General Music Chat

Global Warming is obviously a myth...And there's plenty of evidence to back that up. Scientists have found that the Earth has actually COOLED a degree in the past year.

Al Gore is practically the spokesman for the anti-global-warming movement. You know why?...Control. If he can get Americans to believe that the things they are doing are causing an entire planet to be destroyed, he can get them to do whatever he wants. He now has CONTROL over a large group of people.

And Al Gore's film "An Inconvenient Al" (oops, I meant "An Inconvenient Truth") has a scene of the polar ice caps. It's supposed to show how melted they have become because of global warming...But what he didn't tell you was, that scene was a COMPUTER GENERATED scene that he stole from the movie "The Day After Tomorrow".

Also, Al Gore is telling everyone to conserve energy........His mansion DOUBLED it's power usage in the last year...DOUBLED. I don't think that's cutting back...

There is no evidence to support global warming, and there never will be. God created the Earth to TAKE CARE OF ITSELF.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not against energy conservation and pollution control...I just think it's been taken a little too far.

...

And even if global warming was true, it would be the fault of the vegetarians.

When cows fart, they release methane gas which destroys ozone.

And plants clean the air of toxins by photosynthesis. They take in the dirty air, and send out clean air.

Well, vegetarians eat all the plants and let all the cows live...Therefor, there are more cows polluting the air, and less plants to clean it.

So the steak dinner I ate last night...I did that for the environment.


- Ryan

Sorry Ryan you're straining your credibility. The ONLY reason cows exist at all is because we consume them and their by-products. Six billion people fart everyday, maybe you should eat some of them.

Sorry Ryan you're straining your credibility. The ONLY reason cows exist at all is because we consume them and their by-products. Six billion people fart everyday, maybe you should eat some of them.

Human farts don't destroy ozone. And I was just kidding about the last part anyway. Global Warming is not vegetarians fault...because there's no such thing as global warming anyway...

Ryan,
Global warming is not a myth. Al gore used those images to make a point, not display as factual scientific data. It's like using a chart to show declining profits at a meeting, rather than bringing in suitcases of cash and turning it over to bankers on the spot.

If you want proof, just look up glacier national park. Or do a google search for "ice shelf, decline, before and after" and you will have all the science you need as verifiable proof.

Even the Bush whitehouse, the environments' #1 enemy has admitted GW is real. You seem to have bought into propaganda, which is being perpetuated by BOTH sides of the argument.

Part of the problem with GW is simply that it's natural occurrence. One that should normally take 10,000 years before it starts tilting back in the opposite direction. We know that human activity is causing an accelleration, but considering that recorded history doesn't go back far enough to have any facts on ice ages and tropic ages, we are left guessing a LOT of variables. So the argument has been over % of human effect vs. natural effect. It's worth adding that cow farts are considered part of the human factor, simple because we breed them as livestock. We have seen very noticeable changes in ice shelves and density over the last 50 years that had scientists scratching their heads saying "wow, I thought it took hundreds if not thousands of years for that to happen" which is what started this whole GW debate.

Saying that it's a myth is dangerous. Saying that the sky isfalling is equallyas dangerous. BUT.. we knew 25 years ago that the environment was suffering from human activity, like smog, littering, trash, aerosol, foam, lots of other stuff. We made some changes and slowed down our effect, but we never took enough steps to actually stop our effect, and when you consider that there are almost 7 billion people, all by their own existence being a collective part of the problem, you really do have a serious problem.

China, India, and the USA, for that matter, are the perfect examples of environmental crimes. Look at mercury. It's poisonous at very low levels of exposure, yet our society (EPA) has allowed industry to pump so much of it, over time, into our air (coal burning, industrial waste) and water, that almost EVERYTHING is mercury toxic, beyond what the FDA considers a toxic dosage (one can of tuna can have3x the toxic dose). 49 states have declared all freshwater fish to be potentially mercury toxic. The one state that didn't report- never did the study (dick cheyney's home state, anyone?). Groundwater is poisoned by it. Notice all the water quality test can detect trace amounts of chemicals, but nobody ever reports or discloses the mercury levels of city drinking water? Even spring water throughout most of the world is contaminated by it. Scary crap.

Autism, ADD, ADHD, Aspergers, CP, Downs, tons of other mental and birth defect related impairments are undoubted linked to mercury exposure. Don't hold you breath waiting for any federal agency or federally funded science to admit that. though. In fact, that's my point. All the info we get-- nothing but propaganda. Both sides. Seek the real truths and the big picture starts to become clearer. Lots of wealth doesn't care about the environment, wealth controls politics, and the oil industry has sponsored more anti-GW propaganda than all pro-GW campaigns combined. Hell, Exxon paid scientists and journalists $10,000 a pop per peer-reviewed paper, or news story supporting the anti-GW agenda.

Anyways, don't be so smug in the idea that you know the truth. We're so buried in lies that we may never know the real truth, but the simple fact that the lies run so deep should be cause for concern.

Trace the dollars, find the truth.
The exact same toxins, the socalist say we are poisoning our planet with are easy to find in the sediments and million year old ice.
I do think man should live cleaner and more respectfull of our home.
But saying we are destroying our planet is just bullshit put forth by those who would use fear to make a buck on anything but oil. The florescent light bulb? Did they tell you It's mag floride a carcenogen. Did they tell you they have to disposed of as biohazard? No they tell you it's the green planet friendly alterative. (more dangerous than mercury or lead)
The real battle is about the flow of denero. Just look at whom all the "green" subsides are going to in the most recent legeslation.
And me I'm just "STUCK IN THE MIDDLE WITH YOU"
The more we argue over two nonexistant polacies the more ground we all lose toward the truth.

Did you know that Mars has heated up in the exact same proportion as the Earth? Cow farts MUST BE REALLY POTENT. Later...

Ryan - as the polar ice caps melt, they dump huge amounts of unsalty water into the oceans, This water is cold. It brings the world temps down for a time, as the water levels rise, & the desalination of sea waters make it more & more difficult for saltwater beings to survive.

The entire ecosystem of the planet is completely dependant upon this sea life.

No. It isn't false. & yes, it is something we all should be extremely concerned about, for ourselves, yes, but even more so for future generations, who will have to live in a world that is losing all its animal & plant diversity, to the point that, well, everything will all die out.

All life on this planet is dependent upon other life. Try to remember that as you eat your meat & veggies while you crank up the AC or set your thermostat at 80 in the winter.

I believe what we're going through is a natural variation. I think we're putting way too much importance on our influence on this planet. When Greenland was first settled hundreds of years ago by Europeans it was warm enough to support a fairly good sized colony. Then within fifty years the colony disappeared because it got cold. Talk about global warming, what about the sizzling summers of 1934 & 1936? The record setting heat they had in those years makes our current "heat wave" seem rather cold. This year China had its coldest winter in over a hundred years. Looking back in history there's been numerous swings in temperatures. One scientific opinion I recently read claims that we're heading into a very cold period because of sunspot activity. Developing cleaner energy technology is a good thing. Getting off of fossil fuels is a good thing. Doing so is NOT GOING TO SAVE THE PLANET. We're NOT that important. Remember the Y2K hysteria? All the computers were supposed to fail and entire electrical systems were going to shut down, etc. etc. People got rich off of giving lectures on the pending Y2K disaster. I think the same kind of thing is happening now. Somebody comes up with a theory of future doom and they make a fortune off it. The fact is eventually life on earth will drastically transform (like the dinosaurs), man WILL disappear. SO WHAT. I'm not worried about it. Just because I switched to compact fluorescent bulbs and drive a more energy efficient vehicle isn't going to save the planet. There is nothing wrong with cleaner air. There's nothing wrong with getting off fossil fuel. The new technologies should increase jobs and revenue for this country. Again, WE'RE REALLY NOT THAT IMPORTANT. LAter...

What Philby alludes too and Bob expounds upon,is scientificaly relavent and provable, as it has happened many times over the last several million years. It cycles indifferent to man. All of mans Co2 and So2 production in the last 200 years does not match the output of a single volcanic eruption. Which, by the way, also are on the increase cycle according to the USGS.
The fallacy is the assumption that the current climate is the best possable senario. (and that polar bears cant swim, Gore is such a dumbass.) Or somehow stable. All living ecosystems require a constant change. Even the fruit trees and the great oak cycles its mast crop in 5 to seven year systems. Any true hunter knows that animal populations do the same.

Our solar system is violent in nature. The earth has been hit many more times by asteroids than the moon. These hits happen usually many millions of years apart. One of those particularly large hits probably caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. Mega volcanoes have also periodically erupted causing significant climate changes. There is the possibility that the entire Yellowstone National Park could eventually blow up making Mt. St. Helens look like a zit popping in comparison. This would create a nuclear winter and most likely cause the extinction of homo sapiens. There is an island in the eastern Atlantic ocean (Tierra del Fuego?) that could beak apart in a volcanic eruption and slide into the ocean with a resulting tidal wave that would slam our eastern seaboard and kill millions of people. The idea that man could cause something akin to an asteroid collision on earth is utterly preposterous. Our contribution to global catastrophe is miniscule in comparison to what has already happened to this planet numerous times before we even were in existence and will certainly happen again causing our extinction. I don't worry about these ridiculous theories. When we're all freezing our asses off four years from now we'll wish like hell we had global warming. Later...

It always amazes me that people think they know what hasn't happened yet.

r

I suggest you check out Jared Diamond's book - "Collapse."

The subtitle,"How Societies Choose To Fail Or Succeed," points us in the right direction.

Rick...the destruction of useful land & water has happened before. Easter Island, the lost Mayan civilaization, Greenland's Viking experimental society, Iceland's successful eco-turn-around, etc, it's in there, explaining how a ppl can succeed or fail as a society by their handling of their environment. It isn't only global warming that we need to be concerned about.

Kramer's point of the poisoning of our ppl by the misuse of chemicals is something we need to take seriously. Much of our land & ground water has been poisoned by improper management, by our search for easy money, by neglect, & by outright eco-terrorism, in our own country.

In Montana, there are huge areas of land where you don't want to stand near the water, because of improper mining practices that took place over 100 years ago.

Our footprint on this planet is larger than any other creature's, & the effects of our mistakes often have horrible irreversible consequences that make life intolerable for innumerable species.

You're preachin' to the choir, babe, but thanks for the book suggestion. Someone told me yesterday about a book called, "Lies My Teacher Told Me". Sounds like it should be required reading.

What I think is sad is that the population of America seems to be divided into two factions: those who trust the government, and those who don't. It shouldn't be like that.

And now, back to our story . . .

r

I feel it's more complex than trusting government or not. I dont thats why I stash arms and amunition like a patriot from 1776.
Yet the eco argument often is preached in such simple terms like drowning polar bears or dont eat meat. That those of us with a larger veiw of the complexity of our earth's systems really get lost in the shuffle.
I for one, would love a return to agrariea, and the barter systems of old.
I dont think its feasable when people in general are more interested in the tatoos they get than the foods they eat.

Life is COMPLICATED. The interaction of humans and the environment is COMPLICATED. The earth and the solar system is COMPLICATED. When you get right down to it we really DON'T HAVE A CLUE. WE"RE A BUNCH OF DUMBASSES. There's WAY TOO MANY FACTORS FOR US TO BE ABLE TO ACCURATELY PREDICT ANYTHING. To pay someone millions of dollars to expound on an unproven theory (Al Gore is laughing all the way to the bank) is INSANE. Just like we paid people who gave speeches before Y2K. I need to think of a really scary scenario and then go on a multi millon dollar speaking tour. Are we under a yellow, orange, or red terror alert? Have any of you duct taped your houses yet? Is the ozone hole getting larger these days? Do we all need to apply sunblock to our entire bodies each day? How many feet have the oceans risen this year? Are the polar bears extinct yet? Are we going to have a bunch of hurricanes like Katrina this year? Have you reduced your carbon footprint yet? I just need to go fishing more often and not worry about stuff like this. Later...