United States

Victory: for my soul against the evil forces that shake my faith on a daily basis.

GOD BLESS AMERICA because she is the last hope for the freedom of which you speak. Despite all her faults. She, by virtue of you and me and our constatution is the last stand against total socioeconomic control by the world bank. Not just for us / US, but for the world.

I see the opposite happening though. FEMA detention camps, increased spying on citizens, loss of civil rights, and loss of habeas corpus (enemy combatant, can label anyone and lock em up for life with no rights whatsoever). Soon SB1959 will seal the deal, if enacted (and the house version HB1955 passed with only 6 nays), this legislation would make any spoken dissent against the war(s), government, state, politician a crime. What I typed (complaining about losing civil rights) would actually be a punishable crime (officially labeled an enemy combatant) and I would be detained, and ultimately prosecuted.

Canada, by definition is a much "free-er" country by every measurable standard. Many others as well. Even many socialist countries like denmark and sweden have citizenswho enjoy much more liberty than US c tizens.

I see organized religion as a willing party to the "big brother" government we have coming. I expect things to be much like "life" in the movie "V for Vendetta" was portrayed. I don't think either presidential candidate will stop, or even slow, this progression down. Too many corporate, government, special interests, and religious groups are supporting the push towards a police state.

Now you are getting me going. Guess I have a lot to rant about. I really don't like what I've been seeing the last 8 years. Scary times. The church wont help us through that. Religion might, but I have a feeling that it will be used as a weapon of misinformation and justification rather than the moral compass it's supposed to be.

I feel sorry for people like you. I know you are a decent person and mean well in what you do. You ultimately have to deal the closest with the scumbags who are using your faith to destroy the world, in an attempt to control it.

Do not feel sorry for me brother. I face my challenge in life with an anticipation.
Bring it on motherfuckers!
I guess that dont sound too Christian.
Even Christ whom was witout sin ran the money changers from his fathers house with a whip.
Thank you for the opportunity to share and for the self examination that is always a part of intelligent debate.
God Bless

man..no wonder we don;t see irmunsul anymore...

Thank God there is a rise in Christian values, as well as a rise in religion in general, not necessarily Christianity. As our society approaches one-world securalism (hope I spelled it right) it is refreshing to see people returning to their religious roots. Even though I am not Christian I for one do not fear the rise in religious fervor AS LONG AS IT IS NOT FORCED ON ME OR ANY OTHER NON-BELIEVER. Right now I do not feel that the majority of the current crop of religious revivalists are akin to crusaders or the Spanish Inquisition. I think getting back to your Christian roots, or Buddhist roots, or Hindu, or any of the great world religions is a good thing. We need to understand that the rise of moral bankruptcy has to be countered with strong morality. If you live a life according to the best traditions of whatever religion you believe AND YOU DON'T FORCE IT ON SOMEONE ELSE AND YOU LEAD BY EXAMPLE, then and only then will it have a positive influence on everybody as a whole and cannot but help improve the lives of those around you. Even if you are agnostic or atheist and lead a good moral life, then it can do good to those around you. It is only natural that an increased interest in Christian music is happening. I listen to it occasionally. I really enjoy old time Christian music. I like it because the quality of the music is redeeming and I can understand most every word. I don't necessarily agree with the content of the words, but again, I don't feel like I'm being forced into anything. It simply IS GOOD MUSIC. Part of making music is that it gives people a vehicle to express what they are thinking about, whether it be political, religious, whatever. Again, I don't feel threatened by anything happening with religion today. What happened in Nazi Germany for example is very unlikely here because of our ethnic and religious diversity. This diversity gives us incredible strength. If you look at the ethnic strife, chaos, and in some cases all out war in other parts of the world, you HAVE TO ADMIRE THIS COUNTRY. I've rambled on enough. Good topic, thanks for bringing it up. Later...

Hitler & his cronies designed nazi-ism to be frighteningly similar to a religion. They used their own "religious zeal" to bring the ppl into the fold. They stole & used religious symbols (the swastica, for example) & religious rites were employed to show patriotism, to induce a sort of hypnotic frenzy, & to help convince the ppl that theirs was a good way to bring about world peace through war & genocide.

I fear the same may be happening here, & that we are in the very early stages of it.

As our leaders elect future leaders & we are more & more controlled & watched & punished for our "heresies," it's only natural that we as a ppl would turn to our gods for help, for comfort, & for assurance that we are indeed doing the right things even when it's patently obvious that we as a ppl are not.

Many of our religious leaders are helping this process along with words of encouragement, or by backing this candidate or that. They also in many cases are introducing their own brands of hatred, like good ol' Pat Robertson's call to kill Chavez, which has been declared illegal in the world court. Somehow he got away with it. I guess cuz he's such a "saintly" dude. There was also the hatred & racial bigotry that Obama's minister was spewing, & he was definitely not the only one doing that.

The more of this I see, the less I want to join in. I avoid churches as if they were leper colonies these days. The bigotry & hatred & falsehoods I see coming from them really bothers me a great deal, but I am at a loss to find a way to combat it, other than to teach my son those things that I believe in, which I did to the best of my abilities.

well put philby.


And sorry guys if I go on tangents sometimes. I grew up in a very idealistic environment where everything made sense, right and wrong were obvious, and everyone was generally kind and giving. Then I was thrust into a world that was the polar opposite of everything I knew.

I've never been able to shrug off my initial idealisms, or liberalisms perhaps.

I see a world full of liars, cheaters, murderers, thieves, you name it, and it seems like they are all running the place. A good friend of mine once said:

"9 out of every 10 very wealthy people you will meet didn't get that way by being moral or honest"

He had a good point.

But anyways, what I meant to say was "sorry". I will tone it down a notch and try to stick to what we all have in common - the music.

This is a perfectly suitable post on any musician forum, Kramer. It does speak about the music, & how it's being used.

I like this thread a lot, & I'm glad you brought the subject up for me to think about.

It may be a touchy topic for many of us, but it's one of those things that we, as musicians, need to think about. I often wonder where we're going as a nation & as a planet, & this is definitely a powerful influence in our modern age. It frankly puzzles me that it could be such a strong force for so many.

Thanks.

WOW these threads are getting even more heated, if that's possible.

I like to read them but, you scan over and see Celtic's remark and it makes ya think a little.

Having said that, I have to throw some gas on the fire.

I believe in god, but have no inclination to be playing and have god playing lead so to speak. LOL (he should get his own band)

I like the music that I like. If others want to play that type of music, I have to surmise that the music they are playing is the stuff they really love.

If that's the case, then it's ok.

IF, however, people are playing that style of music as a short cut? LOL

WELL, let's say god likes to flick/pinch heads.. (The big fingers are looking for yours next)

I rather doubt that he would be amused by the fake sentiments. (DANGER-DANGER_DANGER)

Remember god is cruel.. (you never want to be the one that has to tell him, he's out of key) lol

I geuss my appreciation for large mammories wouldn't really be appropriate in this thread?

I geuss my appreciation for large mammories wouldn't really be appropriate in this thread?

It's okay if you like 'big' girls, Crip
JUST KIDDING!

I am totally convinced that he whom created mams for us guys to enjoy (I dont mean the plastic surgion either) Likes a good pair as well. And a cold beer with a fine cigar. How could you look upon the beauty of a fine woman and doubt she was made for us. And we for her.
Truly magnificent is creation.

Great...thanx...then I LOVE BIG BOOBIES

Seconded!
Can we have a vote from the floor.

Kramerguy. I feel you, man.

I just want to say it's not the Church that you find upsetting, nor is it religion, nor Christianity, nor Christians, nor the rapid growth of Christian bands. It's hypocrisy that you find intolerable, and there's nothing you can do about it because it's a disconnect between a person and his own behavior.

Don't expend a lot of energy trying try to make sense out of religion, either. It can't be done. Religion isn't like math. Religion is about hope, and hope is a good thing. Religion is valid, even if it doesn't add up.

You don't owe anybody an explanation. You don't have to prove what you believe. If it makes you feel any better, I believe a man who describes himself as agnostic has a better grasp on reality than does a man who can't see his own hypocrisy.

When people offer ridiculous arguments to prove what is false, just let it go. Reason and stupidity are incompatible. You can't make the lame walk, but you can let them enjoy their affliction. "I knew a girl who went blind when she got scared. She just couldn't see what she just wouldn't see." (Krista Detor, 2008)

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Hey Crip, I don't think you appreciate large mammories, I think you WORSHIP THEM!! I can think of a lot worse things to worship. Thanks for interjecting your thoughts in this discussion Crip. I for one really appreciate it. Later...