would be more comfortable in a different zone altogether.
Best of luck my man.

More seriously...

I don't believe in canceling a gig if you can avoid it. That will give you a worse reputation than having an off night.

You have some time.

They need to double up or triple practices. Make sure they have a recording of each song and arrangement to work with at home. Ask them every practice if they have been working at home. Tell them you will go to their house and work individually with them if that helps.

Also, in a bind like this, shorten the set list. Have fewer songs, but songs that you do really well, and MILK IT!!! Jam for awhile between verses, talk to the crowd alot in between songs.

Be a good front man, and you will help make up for their mistakes. People remember being moved or enjoying themselves, more than they remember whether a band was note for note perfect. Guns and Roses were considered sloppy, but they had catchy songs and put on a good show.

Make the people have a good time, and they will remember that above all else. Ingratiate yourself to the crowd, tell jokes, tell meaningful stories. Bring them in. Do what you were born to do. Rise above the mediocrity around you, and give it everything you've got. Chances are, your band feeds off this, and they surprise you. If nothing else, people see your talent, and you may get a networking opportunity through this, with better musicians.

But, try NEVER to break a gig. Go there with yourself and someone playing kazoo if you have to, but don't break a gig. If you MUST break a gig, find the replacement band yourself, and tell the venue you have a qualified group to take your spot. At least that may save you from a rep as undependable.

One more suggestion...

You must know some really good musicians? Can one or more come and sit in with your band as a guest? It changes things up a little for the crowd and may very well disguise any poor musicianship a little, even if you were introducing a special guest for only a song or two.

That's what I need to hear, guys. One of the reasons that I started with this band was because they play the festival and fair circuit, and that's where I want to be, when I get my band ready. It looked to be an oppurtunity to make a positive impression:
"Hey, I'm Joe. I used to play with Backwater. Yeah, they are good, you're right. Yes, I would like you to book my band for your festival."

Instead, I'm afraid I'm going to get this:

"Really? You won't let me play? Because you saw me stink up the stage with Backwater? No, really, that was my evil twin!...Hello? Hello?...Damn."

I know it aint funny Joe but that evil twin line got to me.
Mini-me ?

Great suggestions, Craig. I really don't want to cancel, I'm just concerned about the results.
We've been practicing as much as possible, while working around schedules. Still, a couple of these fellas NEVER work on the material, or their instruments for that matter, outside of band practice. That's frustrating. I do plan on getting together with a couple of them individually.

You hit it right on the head, though about the show. Entertaining is the key. I might have to break out my kazoo.
Also, I came home from practice tonight and immediately e-mailed an old bandmate of mine (and begged him to save my butt!).

The funny thing about all of this is that, this was just a side project for me, and I'm definitely getting the lion's share of responsibility. I guess it's just a test I have to endure.

The funny thing about all of this is that, this was just a side project for me, and I'm definitely getting the lion's share of responsibility. I guess it's just a test I have to endure.

You just have to decide what this project is about on a personal level and where it is going. You don't really want to replace band members and organize things the way you like them, only to leave them soon after. The lazy ones may have zero motivation, but for all I know, they could be best friends with the rest of the band. Will they appreciate band member changes? I say that, cause to get this band into shape, you may have to advocate for getting better or more hungry musicians in there.

But if this project is just to keep your chops up, and to play out while you are waiting for the next thing, you should be careful about throwing too much weight around. If you do that, and they begin trusting you as a leader, it would be a shame for them to believe in you, only to have you walk out when they thought they were going somewhere with you.

I'm sure you are being open with them all, about whatever your intentions are though.

Personally, I think you are being too desperate for the whole package, namely a decent band backing you up.

Solo acts on a small level, generally make more than band members do, simply because the money is not being split 4 or 5 ways. Also, many venues just have a small budget for entertainment.

Let's say their budget is only 500 bucks. If you could carry a show yourself, they may not blink giving you 300 to the full 500. A band of 5 is gonna split that 5 ways, and only end up with $100 bucks a piece, whereas solo, you could triple that or better, still be keeping your chops up, and still be playing for people.

As a solo act, maybe in the coffee houses and cozier venues, you may come across musicians who dig your stuff. Maybe one of them is really good, and you discuss being a duo for awhile, with the idea, that you will add to the project as musicians come along, but only those really worthy of the project, with like talent, like goals, and like work ethic.

Maybe this way, you get the band you really want, without all the headaches, and all the effort spent in a project you are likely to just walk away from.

Your guitarist or keyboardist or whoever else, are people first. They have lives and families and schedules and dreams and hopes themselves. Be sure what you want before affecting their lives in a strong way. If you are going to take this on, and lead this band, always be conscious of how you are affecting their lives, apart from your own. And whatever you do, leave them off better than you found them, when the time comes.

put some hot babes up on stage dancing while you play ,trust me nobody will even notice you suck, the show must go on you still have alot of time to practice start doubling them up ,but I would definitly ask all of them if they are serious are not ,nothings worst than sucking on stage,It happened once to me when I first started playing out and I swore I would never play unprepared again and havent(sort of like getting your pecker caught in your zipper you only do it once,I must have wore button down jeans 4 a yr after that have you ever gone to a bar and the band totally suck,no fun 4 the audience and definitly no fun 4 you.If all else fails lose the cowboy hat and dress like a rapper they all suck anyways

Honestly .... I'm gonna come out as being harsh... Those guys would not have lasted with me for more than 2 weeks! Everyone in my band practices their instrument very diligently on their own. When we all agree on a tune to learn, they come down next rehearsal with the tune practically perfected! I have had a few vocalists and bassists just plain lazy bastids that did exactly what your guys are doing now... Screw that crap .... I'm not gonna be made to look like a dik due to the incompetence of anyone else but myself! It took a while... a few gig cancellations... but in the end it was definitely worth it as I've got the most kickass bassist and drummer a man in my position could ever wish for! As far as my vocalist goes??? His days are numbered due to the fact that he frequently misses rehearsals and hasn't perfected our last 4 tunes. We had an audition last weekend and another this upcoming weekend.... We will pick the best of the 2 and inform our singer that it was a pleasure but it's time to move on! His last gig with us will be next week and we will advertise our new vocalist the week after! It's a cut-throat business and if everybody ain't on the same page... oh well... BTW...The 3 gigs that I've cancelled did not hurt us in any way, shape or form... We just explained to the booking agent/manager/ club owner that we lost a member and just wait till you see the next one!

Sometimes when I used to get a "big gig" I put way too much emphasis on it, & everyone got nervous with me. No need to put that kind of pressure on a band over a gig. It's just another gig. Do it as best you can. Never cancel unless it's absolutely unavoidable due to loss of life or limb. If you sound bad this time, you can get your chops up for the next one & say you just had a bad night, & everyone gets those.

In the meantime, if your guitar player is too lazy or has a bad attitude, you'll undoubtedly have to replace him at some point. It sounds a little close to this gig to dump him now, but you'll need to think about it soon, I'd bet.

I don't put that much emphasis on gigs anymore, but I do push for a great overall sound, & when there's problems I address them as I see them.

If there are problems at this show, everyone will see them. It might be just the thing to get everyone to do better, or at least get everyone to agree on the handling of the problem, like maybe dumping the lazy guy with the attitude.

A single bad show doesn't mean the ruination of your rep, esp if you laugh it off & do better next time, & even better the time after that.

I voted beg a competent lead guitarist...

I did a show last month that i KNEW would be a trainwreck. I practically had to beg one of the guys to just PRACTICE and KNOW the songs better. So many *&$# )% mistakes in just about every song. Makes us look like a bunch of fools. Doesn't matter if everyone else in the band is a musical genius... When someone is hitting bad notes or has timing issues, then the whole band sucks... it's more true with bands than most other things, but that old saying about only being as good as your weakest link is amazingly true.

If you cancel the gig, you screw yourself
If you Play "as-is", you screw yourself.
The only option is to find someone who has enough skill and experience to pull it off, and get at least 1-2 practices in with them to get on the same groove.

You might as well kick the LG out, he's already shown you that he doesn't care enough to learn the material, and now YOU are going to pay for it.

I've been down this road, VERY recently, and cannot express enough to you how much of a waste of time it is to play with someone who's not interested enough to learn the material properly. Bullshitting your way through a song isn't learning it. Players like that need to be beaten and left in an alley. They ruin bands. It's also a waste of your reputation if you show up on a stage with a person like that... it's like saying to everyone "yeah, I set my standards this low"

Well, that's my take.

Good luck!