General Music Chat

Okay, folks, I'm looking for lots of input here. Lemme give ya the scenario:

I'm organizing a band to perform and promote my music. I want to make it clear that this is the "Joe Show". In short, this is about my songs, my performance, my promotion...and before y'all rip me a new one for being some kinda jerk, remember that this is (pretty much) hypothetical.

SO here's the question: What do I offer for motivation? If YOU were in the position of considering joining MY backing band, what do you want to hear? How do I sell you on this to the point that you would be willing to make some kind of commitment to the project?

The downsides to this deal are probably pretty obvious...For the most part, the creative aspect is out the door. Song selection is also eliminated.
This is not a "group Effort."

I know that someone's gonna say..."PAY ME! A LOT!" Wish I could. Now that's out of the way, hit me with some alternatives...

Is it originals ?
What would it take me to join that band ?
How about a bus ticket ??

Really though......You only need to find musicans with the
right attitude. Knowing your place in a band makes stuff
very easy. If its originals, better yet. Sometimes the best
musicians are the ones who know when NOT to play.

Good luck !

Okay, folks, I'm looking for lots of input here. Lemme give ya the scenario:

I'm organizing a band to perform and promote my music. I want to make it clear that this is the "Joe Show". In short, this is about my songs, my performance, my promotion...and before y'all rip me a new one for being some kinda jerk, remember that this is (pretty much) hypothetical.

SO here's the question: What do I offer for motivation? If YOU were in the position of considering joining MY backing band, what do you want to hear? How do I sell you on this to the point that you would be willing to make some kind of commitment to the project?

The downsides to this deal are probably pretty obvious...For the most part, the creative aspect is out the door. Song selection is also eliminated.
This is not a "group Effort."

I know that someone's gonna say..."PAY ME! A LOT!" Wish I could. Now that's out of the way, hit me with some alternatives...

Joe, I'm working for you, man. It is my job to support you regardless of the pay...or non-pay. I will express my creativity but you have the final say. Chances are I will have your respect and you will allow my "poetic justice" to exist. Even if you did not allow me to express my ( ugh I can't think of the word...senior moment ), it is your prject and I do my best to make you sound good.

I had a group of guys that did exactly that for me. They were all better musicians but they gave me respect, they read my mind plus they enjoyed working with me. Hypothetically, don't hire anyone without that kind of work ethic...you will be miserable.

Hey Joseph,

Explaining this could get complicated...Ive worked extensively in the collective band effort , which fits most all of us,AND the single artist promotion ...Most people who wanna do what your wanting to do have a publisher, manager, publicist,showcases lined up etc so all the side musican has to do is learn tunes and play his instrument. ( Thats fun for a while especially at 400-500/wk salary and 300$retainer pay...It doesnt suck.. ).I said all that to say, thats what I would have to see before joining something thats gonna be pretty much a job...I can sherk all MY desire to have any input/say so, creative consultantry,business decisions etc, BUT it better pay well, and had a forseeable future and the person better really have their CHEE together..Its always been a trade off ..The $$$ seems to make up for the longing to create and be a part.AND,This situation has the least amount of drama and the freedom to come and go is great!!!...Now you know that ANY serious well seasoned muscian with a life time progressing up thru the ranks in their chops and creativity, theory knowledge etc will by nature wanna be part of EVERYTHING sooner or later..Thats when they get fired, pair up with another disgruntled player and quit...Ive never seen this type of band last very long with the same memebers so I would be ready to call the union hall often..I know it seems like Im being a smart ass, but I mean all this in a professional way....Just tryin to let you see my experiences thru my eyes as a side man in 2 different perspectives...Hey , I know 2 guys to this DAY that are still doing what your doing..They're happy, but admittedly DO go thru alotta musicians AND dont forget , there are those that dont want the full memeber responsibilty We use to call them JOBBERS back in the day..The union was full of them...Maybe Im lookin at this from too much of a WORKING stand point...Man , I even like your material, Play keys on it often as Ive told you about in previous post, BUT I would have at least creative consultant rights to be in a project like your decribing.

Like it or hate it , Thats my story...

John

If they are working for free, it's gonna be more difficult. Especially if they have little to no creative input. Are you writing and arranging EVERY part? Otherwise why do they get no creative input?

If you will be doing paying gigs, then it will not be that difficult to form a band behind you. Many, many musicians are looking to get paid. And surprisingly, 50 to 100 bucks will make most of them happy, unless they are used to being paid union scale in a wedding band.

Also... it will be clear what the project is about, if you name it the Joseph Binns Band, or Joseph Binns and the Dreamers, or whatever.

Really, all you can offer them, is the prospect that they will eventually be gigging regularly, and being paid for it. Otherwise they won't want to sacrifice for something, they don't believe will benefit them equally to you. The exception to this would be sub-par musicians who are just happy to be playing anywhere, or musicians who really believe in you, and hope that you will take them along for the entire ride, if you become successful.

But with gas prices as they are, the money is becoming more important.

What happened to the band you said you were going to be playing with?

Sorry, Joe. I don't think that works. They might be nice and play along for a month or two, but then they'll break down n tell you "Well, I don't like this. I got no say, and I'm always second row no matter what. I'm out."
Doesn't matter how good you are.

write your song's. practice practice practice till they're as perfect as you can get em then record em. start pitching them. If your stuff is strong enough, you'll get representation and let someone else fill your line up for you!
option 2: get rich n pay em
otherwise deal w/the heartache n do it the old fashioned slow way. with 50/50 cover's and paying gig's

Okay, folks, I'm looking for lots of input here. Lemme give ya the scenario:

I'm organizing a band to perform and promote my music. I want to make it clear that this is the "Joe Show". In short, this is about my songs, my performance, my promotion...and before y'all rip me a new one for being some kinda jerk, remember that this is (pretty much) hypothetical.

SO here's the question: What do I offer for motivation? If YOU were in the position of considering joining MY backing band, what do you want to hear? How do I sell you on this to the point that you would be willing to make some kind of commitment to the project?

The downsides to this deal are probably pretty obvious...For the most part, the creative aspect is out the door. Song selection is also eliminated.
This is not a "group Effort."

I know that someone's gonna say..."PAY ME! A LOT!" Wish I could. Now that's out of the way, hit me with some alternatives...

Well Joe-

I can only answer your questions with a recent story-

I was browsing the ads and came across a singer looking for a band. After reading through the profile and swapping a few emails with her, here's what I came back with:

She's a singer/songwriter
Looking for a band to back her
Her materials, songs, etc.
Band named after her
She's looking to make it big
And get a recording deal
It's all about her
And the band would get dropped in favor of session musicians onc3e a contract gets signed and she starts professionally recording and touring.

So WTF is in it for ME, as a musician? Nothing. Sounds like your offering the same, so to answer your question, there's probably nothing you could say to get me on board.

No offense meant, just telling you how I see it.

Well, Joe, for me, the deal would be that I'd do it for you if you did it for me.

That would work well enough, I suppose.

Then again, I just spent the last 4 hours on a roof in 95 degree weather, & I'm on my customer's 'puter...it's possible that I'm suffering from heat stroke, & I don't know what I'm getting into.

Stiill, in my diminished capacity, I think that's fair enough.

(Did I mention that he made me some KILLER marnagritas? Talk about yer diminished capacity!)

Email me. I'd spend some time in the studio for ya, if you buy the dinner afterwards.

SO here's the question: What do I offer for motivation? If YOU were in the position of considering joining MY backing band, what do you want to hear? How do I sell you on this to the point that you would be willing to make some kind of commitment to the project?

You'd have to wear a Pink TuTu like Cheech Marin..

ROFL Cheech. Good one!

Wow! Some fantastic responses, guys. There's a lot of good points, and it would take me too long to respond to each one, so let me dial in my deal a little more and tell me what ya think. Again, this is just a theory, so help me out!

THE UPSIDE:
1. Paying gigs-Aside from a small percentage (I'm thinking 10%) which goes to me, the band splits the rest. Example: A $500 gig. I make $50. The rest of the band (I'm figuring on four other musicians) split the remaining $450 ($112.50 per member). Yes, No?

2. Merchandise profit sharing-nothing really set in stone there yet, but I'm open to it.

3. Studio experience/credits-as I've said before, I usually pay about $50 per hr in the studio. This band would not only be my performance band, but also my studio band. I cover all recording expenses. There is also the long term possibility of collaborating on a future studio project, and I cover the expenses.

4. Marketing-Members are welcome to use My band's website, etc. to promote any solo (or otherwise "non-Joe") projects (within reason).

THE DOWNSIDE:

The idea of this deal is to help me fulfill my "vision" (as cheesy as that sounds). I can't allow that to be sidetracked. Creative input would be pretty limited, at least at first. It's basically "Here's the song, learn it."

I would never pay for rehearsals. Never. Too many times, I've been in bands where someone wants to spend valuable practice time talking about their girlfriend or their motorcycle. The bottom line is that when I get paid, YOU get paid.

There's probably more, and feel free to point them out...

A few of you mentioned that there wouldn't be enough creative input. I respect that, and I might even have a difficult time doing it for very long myself-being that my musical focus has always been the creative end. I feel the same way when playing in cover bands, which my project would more or less be (except the "covers" are my originals).

Anyway, a little more food for thought...keep those suggestions coming!

P.S. Craig, that band is killing me! ...Philby, I'd be glad to back ya up!...Shredd, can I at least wear a Lone Ranger mask with the tutu?

Well, it seems you're pretty much looking for hired guns. That being the case, I would want a semi-long term contract offering (in addition to the payment conditions you described) exclusive playing rights to any of your performances of the songs I was hired for. For example, if I recorded a song for you, I have dibs on playing any gigs in which you plan to perform that song. The contract would mostly be to protect myself from the above situation where the singer got big and then dumped the band for studio musicians. With a contract, I would be assured a place in that studio band as well after you're picked up by a label.

Basically, since I don't know you, I can't just trust you right off the bat for no reason. A decent contract would (I think) help build that trust for you new band-mates - since you're showing a little bit of respect and loyalty to them right from the get-go.

If you're planning on "making it" (even just locally) I would want to be assured a piece of the action, since I'm sacrificing a lot of integrity. After all, it wouldn't help a working musicians rep to just get dumped after a month. lol

I would also be willing to offer you the same in return. You mentioned promoting side projects on your site - side projects I would give you first choice as to whether or not you wanted to be a part of it. Doing something like that on a song by song basis would build up quite a catalog of tunes with each person owning the rights to their own material. This way, I think after a while, we would just do everyone's songs together at a gig, since we all just worked on each others side projects. lol

Basically, "my" tunes would be released on my album, "your" songs would be released on your album, etc. But since we all worked on everything, we could do all the songs at a gig. Kinda like the way the Eagles do it nowadays. lol

Those are some very good ideas, man. I love the idea of a contract, because it would protect me as well as the other parties. I'll admit, I have shied away from the idea previously-I did attempt a comtract in an early band of mine, and basically had to drop the subject after two of the members threatened to quit, and at that point, we hadn't even negotiated anything! They were just non-commital.

As far as the playing rights, I'm a little hazy about how that would work. The idea that, for example, the drummer that plays on one of my songs has first dibs on the gig where that song is to be played (you worded that much better than I), well, that's fine with me. Honestly, my plan is to keep the same musicians-although, I do understand that people get abruptly dumped from projects, frequently!

The reason I'm hazy about it is because, not too long ago, I had a very similar discussion with a drummer. However, he went on to "inform" me that, because he would have played on the song, it would give him rights to partial ownership.

Uh, I don't think so. I really don't want to get into another copyright discussion, but I really have to draw the line somewhere. "So you want me to pay you, allow you to have creative input, and hand over a portion of the controlling rights to the song? Well, SURE!!"

Sorry, more deep seeded aggression.

Well, it doesn't seem THAT bad in your second post. If you would've sent me this instead... I still wouldn't accept it. Hear me out; don't panic.
You gotta do like the media and the guv do. Make the "downside" blurry. Don't emphasize on it and make it seem like nothing compared to the bonuses.

Try it out. You won't lose anything.