Piano-Keyboards

Just wanted to get some ideas for what a piano player can bring to a band... it seems like so many people are doing the drum / bass / guitar / singer make-up, and it works but in my opinion limits their versatility..... The problem is that coming from a piano background, as a solo instrument, I don't know where to start! I hear riffs in popular songs, but they are pretty simple for the most part.

So what do people do who play in live bands? Comments on genre, style, sounds, chords, rhythm, fill, etc are much appreciated!

I am really interested in the experimental / rock / industrial sounds... Radiohead / Nine Inch Nails / are what I want to play. Interesting pads and effects, edgy sounds and riffs... mmmm

Do keyboard players just sit down and learn the riffs to a hundred pop songs and off you go? Or are there some good styles of play that can be applied across a variety of music (eg. the power chord for guitar)? It seems like songs are either piano driven (Sara Bareilles 'Love Song', Michael Buble 'Everything', Nine Inch Nails 'The Frail') or we go back to simple riffs.

The other question is a lot of the ambient sounds / pads are played by the synth I assume --- how do people multitask between ambient fills and playing their lead synth patterns etc.

I always like the keys person to play something weird, that will generally set me off.

Otherwise, if he/she plays with the big rotation leslie sound, that makes me feel like I traveled time back to the Filmore East for one of those magical shows that rarely happen these days.

No one over this way knows anything 100%, it's pay as you go. And on a night when everything is running smoothly "just because", the clouds open up and you can see all the way to Venus where they are still building a bridge to Valhalla in the moonlight. You can hear the music all the way without the aid of technology, but we pipe it in so you can hear everything while you enjoy the ride.

Was that Captain Scott ? Or Captain Kirk?

"It feels like ants dancin all over me body" Scotty from Star Trek. Play whatever sounds the best with you mostly in your monitor. I worked with many projects and many bands but what is best sometimes is less playing or even hanging out of the tune to grasp the holes needed for the theme (lead singer or lead instrument). Get some of your favorite CD's and play them with your keyboard setup and see what you can add without being obnoxious or repetitive. I normally play like Guns and Roses Sweet Child of mine with open power type chords very similar to what the guitar players doing, when you use a straight powerful piano sound (not too loud!) it tends to thicken the mix and add power to the entire mix. Licking your keys aint gonna help, ha ha ha

Straight piano sound? ewwwwwwwwwww hell no, you meant straight organ sound with heavy rotating horn, making the big itch on the back of your brain inside your skull.

AS for how you play it, it's always different. Some version of call and respond/call and echo/ whatever makes you feel "riiiiight on".

I think Andy just about has it right.....what can a piano player(let me subsititute that for 'keyboard player') bring to the band? I play in a rock/funk covers band - anything from Welcome to the Jungle in which I effectively become a rythmn guitarist (using my motif / jv880 for the guitar sounds) through Living on a Prayer / Dude Looks Like a Lady to Chilli Peppers (Give It Away Now) and even funk like James Brown. All provide 2 challenges - 1. Learn the chords / runs and 2. Find the right combination of patches/keyboard splits and midi combinations. I would say with a new song I only spend an absolute max of 30% of my time learning the music side.

Sorry - that was a ramble - two things my 4 fellow band members site that I (humbly) bring to the party. First is a diversity of sounds that enables them to recreate a much expanded range of songs (which is important in a covers band) with a large degree of realism (which is dependent upon the effort you put in when programming patches) and second is the fullness / richness of the sounds. My one piece of advice to young keyboard players (if you can find any these days) is to make full uadulterated using of the panning functions on your boards. You might not get to hear the impact it makes at front of house but trust me it makes a massive difference. Get the guitars stereo'd through the PA and you'll raise the roof. There is a third advantage which I bring, and that is that I invested in a vocal harmoniser plug-in board for my motif so I can also fatten the vocals considerably (or sing an octave higher - so for example I get the really really high harmonies on Hold The Line). These little things set the band apart from the 'norm'.

So thats what I think a keyboard player can bring.

Last word of advice.....to be a keyboard player in a band you have to have an ego that requires minimal stroking and already have yourself a girlfriend/wife. In a rock band nobody sees the keyboard player....the front three get all the attention and drummers just plain cool. Only last Sat we finished a gig which went down a storm. A couple of people took down posters and asked the band to sign them. As I was packing up my gear, on-stage, they asked me if I was in the band - I said 'no'. Point proved.

Great tips, thanks.

Few more:

I find different sounds require altered volume on the output, or even dynamic volume through the chord or effect. Do people play with their master out during a live set? Or program the patches themselves to have a certain volume so they don't need to do much to their settings? I was trying to play with a band earlier this week, and I was seemingly always having to tweak what I was doing with the volume depending on what sound I was working, what style I was playing, etc etc etc. Is it something that we just need to know - where to have the volume set at during a live set? Or some other way to get around this issue. I just have nightmares about being in the middle of a set and breaking into a solo at a setting either way too low or overpowering and not know it because I don't know how things are EQing with the rest of the band.

Another question:
If I want to use synth patterns, arpeggiators, effects etc that are based on certain bpm and I am playing with a live drummer - who knows what the speed will be during the practice, let alone the actual set. Are drummers usually pretty consistent and it's okay to program a bit? Or do we try to do as much as we can manually to get around the timing variable?

Ah well - I think you'll get a wide variety on opinions on the volume question; we all have our own ways. For me, I set my master volume (slider) to about 80%. Then I use a pedal for those panic moments when you need to up to down the volume if for some reason the eq you set up doesn't work live. Again in terms of the front of house volume I'm afraid you just have to trust the sound guy (if you have one). Our band has a dedicated one (so valuable we pay him the same as we get!). The good guys spot it in a instant and you'll be magically turned down in an instant and the audience will hardly ever know. However, if you hear you mix prior to it going into the desk then you'll still panic! In this case resist the temptation to fix it in real-time because you'll confuse the hell out of the sournd engineer, but make a mental note to try to level it out for next time. If you don't have a sound guy then you need to be able to get to the volume controls pretty quickly hence my preference for a panic pedal (or pedals if you use more than one board). Of course, if you're midi'd then its possible to control the boards with one pedal. My other self-observation is that we board players are never ever happy with the sounds (because it will vary due to the system you play through anyway) and are constantly tweaking, much to the annoyance of everyone else!

I took advice from what I consider to be the best synth forum site out there which is motifator.com. Its supposed to be for Yamaha Motif owners but to be honest some of the forums about live playing, patch and performance programming, etc are the best I've seen anywhere. You're question regarding volume and use of sequencers/arpeggio's will have already been discussed on those forums for sure. I don't tend to use them (I'm an old dog who is incapable of learning new tricks!).

Yeah My Motif Es6 is setup to play a straight piano sound with a distorted electric guitar layered (no chunk in the attack) on it! I thinks it works great for thickening up a Rythm Track especially when you're play a 'no keyboard" song. I do it for AcDc songs all the time. Just the guitar sound is not as good and just the piano sound is not as good, you need both and the Motif makes it easy. I've got one performance set up that has four layered screaming guitars in one setup and it melts face, too. Jam on, Jam on, jam and whole wheat! Check out my playing on Vai Try Demo on my bandmix page. I also play through a KBR3D Motion Sound Amp with rotating speaker so I know what you're talking about commander Scott. All my organ patches are assigned to the alternate outs on the Motif and sent to the rotary channel on the KBR3D then I patch that into two MSR100 yamaha PA Speakers!

A really cool dig my man kind of a pop rockin jazz thingy. Though I enjoyed the listen I gotta say I prefer the imperfect sound of fingers on the strings for guitar licks. Its like yes I enjoy a highly processed cold Coors light, but a nice homebrew dark with flotsum and jetsum floating around in it. Aw yea baby, come to papa.

Well Believe this, I was in a situation where It Was Hard To Find A Rocking Guitar Player Who Would Put Up With The sh*t Of The Lead Singer, so I started playing the licks and riff to all the songs! I mean like Wanted Dead or Alive, You know that kinda stuff! I met a lot of people who either shy away or totally reject the idea, I mean I play Guitar also, but I was thrown into a situation where I had the keyboard but not the Guitar setup, And I sure as hell wasn't gonna carry both to a gig that paid $60! I played that gig every Thursday Night for seven years with a minimum setup, and think I made out!
Meanwhile I got some heads turning at least. I'm a purist too (Hammond B3 w/ Leslie) but I'm not carrying that to a two bit gig, Huh?

I do not think a gig that does not pay well/in a good setting is worth even doing. Period. I just rather stay home practice technics and improve my styles. Make some awesome noise on my synthers!

Press on to a higher goal, I say.

Long Live Live! I got addicted to the live show, the live audience. Playing with real, really good, players can feed this addiction! I got to a point where it was needed every week! Miles Davis said "You use music like a drug" to get off on! It's true, and, it was close by and put a couple of dollars in my pocket. All I had to take was the Motif ES6 and an Amp and seven years later I found a way to do the very same thing in another state (from MD to DE). Now I still feel my chops are challenged and I get out every week to "blow the stink off!" I still need that one day a week playing live! Mind you I don't take a Moog Modular, a grand Piano, and a Hammond to the gig, but I get by! Play all you can to as many people as you can...

Unless something really oddball / synth oriented is needed, I treat the piano as a cross between a rythym instrument and melody. So I comp alot of chords under and between the guitars or add color / emphasis to a line that needs punching, frequently both. The challenge is to find something that fits and doesn't get too repetitive over the course of a gig. A good exercise: add a piano part to any (non piano) Stones tune. It works. Even on Alanis Morisset. Keep the tone bright so you don't blend with the guitars and bass.