I agree with Craig and Joe, for me there is no doubt you can accomplish your task of creating YOUR band. Hiring musicians is common practice. Maybe you won't convince a 35 year old drummer whos been around the block, but instead you'll probably find a 22 year old, in the height of his game, technique, motivation, curiosity that might make a great match.
I understand your vision but you shouldn't be too direct on the minimal-creative-input part. Craigs idea and classified ad, the serious one, is right on target.
What fisherman Bob said is kind-of extreme but portrays the attitude you should adopt. Unless you are absolutely certain of every note, effect, voicing, arrangement etc in your songs you should always keep an eye out on what the other musicians can add. Cause they will add a little bend here, a subtle drum roll there. And if it makes the song sound better to your ears, go for it, or at least consider it.
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Well, okay then, how about this: One of the main reasons I began recording my material was to have them for band members to learn. I went through a phase, during several collaboration bands, where I couldn't get my ideas played. The reason was that I was having trouble communicating those ideas. I would learn their songs, but my songs were constantly getting shelved. To solve that problem, I began recording them (although I rarely do demos-the songs are really more complete ideas). I essentially became a solo act because it became my responsibility to make those ideas come to life.
Now, I want to promote and market those recordings, primarily through live performances. I personally feel that, if I were the consumer who had purchased my CD, I would want to hear those songs sound pretty much the same "live".
The question is, under those circumstances, am I being unrealistic to expect band members to ACCURATELY learn those songs? Certainly, I understand that everyone plays differently (and has their own style), but to what extent can I expect them to faithfully recreate (perform) the songs?
My last band only wanted to know what key each section was in, and then wanted me to nod or wave at them when the song changed! Needless to say, the songs were unrecognizable...
Now, I want to promote and market those recordings, primarily through live performances. I personally feel that, if I were the consumer who had purchased my CD, I would want to hear those songs sound pretty much the same "live".
The question is, under those circumstances, am I being unrealistic to expect band members to ACCURATELY learn those songs? Certainly, I understand that everyone plays differently (and has their own style), but to what extent can I expect them to faithfully recreate (perform) the songs?
My last band only wanted to know what key each section was in, and then wanted me to nod or wave at them when the song changed! Needless to say, the songs were unrecognizable...

lol
Had a smile when i finished your sentence. haha I can so imagine those guys asking you the key to each section, and you thinking "here we go again.."
Well, then use classified ads like Craig proposed and just be patient. It's like buying a new guitar. I always go for second hand, and doing that leads to watching ads everyday praying to find that Telecaster USA deluxe in my price range, not too far from my home, with no absurd scratches, preferably sunburst. In other words I count on luck, and on karma, cause I like to believe I've got the good kind
Seriously you just have to start looking for those musicians, audition, check them out, do rehearsals, hire and fire at will till you find the right guys for the job. Just explain your vision and impose it clearly from the beginning.
At first, seeing how you wanna build your project, relationships might be professional if there is money involved.
Simple question one: Don't you have musician friends in your area? Suppose you already thought of that but still.
simple question 2: Do you have some of those tracks uploaded somewhere. I'm starting to get curious
Had a smile when i finished your sentence. haha I can so imagine those guys asking you the key to each section, and you thinking "here we go again.."
Well, then use classified ads like Craig proposed and just be patient. It's like buying a new guitar. I always go for second hand, and doing that leads to watching ads everyday praying to find that Telecaster USA deluxe in my price range, not too far from my home, with no absurd scratches, preferably sunburst. In other words I count on luck, and on karma, cause I like to believe I've got the good kind

Seriously you just have to start looking for those musicians, audition, check them out, do rehearsals, hire and fire at will till you find the right guys for the job. Just explain your vision and impose it clearly from the beginning.
At first, seeing how you wanna build your project, relationships might be professional if there is money involved.
Simple question one: Don't you have musician friends in your area? Suppose you already thought of that but still.
simple question 2: Do you have some of those tracks uploaded somewhere. I'm starting to get curious

Blog for touring bands:
http://gigdoggy.com
http://gigdoggy.com
joseph6 wrote:Well, okay then, how about this: One of the main reasons I began recording my material was to have them for band members to learn. I went through a phase, during several collaboration bands, where I couldn't get my ideas played. The reason was that I was having trouble communicating those ideas. I would learn their songs, but my songs were constantly getting shelved. To solve that problem, I began recording them (although I rarely do demos-the songs are really more complete ideas). I essentially became a solo act because it became my responsibility to make those ideas come to life.
Now, I want to promote and market those recordings, primarily through live performances. I personally feel that, if I were the consumer who had purchased my CD, I would want to hear those songs sound pretty much the same "live".
The question is, under those circumstances, am I being unrealistic to expect band members to ACCURATELY learn those songs? Certainly, I understand that everyone plays differently (and has their own style), but to what extent can I expect them to faithfully recreate (perform) the songs?
My last band only wanted to know what key each section was in, and then wanted me to nod or wave at them when the song changed! Needless to say, the songs were unrecognizable...
No, you are the boss...period. If the boss aint happy then no one is happy.You are paying these guys to play what you want played. Good, experienced performers understand this and should present your music in a way that reflects you. Usually this does not remove the artistic quality that these guys can lend. But if my guys can't make me sound good...if they can't make me stand out or play the way I expect them to play, they won't get the job. Also, they gotta feel free to do their thang when the time arises. But it is I, who decides that time. This is what it means to be a professional musician.
It doesn't matter if the members like your work or not. They have to appreciate their job.
Good, experienced performers understand this and should present your music in a way that reflects you
absolutely
Blog for touring bands:
http://gigdoggy.com
http://gigdoggy.com
Yes, but as I've stated before live performance will be variable.
I think I see what it is you seek Joe. Right on bro. To me live performance of "my" or in our bands case "our" music is the epitomy of what music is supposed to be. One reason I am in resistance to us doing covers, unless we play it "our way".
I think I see what it is you seek Joe. Right on bro. To me live performance of "my" or in our bands case "our" music is the epitomy of what music is supposed to be. One reason I am in resistance to us doing covers, unless we play it "our way".
#37032 by RhythmMan
Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:15 pm
Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:15 pm
Yeah, live performances will vary.
But the song has to recognizable.
If you work with other musicians on any music, it has to be recognizable.
If they will not learn and attempt to accurartely portray a song, there's something fundamentally wrong there.
.
They need the patience to listen to the songs as written.
They need the patience to FIRST learn your songs exactly as written.
They need to prove that they can play a song as written, before anything.
If they refuse - then either they don't like your music, or they are not good enough. Either reason is grounds for dismissal.
.
And they need the patience to practice.
They need to practice with the group, yes . . ..
But they need to also practice by themselves. (I've had it with those who never practice by themselves. They come to each session - no better than last. Same mistakes, same places . . .)
.
If you work with musicians who practice by themselves at home - a funny thing happens: the songs keep sounding better and better.
.
If they refuse to learn - then you are mis-matched.
You should seriously attempt to find someone with a more professional attitude to replace them.
It sounds like you're working with people who want to 'wing it,' and just jam.
If you want to play your specific songs correctly, then you need to stop the band practice long enough to ensure they know exactly what they're doing.
If they just want to 'fake it,' you're probablly a mis-match.
.
But don't try to change the musicians as people - it will not work. If they're too lazy, then you'll have to wait until you find someone who is willing to learn.
Those people are out there . . .
But the song has to recognizable.
If you work with other musicians on any music, it has to be recognizable.
If they will not learn and attempt to accurartely portray a song, there's something fundamentally wrong there.
.
They need the patience to listen to the songs as written.
They need the patience to FIRST learn your songs exactly as written.
They need to prove that they can play a song as written, before anything.
If they refuse - then either they don't like your music, or they are not good enough. Either reason is grounds for dismissal.
.
And they need the patience to practice.
They need to practice with the group, yes . . ..
But they need to also practice by themselves. (I've had it with those who never practice by themselves. They come to each session - no better than last. Same mistakes, same places . . .)
.
If you work with musicians who practice by themselves at home - a funny thing happens: the songs keep sounding better and better.
.
If they refuse to learn - then you are mis-matched.
You should seriously attempt to find someone with a more professional attitude to replace them.
It sounds like you're working with people who want to 'wing it,' and just jam.
If you want to play your specific songs correctly, then you need to stop the band practice long enough to ensure they know exactly what they're doing.
If they just want to 'fake it,' you're probablly a mis-match.
.
But don't try to change the musicians as people - it will not work. If they're too lazy, then you'll have to wait until you find someone who is willing to learn.
Those people are out there . . .
Right on, guys! You all have helped me get my focus. And the search goes on...
Gigdoggy, to answer your questions:
#1. Unfortunately, my musician friends were the guys I was talking about.
#2. Sure, I have a few tunes up on my page here, and even more on myspace. Take a listen and let me know what ya think.
Thanks again, to everyone!
Gigdoggy, to answer your questions:
#1. Unfortunately, my musician friends were the guys I was talking about.
#2. Sure, I have a few tunes up on my page here, and even more on myspace. Take a listen and let me know what ya think.

Thanks again, to everyone!

#37134 by Craig Maxim
Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:29 pm
Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:29 pm
I thought you had specified "serious" musicians, and not just "musicians". Among serious musicians, there are professionals who have been doing this for awhile, and may have given up "the dream" by now, but still enjoy playing, and want to paid for it. There are inumerable of these guys out there. It is usually the young musicians that are still idealistic and believe in "the dream". They may or may not, be "serious". And whatever people may "say", it is my belief that on average, you are going to find more musicians willing to work for pay, than creativity being the bonus. Once again, there are many millions of 30's and up musicians, who have given up the prospect of "making it" big, as age, family and bills have taken hold and become priorities. They don't want to give up playing for good though, and many would love to play for any worthwhile project, especially if they are being compensated.
If you take ALL musicians as a whole, I'm still willing to bet that a majority would play for money over having creative input being the main draw. If they have a choiice, side by side, I think they tip the scale slightly, to getting paid.
And Joe...
Don't EVER apologogize for desiring to be a solo artist. These are different things. I have no doubt that I have what it takes to be a solo artist, but I like the idea of making it as a band. Brotherhood, creative input coming from all the band members. So, that is the path I am on. But if I got fed up enough with the band not taking this as seriously as I do, then you can bet your ass, I'll pursue a solo career.
There is no right or wrong. It is a choice you make in the beginning, and if you are upfront about your goals, there is nothing to apologize for. There are bands. There are solo artists. Some bands make it, and then the members do solo projects, etc... Others stay solo, or stay as bands.
Personally, I think you SHOULD go the solo artist route. Fronting a band is fine, but I think your best shot lies in getting your personal name out there, because whether you achieve great success as a solo artist or not, with your name out there, it gets you the attention you need, and songwriting, is certainly something you can fall back on, or achieve in conjunction with your artistic career. It may be that you achieve more success selling your music, and find a nice medium level success in performing. But to have it all available to you, going solo is the best route. There is no confusion then, who is the creative force, who writes the songs, arranges them, etc...
I wish you the best of luck!
If you take ALL musicians as a whole, I'm still willing to bet that a majority would play for money over having creative input being the main draw. If they have a choiice, side by side, I think they tip the scale slightly, to getting paid.
And Joe...
Don't EVER apologogize for desiring to be a solo artist. These are different things. I have no doubt that I have what it takes to be a solo artist, but I like the idea of making it as a band. Brotherhood, creative input coming from all the band members. So, that is the path I am on. But if I got fed up enough with the band not taking this as seriously as I do, then you can bet your ass, I'll pursue a solo career.
There is no right or wrong. It is a choice you make in the beginning, and if you are upfront about your goals, there is nothing to apologize for. There are bands. There are solo artists. Some bands make it, and then the members do solo projects, etc... Others stay solo, or stay as bands.
Personally, I think you SHOULD go the solo artist route. Fronting a band is fine, but I think your best shot lies in getting your personal name out there, because whether you achieve great success as a solo artist or not, with your name out there, it gets you the attention you need, and songwriting, is certainly something you can fall back on, or achieve in conjunction with your artistic career. It may be that you achieve more success selling your music, and find a nice medium level success in performing. But to have it all available to you, going solo is the best route. There is no confusion then, who is the creative force, who writes the songs, arranges them, etc...
I wish you the best of luck!
#37311 by @Ace Entertainment
Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:08 pm
Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:08 pm
I would suggest, and its pretty common place in the industry now, to play in front of tracks. If you want to maintain full control over your music, every aspect, then you cannot have other people involved. You've already been recording all the parts, take the tracked version, remove the lead vocal and whatever instrument part you play live, and there is your backup band. Its exactly how you want it, and you fill in the rest live. You don't charge as much for such a performance, but you keep all the money for yourself. You also maintain full creative control. What you never get, and you would never get it from live musicians hired to be automitons, is that live crowd buzz that makes you feel the music and extend a song live just because the feeling is right. But if you believe that the audience wants to come see a live version of the same thing they hear on the cd, then fronting tracks is for you.
#37313 by @Ace Entertainment
Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:23 pm
Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:23 pm
I think the biggest change in the music industry, stemming from the accessability of home recording equipment at reasonable prices, is the lack of dedication to the art of music and the dedication to the dollar. People see artists like Soulja Boi Tell'em, a sixteen year old, makes it on the national scene while artists like the Eagles struggle to stay in the country charts when they used to dominate the rock charts. It is very easy to think that you can put something together for yourself. Many get it in their heads that they don't need anyone else's help.
Joe, as a producer and someone who's been in the business for a long time, I have to honestly say that your music has potential, but you need to let others give you input. Music developed by only one person has the potential to appeal to only those who are like minded. The music development and marketing process demands more input. Without it, you don't get marketable music. IF, and only IF, you have a fan base large enough to make all the decisions yourself, I will gladly stand corrected, however, if there are not at least 5000 people willing to purchase your cd as it is now, then you are in need of the input of other musicians.
Don't get me wrong, I encourage you to try to prove me wrong, but I spend many hours a week with artists who, without a little input here and there from outside sources, would not be developing the fan base they are. They are not at 5000 each yet either, its a long grueling process to get that many people to spend their money on your music.
If you are a serious musician, you will continue to look for like minded musicians. Many instrumentalists have become very sceptical because of the industry changing the way it has. They want some assurances that they are not wasting their time. You will find that money is the best assurance, however, anyone can play for money. You need to find someone to play with you that has a passion for your style and the ability to help to fully develop it.
Joe, as a producer and someone who's been in the business for a long time, I have to honestly say that your music has potential, but you need to let others give you input. Music developed by only one person has the potential to appeal to only those who are like minded. The music development and marketing process demands more input. Without it, you don't get marketable music. IF, and only IF, you have a fan base large enough to make all the decisions yourself, I will gladly stand corrected, however, if there are not at least 5000 people willing to purchase your cd as it is now, then you are in need of the input of other musicians.
Don't get me wrong, I encourage you to try to prove me wrong, but I spend many hours a week with artists who, without a little input here and there from outside sources, would not be developing the fan base they are. They are not at 5000 each yet either, its a long grueling process to get that many people to spend their money on your music.
If you are a serious musician, you will continue to look for like minded musicians. Many instrumentalists have become very sceptical because of the industry changing the way it has. They want some assurances that they are not wasting their time. You will find that money is the best assurance, however, anyone can play for money. You need to find someone to play with you that has a passion for your style and the ability to help to fully develop it.
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