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#31521 by The KIDD
Wed May 14, 2008 3:59 pm
Hey Mike,

Its noon EDT as I type..All I see is Kramer on line...Maybe your still on...This board is goofy...I dont even see ME half the time...ANYWAY>>>>..I just lowered the action a bit and tweaked the truss rod to where Im prolly only 005-007 at the 7th...Man , that really helped!!!
The neck is a ONE PEICE..(no screws ..anything)..Gettin a lil buzz , so Ill have to play alittle lighter..Now Ill have to go to the store and check it...I notes up with the keybaord in the octave better also...The frets are a bit worn so that could be some of it becuase I notice it in the key of F more so...Ill let ya know what it strobes out to..

Thanks ,
John

#31531 by mistermikev
Wed May 14, 2008 6:05 pm
If I were you... I'd try and just get them to let you play with the strobe for a few minutes... you should be able to make a few quick adjustments and be on yer way.
As far as action... I always keep a fender thin pick around... hold down the first fret and the fret where the neck meets the body... and halfway between these guys you should have just enough room for that fender thin pick...
if the thing buzzes... then you need to raise the bridge a hair... then redo the intonation, but note that it takes approx 24hrs for a neck to finish adjusting when you crank on the truss rod... so your best bet is to tighten a hair less than you think you need and expect it to settle into where you actually want it.

good luck.

#31589 by Paleopete
Thu May 15, 2008 3:07 am
Didn't know you weren't using a tuner, but one is necessary to get the intonation actually right.

This makes me wonder though:

I shoulda mentioned that I DID STROBE this thing at the music store a day after I put strings on it and it the intonation "SEEMED" perfect...NOW, the first few days I had it , I didnt play much up the neck...WHEN, I started creatin a break for a tune , THATS when I notice my B&E strings noting flat past the 10th fret


How long was it between the strobe and the playing that now sounds flat? A few days? A week or two? Forget anything about correcting intonation until you have brand new strings on it. Even in just a week or two they can be dead and frequently dead strings will go flat. Occasionally sharp, but not often. Dead strings was my first thought, always is, the comment above makes me wonder what the interval was. The strings on my Cort CL 1500 are doing the exact same thing but I know what it is, dead strings. Right now it's minor, a note a little off here and there but in a week or so I won't be able to tolerate it any more and will have to change strings just to sit around and practice unplugged, intonation will be noticably off.

#31591 by The KIDD
Thu May 15, 2008 4:11 am
Hey thanks Pete,

These strings are about 2 weeks old..I keep them VERY clean..SO, really, I should be trustin the strobe right?..Yeah , I know what ya mean about alittle off here and there but you know how it is when your recordin.. :lol:
PLUS, Im a danged chorus nut...I hardly play ANYTHING unless its got chorus swirlin around in the mix.. :lol: (security blanket)...The more Ive played to today, the more I think its fretting alittle flat ..Like I say, in F seems to be a troublesome key up the neck...Ive tryin to push harder on certain notes...AND, by all means IM NOT a guitar player by any stretch.. :lol: SO, its BIT^%$ to me.. :lol: having to "taylor" my playin.(havin a hard enough time as it is.. :lol: )..Ill go to the store tomorrow..We'll see what MR STROBE has to say..

John

#31688 by The KIDD
Fri May 16, 2008 6:17 am
Hey Gang,

Well....Its still strobin flat...Heck, Ive went nuts with the truss rod and action while strobin..Nothing seems to help really...The frets have some flat spots but , Ive seen worse...I think Im just gonna give the poor gtr back to my buddy.....Thats what I get for sellin MY LES PAUL... :lol: ...


John

#31698 by Paleopete
Fri May 16, 2008 12:45 pm
Truss rod and action will have very little affect on intonation. Truss rod almost zero, action only a minor affect, usually pretty slight. It's the saddle movement that makes the most difference.

Did you put on new strings?If not you're wasting your time trying to strobe it, as soon as you start to question intonation new strings is the first thing to try. I do setups and intonation for people fairly often, I require new strings or I won't touch it. Have a guy here who has brought his guitar to me complaining about inotnation a half dozen times in the past 2 years, I've never touched the intonation since the first time, when I originally set it correctly, since then all I've done is put on new strings and checked intonation, never had to touch the saddles again. I think he's finally realizing it's dead strings, not intonation problems.

I think this is the same thing, dead strings.

#31702 by mistermikev
Fri May 16, 2008 1:21 pm
The KIDD wrote:Hey Gang,

Well....Its still strobin flat...Heck, Ive went nuts with the truss rod and action while strobin..Nothing seems to help really...The frets have some flat spots but , Ive seen worse...I think Im just gonna give the poor gtr back to my buddy.....Thats what I get for sellin MY LES PAUL... :lol: ...


John


there are so many possible variables that effect intonation... it's really something someone with a bit of experience should diagnose...

I used to do repair for music go round in milwaukee wi... we had this one guy with a kramer striker who would bring in the gtr once a month for intonnation... it really is something that you should set once and forget... in theory... but then there's practice. doing a floyd rose is a pain if it floats... adjust, retune the entire guitar, check, detune one string and reset, retune entire guitar and check... over and over. once you get a few low strings perfect... you end up making a big adjustment on the high strings and this causes the bridge to float in a different position which can alter the ones you got right... so you basically check the entire guitar again...
once you finally get the entire thing perfect the guy goes home and after the neck finishes adjusting to his house humidity and temp... he finds the action is a hair too low and buzzes when he plays like pete townshend... so you bridge height to give a little more space and... you guessed it... redo the entire thing.
I sure got a lot of experience with kramer strikers...

now, you would think adjusting the neck would have a negligable effect... but if a different gauge string has a drastic effect... if new strings has an effect... if adjusting a saddle that has no more than a quarter inch of play total has an effect... IF PICKING THE STRING HARD HAS AN EFFECT ON INTONATION... believe me... when you adjust the action and the neck bows or straightens it adjusts the overall distance between the nut and the 12th fret and the 12th fret and the bridge. If you fart in the room while you are checking the intonation on a gtr it effects it... (something to do with the methane content in the air actually altering the density of the gas causing the string to vibrate more vigorously)

#31710 by gtZip
Fri May 16, 2008 1:50 pm
mistermikev wrote:
The KIDD wrote:Hey Gang,

Well....Its still strobin flat...Heck, Ive went nuts with the truss rod and action while strobin..Nothing seems to help really...The frets have some flat spots but , Ive seen worse...I think Im just gonna give the poor gtr back to my buddy.....Thats what I get for sellin MY LES PAUL... :lol: ...


John


there are so many possible variables that effect intonation... it's really something someone with a bit of experience should diagnose...

I used to do repair for music go round in milwaukee wi... we had this one guy with a kramer striker who would bring in the gtr once a month for intonnation... it really is something that you should set once and forget... in theory... but then there's practice. doing a floyd rose is a pain if it floats... adjust, retune the entire guitar, check, detune one string and reset, retune entire guitar and check... over and over. once you get a few low strings perfect... you end up making a big adjustment on the high strings and this causes the bridge to float in a different position which can alter the ones you got right... so you basically check the entire guitar again...
once you finally get the entire thing perfect the guy goes home and after the neck finishes adjusting to his house humidity and temp... he finds the action is a hair too low and buzzes when he plays like pete townshend... so you bridge height to give a little more space and... you guessed it... redo the entire thing.
I sure got a lot of experience with kramer strikers...

now, you would think adjusting the neck would have a negligable effect... but if a different gauge string has a drastic effect... if new strings has an effect... if adjusting a saddle that has no more than a quarter inch of play total has an effect... IF PICKING THE STRING HARD HAS AN EFFECT ON INTONATION... believe me... when you adjust the action and the neck bows or straightens it adjusts the overall distance between the nut and the 12th fret and the 12th fret and the bridge. If you fart in the room while you are checking the intonation on a gtr it effects it... (something to do with the methane content in the air actually altering the density of the gas causing the string to vibrate more vigorously)


This is kind of OT and references another thread about favorite strings...
You mentioned you worked at music Go Round, well I bout a guitar from a Music Go Round in Aurora Colorado about 4 years ago, and it had the best strings I've ever encountered on it. Lasted forever, keep good tone forever, but I never thought to ask them about what they strung guitars up with.
Livin in Idaho now. Do you happen to know if they had a policy on restringing used guitars that they put up for sale? Specific string brands?

#31711 by mistermikev
Fri May 16, 2008 2:02 pm
we used to use these strings that came in tubes... they were never bent into a circle like most manufactured strings... I don't know what brand they were... but they were pretty nice as long as they didn't sit around too long...
but mgr is a franchise... anyone who owns one can string up with a number of dif products.
I wish I could be of more help.

#31804 by The KIDD
Sat May 17, 2008 1:39 pm
Hey Gang,

I played a job last nite with this guitar and playin "live",the intonation prob is not that noticable.Just up and down tweakin of the B&E depending of the key... :lol:...I like this dang neck so much,(much different than my les paul studio lite), I just may fix this ole dude up with some fret work and new bridge... :lol:...

John

#31958 by mistermikev
Tue May 20, 2008 5:08 pm
kool kid. glad you like the neck...
If you bring it in somewhere to have someone work on it... def let us know what the official prognosis turns out to be... I, for one, would love to find out what it ends up being.

#31964 by gbheil
Tue May 20, 2008 5:52 pm
Yes keep us posted on your prognosis. The more info ican store the better.

#32109 by Paleopete
Thu May 22, 2008 3:45 am
we used to use these strings that came in tubes... they were never bent into a circle like most manufactured strings


Nashville Straights, was it? I started to see those a while back and it seemed like a good idea, but never tried them. I think that's the right brand name, it's been a while but that seems like it.

#32114 by mistermikev
Thu May 22, 2008 5:03 am
a quick google on nash straights suggests they come in a box...
but nashville straights sure sounds familiar...
and could there really be two straight string manufacturers?
I dunno.
All I can tell ya is we used to get them in these cardboard tubes... bulk e a d g b and e strings... each dif gauge would be in a plastic sheath (not sealed or anything).

afa strings tho... I go back and forth... I like d'addarios cause I never get a g/b/e string with pre-existing "black marks". (you know what I mean)
but then I love the "snappy-ness" of the super slinkys.
I think elixers are tone-less...
maxima golds last long but lack in tone...
like the fender bullets w/ wound g string for my tele...
enough about strings...

#32125 by Paleopete
Thu May 22, 2008 12:54 pm
I've been using Dean Markley Blue Steels for many years, but now I can't find them locally. The local music store got a half dozen sets that were rusted in the box and quit selling them. so I've been trying different strings for the past 2 years and can't find anything I like as well as the Blue Steels. I started on Dean Markley strings back in the 70's when I grabbed a set to try out on my acoustic, they lasted longer than anything else I had found and stayed bright longer, so I stayed with Dean Markleys.

Right now I'm using store brand strings, no idea who makes them, but when I'm gigging I use new strings every gig for the whammy bar guitars, new ones every other gig for non whammy guitars. Otherwise I start breaking strings, I play hard and beat them around a lot. So I'm not that picky about how long strings last, everything I've tried will last all night at a gig. sound is not all that different, so if I have to settle for nickel wound, any old string will do, nobody carries a steel string around here now that the Dean Markleys are gone, nickel is all I can get.

I'm using GHS Curt Manghan stringson the acoustic, they seem to do quite well, stay in tune nicely and sound good. Just doodling around at the house they don't go dead for a couple of months, that suits me, and I normally practice mostly on acoustic, I pick up an electric about once a week, the rest of the time it's the Takamine...

I wish I could remember the straight string brand for sure, but I've slept since then...it seems like Nashville Straights though, I'm not sure of anyone else that does that style of packaging.

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