General Music Chat

Whatever tickles your pickle...

Noooo, kill the drum machine..

Robots are ready to take over.. lol

I've played with drum machines a couple of times, and it worked fairly well. As mentioned earlier, we would treat it as a live drummer, fir example if the guy punched the button and got the wrong settings - it happens - I'd get on the mic and say something about damned drunk drummers...

One was a full band and we couldn't find a decent drummer. Everybody we tried was always wasted, wouldn't practice or couldn't keep time at all. So we finally gave up and plugged in the keyboard and used it for drums. The other was a two man outfit, me on guitar and sax and a keyboard player who covered bass drums and keys. Both worked pretty well and we didn't get many derogatory comments that I know of. The one drawback was when I started plaayuing with a live drummer again I really noticed if he sped up or slowed down just a little...after 4 years with a drum machine your timing gets really good, and a live drummer just can't match it.

I say go for it and keep looking for a drummer. I'd rather play with a drum machine than sit at home watching my equipment gather dust for lack of a drummer...

Paleopete, you mentioned that, after
". . . . years with a drum machine - your timing gets really good, and a live drummer just can't match it."
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Man, THAT is the truth . . .
And, now any time that I mention I could use a good percussionist, I always tell people that they can even be mediocre, but they MUST have a solid tempo . . .

I'm having the exact opposite problem now, I haven't played with a drum machine since 2003, and recently I've been working on a couple of originals using the click track in Audacity to try and get the timing right so I'm comfortable with it when I get the songs developed enough to record. Boy does my timing suck! 5 years away from the drum machine and I can't keep time any better than I did in high school...

That's what I was doing a couple of nights ago (sunday night I think) when this nasty weather knocked out the power. I just lit a candle and kept playing, but I was amazed how bad my timing really was the first time I tried to play along with a click track. Not all that long ago I was going crazy because the drummer in the band I played for was so unsteady...when it was my perception of it, more than his timing to blame.

When I record, I set up a click track to find what tempo I want to do a song; usually about 110 - 120 bps. Sometimes I go 1/2 that & double time . . .
Then I use my drum machine to test different drum kits and rhythms for recording. I usually try out about 50 - 75 rhythms or so before I find something that is appropriate.
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And I notice I play with a tighter rhythm if I use the drum machine for as little as only 10 minutes a week.
You get that solid tempo going in the back of your mind, and can play off of it. And it makes you pause when you should, for the amount of time that you should . . . .
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I remember playing a gig with an inexperienced drummer.
It was a pretty complicated guitar rhythm, and the drummer didn't have the experience to recognize what I was doing.
And he kept speeding up.
By the end of the song, I was playing it at least 3 times faster, and I had to leave out a real lot of 'good stuff' just to play the song at all . . .
If it sounds better without the other musician, then he doesn't belong there in the first place.
I will NEVER play with a drummer who can't keep tempo again, or at least close . . .

As long as we are on the eneral subject. What is a good method of practice for a drummer to improve / maintain a tempo?

Work with a metronome, or light metronome, or drum machine. Anything that can be counted on to keep a steady beat. I've told a couple students to sleep with the damned thing running all night. It did help.

Perhaps to pick just one song out of a set and use a metronome every time you played that song? Would that help overall band timing, do you think?

I'd recommend that each of you use the same setting on a metronome when you practice alone, then use one together at practice, for a few practices. I think you'll find it more than a little distracting at 1st. Try varying the tempo slightly each time you play the song, too. (Not in the middle, of course!) This can help you all to learn to stay together no matter who sets the tempo.

Yeah, using it every time on one song might help overall. Never thought about doing that. Let me know how it works.

I've done the same song at so many different tempos & styles it borders on the ridiculous, but it's fun & challenging. I'd bet that would help, too. Take one of your slow songs & play it very fast, but STEADY. Or take a fast song & do it slow. You could be surprized at how it can change your view of a song, esp an original.

Take that old song "Kansas City." Play it slow, like you're on valiums, but keep a swing feel in it. It's very hip sounding. Now play it fast, with a touch of overdrive. Suddenly it's a different piece. It rocks. Use some of the licks you played slow at the fast pace, or verse visa. It gets intense.

Yea, I'll try and let you know how it works. Steve does a pretty good job on tempo along with Eric to keep us on. But we frequently play our songs a little slower or faster than "normal" Sometimes we like the way it sounds so much it becomes the "new" normal. I seem to almost always do my personal practice faster than the band plays the songs. Being inexperienced I try to make more noise to fill the space I guess.
Thanks for your input.

The hardest part is getting accustomed to the thing. In your head, it's not easy to admit that the metronome DOES NOT VARY...if you have a hard time staying in time with it, YOU are the one that's off, not the machine, period. The drum machine/metronome/click track does not change. That part is really difficult to admit to yourself. Trust me, I've had to do it more than once. I really hated having to admit that it was ME not keeping decent time.

Getting your timing tighter is only a matter of practice. A month with a drum machine on every song and I can stay with it, no problem. But for about a month it drives me crazy because it's so difficult to keep perfect time along with the machine at first. The one time I joined a band that already used a drum machine it wasn't as difficult, everybody else was already playing along with the machine, keeping with their timing was easier than starting out green with the thing. Plus I think it helped that it sounded just like a drum set rather than just a click.

I've started using the Audacity click track, I guess I'll have to once again go through a month or so of getting my timing back in shape so I can record a couple of originals I've been putting together. I wouldn't worry that much about it for a single acoustic song, but for at least one of these I want to get some other tracks done as well as adding other instruments myself. That means everybody needs the click track to keep things in time.

I had two Seth Thomas metronomes, one wind up and one tube, but they disappeared when the music store I worked with went belly up a while back. I never realized my metronomes were still in there. Got the Wurlitzer Electronic piano back, the Champ and Super Reverb, 3 or 4 guitars, xylophone, tuners, soldering rig...a month later realized I didn't have my vintage metronomes and can't contact the guy any more.

Definitely get your band to use some type of metronome for rehearsals, it will help in a big way. Some pro drummers keep a click track going onstage through headphones or an ear bud, and many practice with a metronome. If they don't, they should...

Just be prepared, first time you need to audition for a new drummer you will be really amazed how horrible their timing is when you audition people who have never used a metronome. Once you get your timing to jive with the machine and get accustomed to it, you really notice a live drummer's tempo variations, even minor ones. It's very noticable...Our whole band just about went nuts when we played a couple of gigs that specifically requested a live drummer, we had all been playing with the drum machine for almost 4 years, then suddenly we have a drummer dropped in our laps who obviously didn't use one...we were on his case about his timing after the first song...took a month of practice to get to the point we could live with it. The only reason we didn't send him packing and look some more was we already knew timing would be an issue due to our experience with the drum machine. I had already been there, so I warned them ahead of time before they spent ages auditioning drummers...

The wind up metronomes are better. I've used a couple cheap electric ones that would occasionally just lose it, believe it or not. It was very obvious that it wasn't just a brain fart on my part. They lose about 1/4 beat, then kick back in steady. Nothing worse, imo.

I had to prove it to a guy once. I set up 2 of them at the same beats per minute, & recorded them for playing with later. The electric cheapo went for about 1-2 minutes, then just went floopy for one beat. It recovered, but it was clear that it had happened when we went through the recording to play along, cuz they were no longer in synch.

Use good stuff.

I've never used an electronic metronome - before I bought my drum machine I used a Cheap Casio keyboard's rhythms.
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I've also used two wind-up metronomes.
The first, and best - was an antique wooden one - it finally wore out, but seeing as it was built around 1920, I had no complaints.
My father had used it for several decades before I started using it.
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The 2nd wind-up metronome was made of plastic, and was a piece of junk.
My father used it at the slower tempo settings, and I needed it at fast settings.
At the faster settings that I needed, it was obvious that it was NOT going:

click-----click-----click-----click
but, rather it was going:
click-click-----click-click-----click-click.
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The old one lasted close to a century, and the newer, more expensive one didn't last 5 years. . . .

I think all players would be better if they did do aome gigs with a drum machine. Most younger bands I hear have serious meter problems and they dont even know it.

Ive never put together a group with a drum machine, but I have played with a keyboardist who sequenced the drum parts.

If its the difference between playing and not playin out I dont see what the issue is. I use one all the time to practice with.