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#33961 by Craig Maxim
Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:03 am
Shredd6 wrote:
I happen to like Craig and his music. September is one of my favorite songs. I'm a Southern Mischief fan.



Thanks bro...

I happen to like you and your music as well. Burn is one of my favorite songs, and I am most assuredly, a "One Day Broken" fan!

Shredd6 wrote:I actually played a peace "festival" here in the Vegas desert. It was a lot of fun. There was a lot of hippies (young and old), and a LOT of mushrooms and weed. Oddly, everyone liked my morbid acoustic stuff.

Later, I joined in on the biggest weedfest I'd ever been a part of , and played a djembe in a 25-man drum circle (I'm actually pretty good with hand-drums). There were naked chicks dancing around with these ropes with balls of fire on the ends of them. Just a ton of people drinking, smoking, shroomin', getting naked. It was a good time.
A lot of hibachi's too. I got chastized by a Vegan for cooking a steak. apparently I should have been BBQing Bean sprouts.

But if they held it again today, I'd go in a heartbeat. Nobody got paid. It was just a FAT party. It was like a small Burning Man. F**ked 2 chicks in the back of my truck that night.. Never saw them again.



Sounds like an all-around good day. :-)

#33962 by Shredd6
Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:14 am
Craig Maxim wrote:those are the kinds of things that achieve direct, and positive results, and if emulated and expanded, have the best chance of accomplishing a more peaceful world.


Oh.. And naked chicks with fireballs don't ?????


(post approved by the foundation for naked chicks with fireballs..) That's right.. The FNCWF. My new foundation..I'm starting it today. And I'm gonna have a FNCWF rally..

Who want's in on it? It pays nothing, but you get to see boobies.. And fire.

#33963 by Craig Maxim
Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:24 am
@Ace Entertainment wrote:
Believe of me what you will, there are some in this forum that I will hopefully get the opportunity to work with in the future, there are some that I would now go out of my way to hinder the progress of as well, and believe what you want, I do have the connections to do so.



Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!

"Do so" then. Stop my career. LOL


@Ace Entertainment wrote:
I can tell you this...the money an artist would make in 500,000 copies on a national label (thats a gold record for those of you who don't know) an artist on my label will make that same money in just 10,000 copies. Why? LESS OVERHEAD.



Artists on major labels make around $2.00 from the price of each CD sold. 500,000 copies sold would mean One Million Dollars to the artist.

If you fronted the money to record, dupe and package each CD, and took a loss, charging the artist nothing, you would have to sell those 10,000 CD's for $100.00 a piece to equal a million dollars. Is that what you sell them for?

You're an idiot blowing smoke up people's asses, and have NO experience in the music industry on any substantial level, and never will, when you can't perform simple math, and understand the importance of a professional image.

We don't need liars or idiots here, and you sir, are both.

@Ace Entertainment wrote:I don't waste money on fancy websites and stupid useless fluff that means sh*t to the music. But, I'm just a joke. Later.


Sadly, apparently you haven't "wasted" any money on a calculator either.

Fancy websites?

How about just a neat and professional one, which has at least gone through spell check, and used proper capitalization? I can assure you of this, that any serious musician would not take any professed producer or management company seriously, that didn't even bother with insuring their own business website was free of grammatical and spelling errors.

If you are that sloppy about your own career, why would any artist believe you would be less-so about their career?

And using someone else's site to host your artist's music, to avoid higher bandwidth fees from your ISP provider? That's just slimy, not to mention, unprofessional.

Yes. You are a joke.

#33965 by Starfish Scott
Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:01 pm
to all concerned...

1) This is a forum, thus you will get opinions. Do not be surprised!!

2) If you appear to be odd, someone will make note of this and remark about it.

3) If you look shady about anything, see # 2.

4) If you can't handle the heat...

If anyone is serious about contacting "Ace", by all means do so but use his other contacts. Do not solicit him in the forum, as you will open yourself up to scrutiny.

I think he is crooked as the day is long, but that's just because I made a few calls for fun to see what could be gleaned from some folks I already know and trust.

PS: I applaud Craig for speaking his mind, as I do Philbymon. Please do continue to voice your opinion. We all read them and agree or disagree, it matters not.

#33967 by philbymon
Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:08 pm
I've been here for 12-13 weeks. In that time, I've had my character called into question at least 4 times, I've been called a hypocrite or accused of hypocrisy even more times. Why? Because I dared to give my opinion. You regularly attack ppl at thier core whenever they have an opposing viewpoint.

I'm so sure that sans needed you to come & rescue him from my remarks, Maxim. He's a grown man. He can stand for himself. But no, you had to come in & save him, Mr Buttinski. Makes you feel all warm & toasty, does it? It belittles his abilities to defend himself, but you don't think about anything other than you, do you? I didn't chide sans for his views. I got on his case because he was rude. Even he knows that, so why don't you? I happen to like the guy. He's likeable.

In the short time I've gotten to know you, you've proven yourself to be a self-aggrandizing, self-righteous, boorish, bigotted, biased, contentiously mouthy little man. You had a little hissy fit when your great debating skills didn't sway me on a subject. You removed a post when you made a general butt-hole out of yourself. All in a mere 1/4 of a year. I can't imagine what it's like to be around you full-time, & I can surely see why you regularly need to replace musicians in your little band.

I've tried & tried to keep to the moral high ground when I speak with you, but the problem is that it seems to be far, far over your head, & you simply cannot follow suit. You continually must have that argument, & get your digs in wherever you can.

Why is it so important for you that ppl agree with you? Why is it so important for you to start up arguments with others? Why do you so enjoy hurting ppl , or trying to, with your nasty paper cuts of fury?

Rarely have I met anyone as divisive as you. The only thing that's ever appeased you was the stroke, & I'm sick to death of seeing you stroked.

It's time for the question to be asked - are you a musician, or are you a staunch republican who happens to play music? If you're a musician, then for heaven's sake stick to musical subjects & quit trying to get ppl all riled up over your silly little politics. No one cares, Maxim. Get over yourself.

If you're that staunch republican, then go find a good blog to talk with like-minded ppl about your "heavy thoughts."

Whatever you do, I'm sure that most of us would appreciate it greatly if you quit attacking ppl in the forum. You have gotten very old very fast with me, & I see a lot of ppl here that have been here far longer, who are probably just skipping over any of your posts, like I intend to do in the future.

Ace doesn't look like a joke to me. He looks like someone who's just starting up a company. He's doing it his own way. Oh! I forgot! If it isn't your way it's wrong, isn't it?

It seems that many of us don't stand up to Maxim's judgements very well at all. Perhaps we're all wrong, Maxim, & you really ARE the only moral compass that works, eh? Well, I, for one, can live perfectly happily with that.

I don't see you as being a particularly good American, with your never-ending desire for strife. I don't see you as being a particularly good Christian, either. Does that mean that you are a "hypocrite" or just a poser?

I'm just so tired of reading posts from a grown man with the social needs (& skills) of the average 3 year old. Have your fun, Craig. I'll skip over you in the future, as I would any other little bug.

#33968 by Starfish Scott
Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Whoa nellie, I think that could be classified as an OVER-REACTION. lol

Why so bitter? Plenty of people agree to disagree here. Just relax and breathe..

Am I Mr. Butinski>? lol

I have to teach physics today for a bit. I think we'll do some exothermic experimentation with acids and bases in your honor! LMAO

#33969 by Crip2Nite
Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:17 pm
I got a nasty toothache :cry:

#33970 by jw123
Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:39 pm
Craig,

I hate to wade into this debate but I think your math is a little over the top.

I studied music business in college and actually worked in the industry for a while at a pean level. But I did get to look at some of the deals. This was a few years ago when labels actually were making money. If I recall in the early 80s a stock basic contract for a new band started at around 3% of the gross on sales, so a 10 dollar cd would net back 30 cents to an artist. At the time the buzz in the industry was that the Rolling Stones had signed a new contract at around 12% of the gross which off a 10 dollar cd would be 1.20, both of these are a long ways from 2 dollars a unit. You mentioned calculators, maybe you should have yours checked.

I also recall an article a couple of years ago on Steve Vai when he released an independent CD on his own label, I think he said he had to sell somewhere in the neighborhood of 60,000 copies to match what he made off a major label Gold (500,000). So aces math may be a little off too. On the other hand the major release allows an artist a lot more exposure.

Im not the greatest musician in the world and never truelly made a living from music. But I do own and run a couple of business that have been successful enough for me to indulge in my passions which are motorcycles and music.

And on the subject of selling out, What are you doing in the business? All the music business is, is whoring ourselfs out for some pocket change. In my mind the true artist never sells a thing and only plays for free, just records what they want and occasionally give it away. By your actions of doing showcases and trying to get attention for your group, posting music, video all over arent you in some way selling yourself out?

The only 2 folks Ive met on here that dont seem to be selling out are Jimmy and Neanderpaul. They seem pure in just putting together music for the joy of it with no expectation of material rewards. They are the type musicians who might make some kind of musical breakthru. That being said I grew up listening and playing to southern rock and I enjoy your music Craig. You are a great songwriter but sometimes you come on a little strong with your beliefs.

Im with Philby on this. Craigs way isnt the right way for anyone but Craig.

I think most people are here to get some sort of gig, so why do we slam everyone that even trys? I dont get that, but thats just me, if I dont think someones legit I dont slam them cause 2-3 yrs from now they may be in a position to actually help me in some way. Do you think they will after getting roasted? I wouldnt and neither would you.

#33971 by jw123
Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:40 pm
I forgot to add Philby Im in agreement in spite of you not liking Page.

#33973 by Starfish Scott
Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:56 pm
I am enjoying the burning smell of hair...lol

#33974 by @Ace Entertainment
Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:57 pm
Who is the incredible bonehead who said rappers make mad loot? Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!! Because the fans expect their favorite artists to be crazy paid and livin' large, this puts an incredible amount of pressure on the artists to appear wealthy. And it's not just the fans; I can't tell you how many times I've been out with rappers along with people in the industry, and the industry slobs have expected the artists to pick up the dinner check. I've even seen people cop an attitude if the artist doesn't pay for everything. This is small minded and ignorant because the artist is ALWAYS the last to get paid. Everyone gets their cut first: the label, the manager (15%- 20% of all of the artist's entertainment income), the lawyer (by the hour or 5%-10% of the deal), the accountant (by the hour or 5% of all income), and, of course, the IRS (28% to 50% depending on the tax bracket).

Once an artist releases a record, the pressure is on to portray a successful image to fans, friends, families, and people around the way. People expect the artists to be well dressed, drive an expensive car, etc. Think about it. Don't you expect artists "to look like artists?" Would you admire Jay-Z as much if he drove a busted old 1990 Grand Am instead of that beautiful, brand new, top of the line Bentley?

Sadly, when an artist gets signed to a label deal, especially a rap artist, he or she receives somewhere between 8 and 13 points. What that means is 8% to 13% of the retail sales price, after the record label recoups the money it puts out (the advance, the sample clearances, the producer advances, usually half the cost of any videos, any cash outlays for the artists, etc.). The artist has to sell hella units to make any money back. Here's an example of a relatively fair record deal for a new rap artist with some clout in the industry and a terrific negotiating attorney:

ROYALTY RATE: 12%

We're going to assume that there are 3 artists in the group, and that they split everything equally. We're also going to assume that they produce their own tracks themselves.

Suggested retail list price (cassettes) $10.98
less 15% packaging deduction (usually 20%) =$ 9.33
gets paid on 85% of records sold ("free goods") =$7.93

So the artists' 12% is equal to about 96 cents per record sold. In most deals, the producer's 3% comes out of that 12%, but for the sake of brevity, in this example the group produced the whole album, buying no tracks from outside producers, which is rare.

Let's assume that they are a hit and their record goes Gold (although it is rare that a first record blows up like this). Let's also assume they were a priority at their record label and that their label understood exactly how to market them. So they went Gold, selling 500,000 units according to SoundScan (and due to the inaccuracies in SoundScan tracking at the rap retail level, 500,000 scanned probably means more like 600,000 actually sold).
GOLD RECORD = 500,000 units sold x $ .96 = $480,000. Looks like a nice chunk of loot, huh? Watch this. Now the label recoups what they've spent: independent promotion, 1/2 the video cost, some tour support, all those limo rides, all those out of town trips for the artist and their friends, etc.

$480,000
-$100,000 recoupable stuff (NOT advance)
--------
$380,000
-$ 70,000 advance (recording costs)
--------
$310,000

Still sounds OK? Watch... Now, half of the $380,000 stays "in reserve" (accounting for returned items from retail stores) for 2 to 4 years depending on the length specified in the recording contract. So the $70,000 advance is actually subtracted from $190,000 (the other $190,000 is in reserves for 2 years). Now, there's also the artist's manager, who is entitled to 20% of all of the entertainment income which would be 20% of $310,000, or $62,000. Remember, the artist is the last to get paid, so even the manager gets paid before the artist.

So the artists actually receive $19,333 each for their gold album, and in two years when the reserves are liquidated, IF they've recouped, they will each receive another $63,000. IF they've recouped. Guess who keeps track of all of this accounting? The label. Most contracts are "cross-collateralized," which means if the artist does not recoup on the first album, the money will be paid back out of the second album. Also, if the money is not recouped on the second album, repayment can come out of the "in reserve" funds from the first album, if the funds have not already been liquidated.

Even after the reserves are paid, each artist only actually made 50 cents per unit based on this example. The label made about $2.68 per unit. This example also doesn't include any additional production costs for an outside producer to come in and do a re-mix, and you know how often that happens.

So each artist in this group has received a total of about $82,000. After legal expenses and costs of new clothing to wear on stage while touring, etc, each artist has probably made a total of $75,000 before paying taxes (which the artist is responsible for-- remember Kool Moe Dee?). Let's look at the time line now. Let's assume the artists had no jobs when they started this. They spent 4 months putting their demo tape together and getting the tracks just right. They spent another 6 months to a year getting to know who all of the players are in the rap music industry and shopping their demo tape. After signing to a label, it took another 8 months to make an album and to get through all of the label's bureaucracy. When the first single dropped, the group went into promotion mode and traveled all over promoting the single at radio, retail, concerts, and publications. This was another six months. The record label decided to push three singles off the album so it was another year before they got back into the studio to make album number two. This scenario has been a total of 36 months. Each member of the group made $75,000 for a three year investment of time, which averages out to $25,000 per year. In corporate America, that works out to be $12 per hour (before taxes).

OK, so it's not totally hopeless. Since we're using the fantasy of a relatively fair deal, let's look at publishing from a relatively fair perspective. There are mechanical royalties and performance royalties to figure in. Mechanical royalties are the payments that Congress stipulates labels must pay based on copy right ownership and publishing ownership. These payments have nothing to do with recouping, but everything to do with who owns the publishing. Publishing is where the money is in the music business. Suge Knight claims to have started Death Row Records with the money he made from owning Vanilla Ice's publishing for one song: Ice Ice Baby. It may not be true, but it could be. Avatar Records (home of Black Xuede) is financed through the publishing that the CEO has purchased over the years. Although publishing can be quite cumbersome to understand (just when I think I get it, I read something else that makes me realize how little I know about the subject), but the most basic principle is that when an artist puts pen to paper, or makes a beat, the artist owns the publishing. It's that simple. Whoever creates the words or music owns those words or music. Where it gets confusing is all the different ways to get paid on publishing, all the ways to split publishing with other folks, and all the ways artists get screwed out of their publishing. In the 8 years I've been doing this, I have heard so many times, artists say that they don't care about losing a song or two because they can always make a ton more. That's stupidity. It's undervaluing one's ability. That's like saying it's OK to rob me of my cash, I can go to the ATM machine and get more money. Wrong!! It's never right to rob someone. The "I can make more" defense immediately goes out the window when the creator sees someone else make hundreds of thousands of dollars off a song. Every time!! So why not protect yourself in the door?

Bill Brown at ASCAP breaks it down more simply than anyone I've ever heard. He compares publishing with real estate. When you make a song, you are the owner of that property: the landlord. Sometimes you sell off a piece of the land for money (but you NEVER give away your land, right??) and if someone else wants to use your property, or rent it, they have to pay you rent to use it. I love that analogy. It's so crystal clear!

A copyright is proof of ownership of a song, both lyrics and music. If there is a sample in the music, you are automatically giving up part of the song, at the whim of the person who owns the rights to the original song (not necessarily the original artist). In order to "clear the sample," you send your version of the song to the owner of the original composition or whomever owns the publishing (and to the owner of the master, meaning original record label or whomever now owns the master). Then you negotiate the price with those two owners. Some are set in stone and you get to either agree to their price or to remove the sample. On DJ DMD's last album (22: PA Worldwide on Elektra) he spent close to $100,000 in advances and fees due to the sampling on his album. It came out of his upfront monies (advance) and he bears the burden of paying for it all, even though Elektra released and owns the record. Proof of copyright is easy to obtain by registering your song with the copyright office in Washington DC. You call them (202.707.9100) and ask for an SR Form (sound recording). You fill out the form, listing all of the owners, and mail it back to them with a copy of the song (a cassette is good enough) along with the Copyright fee (around $25 or so). This way, if someone steals your song, or a piece of your song, you can sue them for taking it and for your legal fees. With the "poor man's copyright" (mailing your tape to yourself in a sealed envelope with your signature across the sealed flap, and then never opening it when it arrives back to you with a postmark proving the date), you can not sue for damages and it's more difficult to prove your case. The copy right fee may seem like a lot of money to some, but it's nothing compared to what a law suit would cost you.

Performance royalties are money that is paid for the performance of your song. The money is paid based on the percentage of ownership of the song. So if you own 100% of the song, you get the whole check. If you own just the music, which is half the song, then you get half the money. If you own the music with a sample in it that claims half the song, then you get a check for 25%. Ya follow? Performance Rights organizations consist of ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC (which is still quite small). They police the radio stations, clubs, concerts, etc (any place music is played or broadcast), all of whom pay a fee to play the music which the performance rights societies collect and split amongst their members based on the amount of times a record is played. Although the formulas change annually based on play, a Top 10 song played on commercial radio can earn a good chunk of change in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range.

There is another kind of royalty artists receive when their records sell: mechanical royalties. These are paid based upon a pre-set limit placed by Congress which increases automatically every two years. In 1998 and 1999 it was .0715 cents per song, but on January 1, 2000 it increased to .0765 per song. Record labels put caps on mechanical royalties (the slugs) at either 10 songs, 11 songs, or 12 songs, no matter how many songs actually appear on the record, and you get what you negotiate for. Also, there's a slimey little clause that restricts payment of mechanicals (because God knows labels don't make enough money as it is) to anywhere between 75% and 85%. This evil deed is called percentage of statutory rate. Here's the difference those few pennies make as it pertains to an artist's royalty check (I refuse to even consider illustrating the worst bullshit deals such as 10x at 75%) provided they own 100% of the song:

# songs stat mechanical 100,000 sold 250,000 sold 500,000 (Gold) 1,000,000 (Platinum)
11x 85% .6639 per album $66,390 $165,975 $331,950 $663,900
11x 100% .781 per album $78,100 $195,250 $390,500 $781,000

12x 85% .7242 per album $72,420 $181,050 $362,100 $724,200
12x 100% .852 per album $85,200 $426,000 $852,000 $1,704,000

10x 85% .6035 per album $60,350 $150,875 $301,750 $603,500

I based the above chart on the old 1998-1999 rate of .0715 per song, so I could use my friend Fiend as an example. His first album came out in April of 1998 when the stat rate set by Congress was at this rate.

The dollar figure above represents monies due an artist (regardless of recoupment) per album based on ownership of 100% of publishing. So for example, Fiend who is signed to No Limit, provided he owns 100% of his publishing (I can dream can't I?), if his deal gives him 11x rate at 85% (I hate it but it won't kill me) then on his first album, There's One In Every Family, which came out 4/28/98 and sold 565,977 SoundScan units, No Limit would have paid him (hopefully) $378,369.77. If No Limit owns half of Fiend's publishing, he would receive $189,184.88 provided he wrote all of his own songs (which he did, except the verses by other artists who appeared which lowers the ownership percentage and dollar amount) and provided he made all of his own beats (which he did not; he features outside producers on this album like Beats By The Pound).

So there you have it, the real deal on how much money an artist makes. You can subtract out now another 28% to 50% of all income, including show money, (depending on the artist's tax bracket which is determined by how much income was made within any given calendar year) for the IRS who get paid quarterly (hopefully) by the artist's accountant. If the average artist releases a record every two years, then this income must last twice as long... I think about this every time I see my favorite artists flossing in their music videos drinking champagne or every time I see them drive by in a brand new Benz...

#33975 by @Ace Entertainment
Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:03 pm
Believe what you want, that previous post was written by Wendy Day of the Rap Coalition. Not an inexperienced individual.

#33978 by Starfish Scott
Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:26 pm
Although I don't appreciate rap at all, I did enjoy that last post ACE.

If you talk turkey, more goblers will at least cock their heads to say, "is that shop he's talking or conjecture?"

Dazzle us with your brillance, but please don't baffle us with BS.

Getting someone else to talk shop doesn't speak to your professional acumen. No offense Wendy..

PS: I don't care who drives what, if your music sucks.. that's all folks.
Trade your "fancy car" in for a "fancy recording" or just reinvest.

"I got my mind on my money and my money on my mind."

#33981 by Shredd6
Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:39 pm
You're supposed to leave a link to the source when you copy and paste something from another website.

Just saying.

Here.. I'll help you out.

http://xrl.us/bmvnp

Later.
Last edited by Shredd6 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

#33984 by Craig Maxim
Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:02 pm
jw123 wrote:
If I recall in the early 80s a stock basic contract for a new band started at around 3% of the gross on sales, so a 10 dollar cd would net back 30 cents to an artist. At the time the buzz in the industry was that the Rolling Stones had signed a new contract at around 12% of the gross which off a 10 dollar cd would be 1.20, both of these are a long ways from 2 dollars a unit. You mentioned calculators, maybe you should have yours checked.



From ASCAP:

Under the traditional recording agreement, recording artist royalties usually range from 10% to 25% of the suggested retail price for top-line albums

http://www.ascap.com/musicbiz/money-recording.html

My calculator is fine, but you should check your price for CD's which if produced by a Major runs between $12 and $15, making the average price of a CD $13.50. If the artist receives 15% this would amount to $2.02

There are many variables, including the artist's record deal, the price of a CD, whether the artist is also the writer and receives publishing royalties as well, etc...

An average of $2 per CD is a reasonable assessment.

jw123 wrote:I also recall an article a couple of years ago on Steve Vai when he released an independent CD on his own label, I think he said he had to sell somewhere in the neighborhood of 60,000 copies to match what he made off a major label Gold (500,000). So aces math may be a little off too.



A little off? 60,000 or 10,000? That's not a little off bro. That's night and day off. This guy is purporting to represent an artist's career, their CAREER!!! And he doesn't have the correct figures, for so basic an assessment, off the top of his head? This is one of his "selling points" to convince artists to believe in his representation, and he doesn't have anywhere near the correct figures?

Supposedly he is sooooo influential, among his alleged industry friends, that he can end someone's career with a phone call? But he can't arrange for hosting his own music files on a paid server? He represents artists and used to be national, but now he "Doesn't want to go national" as a personal choice? Is he only going to sell their CD's locally then? Many of his statements are simply false, if not irrational.

jw123 wrote:And on the subject of selling out, What are you doing in the business?


Well, nothing now bro. My career is about to be derailed by a wannabe "promoter" who has money to burn but can't afford ISP bandwidth for music files on his own site.


jw123 wrote: In my mind the true artist never sells a thing and only plays for free, just records what they want and occasionally give it away.



Artists of all forms, have a long history of being paid for their skills, from painters to composers to modern bands. Unless you are independently wealthy, it is difficult, if not impossible, to devote yourself FULLY to your craft without being able to sustain yourself through it.

jw123 wrote:By your actions of doing showcases and trying to get attention for your group, posting music, video all over arent you in some way selling yourself out?



Selling out, in my mind, means sacrificing your values for profit. I haven't done that, that I am aware of, as I don't believe there is anything wrong with being compensated for something you have created. And I haven't accussed anyone of that, have I? I think I called Phil and Anthony "Hypocritical".


jw123 wrote:The only 2 folks Ive met on here that dont seem to be selling out are Jimmy and Neanderpaul. They seem pure in just putting together music for the joy of it with no expectation of material rewards.



I think most of us here, write and perform music because we enjoy it, first and foremost. That said, Paul has expressed that he would like to sell some of his songs for use in commercials, among other things. But again, how is being compensated for a performance, selling out?

jw123 wrote:I grew up listening and playing to southern rock and I enjoy your music Craig. You are a great songwriter but sometimes you come on a little strong with your beliefs.



First, thank you for the compliment. And secondly, yes indeed, I can be intense at times. Hopefully, it is mostly on issues I believe are important. But I haven't even gone through all the posts on this thread yet, and already, Phil has called dissenters who have voiced their opinions...

1) Stupid
2) Maroons
3) A-Holes

I called Phil a hypocrite.

But I am the one who is somehow patently offensive?

jw123 wrote:I think most people are here to get some sort of gig, so why do we slam everyone that even trys?



The slamming began with Ace. Who somehow couldn't deal with the fact, that a member of this forum pointed out that throughout history there has never been peace.

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