General Music Chat

The band I am in currently has a lot of "hard heads" in it- 5 other people to be exact. We play metal. I noticed that we all have a hell of a time communicating ideas to each other, and songwriting is usually a VERY painful process. =Just curious how everyone else collaborates with their band members for anything-- w/o pissing each other off

Your best bet is to just play and have friends, family, or your audience at gigs tell you what they think of your tunes. Sometimes when you're in a band you can't see the forest for the trees. Instead of arguing between your band members try and let outsiders critique your material. Or better yet get a decent recording and put the songs on your Bandmix profile page and let US critique your material. Arguing among yourselves isn't going to accomplish anything. I used to be hard-headed in the extreme. Now we just play the song until we feel it sounds good and then lay it on the public. Your audience will tell you if they're good or not. It never fails to amaze me how many times I think we're sounding awesome and get no response, and then other times I think we sound like sh*t and the audience goes nuts for us. I've been doing this for 25 plus years and I've found you CAN'T FORCE ANYTHING ON ANYBODY. Just play and have a good time and be open-minded and PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR LISTENERS. That's the best advice I can give anybody trying to get a band together. Later...

In the bands I've been in who wrote, I try to let the composer have final say on a piece, to keep it true to the "feel" the author intended.

This can get complicated when you have 5-6 hard-headed types, but it's fair to the composer, imo.

I try not to tell ppl what to play note for note, but if there's a signature lick in the tune, it should be played as it's written. Other than that, I tell ppl if it needs a speedy guitar solo or a slow one, or a build-up, or if it needs to be "sneaky" in this section, or whatever. Then we hash it out until I'm satisfied, if I am the composer, else we 86 the thing.

I have never collaborated, though. That opens a whole nuther can o' worms.

I always allow everyone to have input but I keep the final say. once you get that through everyones head and they realize they are a part of it, things seem to move along smoothly.

You guys should roll up a fatty joint...and burn it down

I agree with everyone's points here; but I think you guys might want to really think about Steve's response (or what he's getting at) . . .
.
Just curious . . . how tight are you guys? Are you working with any people you don't like?

Dope & uncooperative just makes you dopy uncooperative.
If you cant wrangle through a song without fighting, the chemistry just aint there. Some decent is natural and healthy. If people are getting pissed over a song you should loose them.

Not nessecarly, our wise ancestors used cannabis to open and expand there mental capabilities on a regular bases , but someimes aggression will also make for some good aggressive tunes, take Metallica''s black album for example....and many more.

No offense my man but I doubt you can tell me anything about the sacraficial weed. I've smoked and sold enough of that stuff to sink the Queen Mary. But not in a long time now.
I got nothing against weed. If it were legal I'd smoke it some more on occassion. A lot of very successfull people toke. A lot of people will never be successfull because they toke. It just makes me lazy and stupid, does nothing for my motivation or creativity.
I steer clear of it these days because it is illegal, and I always tote a rosco.
Aint worth going to prison or loosing my vote and nursing license over.

Every new song requires input from the band. The single question on my mind is when do I need the band's input. When I compose, I like to invite individual band members to my home studio to get their input separate from the group. It's like having a friend over for a few beers and discussing this new song ideal you have. I tell him my ideals. He tells me his ideals. A week later or two, we get back together after thinking about our ideals and we start putting something down on tracks. Then I invite another musician to get his input to the stuff I have recorded with the first and built from there. It's kind like this post of yours. You are looking for ideals from others (even though many will response) and hopefully you will read all before deciding which directions to follow. Also, I work better one-on-one musically, than collectively with the group during the creation process. I found that some band members can have a negative impact (musically) on the other members during the creation process. For example my drummer tends to bring too much energy in the mix before the music has been created. I find myself frustrated with some musicians because I want them to listen first before they begin playing. This is where the pain begins. Try to approach every new song as a separate project with different goals. The next song I'm going to compose will be more Bass focused. My approach will be to start with the Bass player's input, then the drums, keys, guitars and horns.

Unfortunately it's part of the job.

Good luck!

I think there is a different answer for each situation.

Myself, I am a songwriter/multi-instrumentalist. For recording purposes (and the creation of the "completed" song), I can do most of it alone. Performing that song is a different story...

If you have one main songwriter in the band, or, as others have mentioned here, an originator of the song, then there is a "vision" that the other members should ATTEMPT to be true to...this is very difficult to acheive because musicians tend to focus on what THEY can bring to the table, rather than supporting an original idea that is not their own.

A third possibility is that your songs come from jam sessions, where everyone has, for the most part, equal input. Unless you have a band leader (i.e., someone who makes the final decisions-and everyone understands that person is in that position), you are, IMO, going to continue to deal with chaos. THe bottom line here is that, the reason your band mates are "hardheads" is because they believe in their own abilities more so than than their bandmates.

For songwriting purposes, let me offer a suggestion: Team up various members of the band at random (draw names out of a hat), and have each of those teams work on a new song.
This allows everyone input, but also boosts support for what might be essentially "someone else's idea." It also generates understanding between instruments. In my personal experience, I don't know how many guitarists I played with that really didn't know what the bass did-or what it was capable of doing!
I'm rambling...good luck, man.

None takin sans,but i bet i could, i study what i beleave in, and you being a man of the bible should alteast be alittle offended that your own government has declared it "illegal",being that "god gave man all seeds as a gift" and all.Did you know that prior to 1937 when before cannabis was banned, the arrest rates for actual drugs like heroin and cocain were quite large and effective,...then post 1937 heroin and cocain's arrest rates went on a steady decline while marijuana( you know the victimless plant?), put more people behind bars then any other "crime".

I am not offended by it. I do however disagree with it. Being very libertairian in nature I feel we should be allowed to do pretty much what we want to ourselves. Yet if your state of impairment causes injury or loss of life to another. As in drunk driving. You should be impailed on the roadside. We used to be able to buy sell and trade in the counter culture as friends and had no need of weapons. We would meet at the "dealers" home. Listen to music and share our goods amongst each other. His old lady might even feed the group, but was never present while we conducted "business". It was an honor to be trusted enough to be invited to one of these "meetings" Then the Colombians and Casa Nostros became more involved and everything changed. The counter culture of peace and respect became lies and violence. It was not "just" the goverment or police who created the current state of affairs. The local law enforcement turned a blind eye to the trafficing. Violence is what made them get involved to the extent they are today.

But it is plainly the governments fault, if it were legal the thug pushers would be forced out of the marijuana market,so the so called law could concentrate on lethal drugs.It's pretty f@cked that they can shove pills down our throats and say it's okay...but weeds bad?f**k em.It's a shame you don't toke as often anymore, i've been told by older generations that todays buds have way higher THC content,personally it's never slowed my intellect, just increased my thrist for knowledge....it actually helped me kick an addiction to speed too.But were way off topic i think,lol ,I"ll end with my favourite quote from an american

"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."-
Thomas Jefferson

so, smoke freely

Here, Alan, I'll do it for you...


MUSIC.

(Lol, guys, good points, but way off from answering the guy's question).

AliveatmyFuneral1, I'd be interested to know a little more about the situation. Where do the communication issues come from? Is it all about egos, or is it creative differences? Maybe it's about influences...

I played in a band once, during my progressive phase, with a punk guitarist...hmmm, extensive, complicated basslines and arrangements-hand in hand with simplistic, fast chording and slap-you-in-the-face performance...it...didn't...work...( ).