United States

No, Phil. Artists/Bands who are "registered" with BMI get their royalties from them.. which come from the licensing fees that clubs pay. So, indirectly, they do get money from that. Not much though.
The problem with that beach club thing is that they didn't have a licence from BMI to let others cover.
Bout a year ago, I learned to ask before we performed: "Do you have the licences? What is the licence's name?" .. Not that I knew at the time what the name was, but if the owner starts fumbling and hesitating, I'll know (s)he's bullshitting me. Either way, be careful where you step in.
And, unfortunately, there will always be cover bands.

Dunno where you got the idea that I ever DJ'd. I emphatically deny ever being a DJ, or even attending an event where a DJ played. I have successfully avoided them for my entire life. Ah...no, when I said "I've done it myself," I meant that I've WHINED about it, too! Philbymon

Sorry I misunderstood your statement Listening to your music I should have known better that you are not the type to DJ.

I agree with your list of some of the bands who produces music not suited for dancing.

Peace bro.

Andrew, the bands aren't the ones who get into trouble for doing covers, though, right? It's the bars themselves, isn't it?

How does the original band/composer get royalties from bar venues? I've never given anyone a set list. I'd be happy to, if it were necessary.

If the bar owners had registered with ASCAP instead of BMI, would they have been covered?

It all looks pretty confusing to me. I have no idea how ppl are being "protected," or who's exploiting who, in all of this. It certainly looks like the bar owners are the victims of extortion, at 1st glance, while the composers aren't getting anything in return for thier work.

A scam, if that's the way it is. There is no way you can determine what songs are played nationwide in bars, so who determines which composer will get paid? As songs lose favor with audiences, do the composers continue to get paid even when thier songs are out of style?

I don't see the need for this at all, but evidently someone else does. As long as the songs aren't getting rerecorded & sold to the public, how can all of this be regulated in a fair & just manner?

If I were registered with BMI, & a band covered my work, how would I get paid?

Fretwork - I can see how you got that...LOL

No worries, my friend.

Well there isnt a lack of gigs around here..


I sing kereoke all the time.... what is wrong with it?

I think it is fun.

Karaoke, like DJ's, take gigs out of the musicians' hands, & therefore both are a target for my ire.

I say to hell with the pre-recorded crapola - use musicians & sing to thier work!

Of course this means using sight-reading musicians... ...guess I'd still be outta work!

After reading through this, I felt compelled to throw in what I'm thinking (as usual).

Karaoke is basically random people (bear in mind I didn't say singers...) singing your songs and the artists (could be you) get royalties n whatnot.
People tell others bout this certain song. They said it's a great song and they should sing it too. They try it and they like it. They wanna listen to the original. They get to know the band/artist and they're fans. And so on. It's not as bad as you think. It actually draws more people into music.

DJs, on the other hand, with their turntables n whatnot, made up a whole genre of music. It may be good music in your eyes.. ears, but not in mine. Nothing like real instruments with the least effects.
Having said that, I like it when DJs are integrated in bands. For example, Incubus, a funk/alt rock band, had a DJ for years. He toured with them and recorded in the studio. It added another dimension to the funk touch in the band. So, on its own, they're really not that cool. Imo ofcourse.

Might be the longest post I've written here. Here I'll light a doobie for myself.

PS. First day of Summer 08 for me. Amen.

Yep. WuT Him Sed ! 'Cept Im gonna have a coffee instead of a doobie.
Nothing sez more about the sad state of musical affairs when
kids line up and fight for fake guitars attached to vidiot boxes
instead of playing the real thing.



Hale Bop..............take me away

Between XBox, TIVO, Pay-per-view, Netfliix, Playstation, YouTube, myspace, etc...nobody wants to leave the house anymore to see live music. Unless it is some superstar/has-been from the 80s. Then you get to pay over $100 for a ticket. Whoopee.

Seriously, I got back into the music thing after a long layoff and the state of local music here (Louisville, KY) is sad. Cover bands are the only ones making any money, and haven't submitted to that genre yet.

Peace,
Steve

Philby,

I think that your first post in response to this thread was right on the mark. I bitched about DJ's a lot myself in the past, but have come to realize that they fill a useful niche, and never really replaced "good" live music. If you have a good live act together, and you have some venues in your local area, there's no reason why you shouldn't be out giggin'.


Howlin'

Time to dissect your post, Phil.

The bands aren't the ones who get into trouble for doing covers, though, right? It's the bars themselves, isn't it?

No, the cover bands should NOT be in trouble, but you never know what they come up with to drag in their mess. So, I stay on the safe side.
Yes, the bars/venues/clubs should be fully responsible due to the lack of the appropriate licences.

How does the original band/composer get royalties from bar venues? I've never given anyone a set list. I'd be happy to, if it were necessary.

If I were registered with BMI, & a band covered my work, how would I get paid?

Maybe my last post wasn't clear. I type out a lot of thoughts at once. I may be wrong, but here's what I've been told by pro performing acts:
Artist "registers" with BMI. BMI collects $ from venue through the licences. BMI gives a small part.. VERY small part of the $ to artist.

If the bar owners had registered with ASCAP instead of BMI, would they have been covered?

Yes, I strongly believe so.

how can all of this be regulated in a fair & just manner?

It's kinda like food inspectors that go around in restaurant's kitchens and whatnot. There are people that check up on you. Make sure you have the right licences, renewed and all that happy shyt. Ofcourse, nothing is 100% legal, fair or just.

Hey Franny, I read that article. I've heard similar stories from barowners here in K.C. There's this real small dive down the street from me who had a visit from a BMI agent years ago. They decided to eliminate having bands at all, couldn't afford the BMI license. I'd like to know what percent of the fees collected by BMI actually are paid to the artists that wrote the song. It seems like the net effect of all this crap is most likely that the artist is probably making LESS MONEY. Cover bands are in effect PROMOTING the music of the artists they cover. I've been asked numerous times who wrote a certain song we performed. If it's a Clapton song or whomever I usually tell them to get the CD, it's hot. Seems like to me all this snooping and subsequent lawsuits must have a negative net effect on the music business. I'm 100% for people being sued or arrested for selling pirated tunes. (You can throw the entire country of China in jail for all I care for all their pirating.) A band playing cover tunes in some podunk hole in the wall isn't doing harm to any artist they are covering. For that matter a barowner who hires a DJ or has karaoke in their bar isn't harming the artists either. It's insane for a bar to be charged $9,000 a year for a license to have cover bands perform there. It should be a nominal fee. Maybe for every night a band performs they should be charged $25. This is part and parcel of the burdensome bureaucracy that is becoming our wonderful WASTEFUL government. More red tape everywhere. More rules and regulations. Talk about wasting trees. The paperwork alone must be staggering. I think of all this crap and I get ENRAGED. Why does it have to be so difficult? Why can't we just go play somewhere, make a little money, have a little fun, and NOT WORRY ABOUT THE LEGAL HORSE MANURE? Time to go fishing. Later...

Bob, you are 100% correct. Couldn't have said it better. Hell, bars have to pay this extortion even to have a juke box or to play the radio or TV, although I think it's a smaller fee than the one for live music.

HJ - thanks for noticing.

There was a super-popular band around here about 15 years ago. They get together & do a "reunion" show once a year, & they ALWAYS have a packed house. What's thier secret? They play dance music, & ONLY dance music. They aren't guitar gods or singing divas. They don't blast you out the door with volumes designed for stadiums. They definitely aren't "pretty boys." Hell, they don't even do anything really memorable except play great dance songs. Upbeat stuff like Talking Heads & Clash, & they do it well. Ppl love 'em. The house is always stuffed to capacity, & so is the dance floor. Great energy all around.

My old band "Funk Me, Fester" was a bit like that, only we went in a different direction, musically, going for the more specialized Dead/Phish audience, which drew a more mixed crowd, age-wise, for some reason.

We packed the local places, but I couldn't really get the guys interested enough in playing elsewhere. We could have made some good $ if we had, I'd bet.

Back to the DJ thing, most of the hot night clubs in my area have live music and DJs while the bands take a break. The successful bands play something that people can dance to. In my area the club owner of a pretty hot local spot told me if the crowd cant dance to your band I will not hire you.

If you want to play live then get off your butts and go to the places that you think you want to play and see what works and what doesnt. Ask the owners or booking agents of a club or venue of what they want. If you will do your research and play what works you can get gigs these days. They are out there. Once you get established then you can start building your song list over to what you like to play.

Im an old guy but I love playing AIC Them Bones/Dam That River, we could nail these songs note for note and people just look at you. Turn around and play Play That Funky Music or Get Down Tonight and have the crowds eating out of our hands. I think you have to feed the crowd something they want. Now when we play dance numbers we always play them our way, in fact some might say they are old school heavy metal, but if the words, melody and beat are there people will get up and dance.

The reality is that none of this is rocket science

Hell yea, AIC! \m/
yea that's all I gotta say

... if the words, melody and beat are there people will get up and dance.

The reality is that none of this is rocket science

All of the things mentioned in this thread are valid points. There is so much, in a word, competition for the goods we are selling that the odds are stacked against live music today. jw123's point is the one thing I have seen which seems to be a universal truth. Getting ladies on the dance floor will get guys on the dance floor, sell drinks at the bar, make the venue happy, hopefully put some cash (at least for gas) in your pocket, get a new fan or two and a repeat booking. Hard, frustrating yet rewarding work and that doesn't even touch the subject of music which may not cater to the dancing type.

This is where the "competition" i.e. the www. world is a tool to be embraced whether you have the naughty girls on the dance floor, very dangerous boys thrashing the s*** out of themselves, or someone at home, online checking your stuff out and liking it. There is something for everybody out there. All I'm looking for is a drummer.

We just lost out on a wedding gig because the venue does not allow live bands. Recoreded music IE DJ'S is ok. WTF is up with that?