General Music Chat

We've been auditioning singers ...

I've been finding that somewhere around 75% show up with no mic/amp/PA/effects, anything.

Would you bother even auditioning someone without? I'm sort of new to a lot of this, as in the past, I had always joined formed bands, but to me it just seems like common sense, A guitarist has to show up with his own guitar and amp, so shouldn't a singer show up with his/her own mic, etc...?

I am setting up an audition for one tomorrow, and he doesn't own any gear...

I at least learned to start asking ahead of time, but now I'm not sure how to proceed when given the answer.

I would allow a singer to show without gear as long as they can sing & are willing & able to help the band load & unload equipment.

The main thing is - can he/she sing?

This has been a question that has come up before, but my answer remains the same. If they are good for the band, then I'd be happy to use them. Do they practice & learn thier parts? Are they team players? Are they capable of singing those back to back 2 & 3 night runs (or 4 & 5, for some of us) without losing thier power & range? Those are the only questions I would want answered.

Now Kramer,

You dont expect the cat to haul a pwr rack, mains, monitors, and baord to an audition do ya...Heck , be glad THEY show up... .. Hey ,just ribbin ya after that last post... ...In my experiences. rarely have I seen a vocalist bring even a mic to an audition..Alot a times ,the band will want to hear them on THEIR set up AND you know some bands like using the same mics for everyones vocal .PLUS,.You definetly DONT want a lead vocal controlling the mix... (ooooooh , Ill get letters on that one.. ) (jay leno)...But, yeah I agree with ya in ASSUMMING that a working vocalist would have a MIC w/stand and cords at least...I guess in a local band sitch, it should be discussed over the PH...I like to audtion vocals unplugged anyway...Just play in the motel room with an acoustic..Oooo thats scary aint it. .NO FX...BUT, that may be N/A depending on the genre...Yeah, just talk it over the these cats see what your options are.

John

hmm odd. well ok...

Right now we are using a couple of mics runnin into my old guitar amp. It's a crap setup and really hurts new guys more than helps.

That being said, is it up to me and the drummer to buy a friggin PA for someone to sing?

Just seems unfair to us.

You don't have a PA? That surprized me. I thought you did, for some reason. Then you may want to find a sound man or singer/sound man combo (dangerous combo, there!) to fill in your needs.

Hey ...A bunch of us are on here at the same time...cool...

Yeah , It goes around over the yrs..I figure it evens out over time..You'll have to be the guy who's house and PA is used for practice for a while then when the band morphs into another configuration or YOU join another outfit..You be exempt ...for a while ...THEN , it will come back to you....THEN.... You get it... Id say 5 outta 30yrs Ive supplied the PA...Not too bad... ...Yeah, having a PA at home is great for a drummer..You can blast the tunes while ya practice, no sissy head phones.. ..use it for an interface to the computer for recording..Go ahead and take the plunge..

John

I've got 2 drummers that don't have kits, I have one even though I never plan on playing. You need to have everything. Say all the crap you want. the time will come when it will come in handy. Many musicians play more than one instrument but don't nessicarilly have both. So I've got Drums, Acoustic Guitar ( I play) electric guitar (I don't) Bass ( trying to learn)
Keyboards ( don't) Small PA 150watt peavy pasport.3 mics and stands. monitor speaker. 150 watt peavy 212 chorus amp, Fender Champ 25 100watt amp. Berenger 180 watt Bass amp. small mixer board. bunch of cables and adapters. and oh yea 7 harmonicas and oh yea 3 kazoos.
Probably forgot something.
Say what you want about how it should be in a perfect world but it ain't.
One guitar player can play bass if needed and etc...

Main point my instrument is guitar, I'll bring it for a interview.
If I'm there to sing my instrument is my voice and that's what I bring.
I've intervied twice and didn't take a mic or pa either time.

Seems to me that the same things that get you fired-up also get me fired-up bro. I always believed that a "singer" (a.k.a. "I think I'm better than the rest of the band") should own his/her own pa even if it's a small practice one. Hell I've got thousands of dollars invested in all of my gear so why can't they at least spend a couple hundred if they're serious at all? Most people "think" that they can sing, but in the end they really blow. I also get the "hey I can sing so I'll come over and show you guys what I've got" sort of thing and as soon as the dude opens his mouth, I inevitably start to laugh and just stop playing. Why should we as the REAL musicians have to put up with anything less than we are ourselves? My answer is that we should'nt period.

I actually have most of the makings of my own pa, but I'm getting ready to upgrade to a really nice one here soon not because I would let some "poser" use it for singing purposes, but rather just to have my own to use whenever (if ever) I run into some dudes that have skills. So in essence, I'd say to get yourself one if for nothing more than the self gratification of knowing that you don't have to rely on anyone else to use or borrow one. Then you can tell the singer that "if I have my own pa as a guitar player, then why shouldn't you have your own as a singer?" That'll shut them up when they try to get on their high-horse!

I'm with you on this one shred- I just can't bring myself to be forgiving of someone who isn't prepared to invest in their own musicianship.

No more than I would put up with yngwie on guitar if he didn't drive, for instance.

I will audition them, and if they are that good, then I would at least expect a commitment from him/her to purchase their own gear in a reasonable amount of time.

I leaned on tomorrow's auditionee a little about not having his own gear, so given the status-quo, he probably won't show up anyways.

A reasonable PA is expensive. Traditionally, if you owned the PA you pretty much were in control. That always leads to problems, because, having the money to buy a great PA does not necessarily mean you have the most musical experience or best organizational skills.

But why would a singer, without a band, be expected to provide what is often the most expensive part of the band? (yes, I know some of you f*ckers can afford $5000.00 guitars and amps. LOL)

Having a microphone? Maybe.

A singer with experience, could have been expected to have at least invested in a good vocal mic somewhere during his career. But it shouldn't be a deal breaker. Are you gonna pass up on a kick-ass vocalist with natural skills who is just starting out, because he doesn't have a microphone?

If you don't have the money to buy your own PA, then the two other options are...

1) Find a band member who already has one.

2) The band invests together in one.

That second one though, will lead to ALL KINDS of problems, when someone wants to leave the band though. That's why I always recommend making a contract between the band members from the earliest possible date. It's best to get that stuff out of the way early. Long before the band begins to have success. The contract should lay out whether there is a band fund or not, what it gets used for, how decisions are made, who administrates the band bank account, what is the process of members leaving the band... do you pay them off for whatever was held in common, do they forfeit it by leaving, etc...

When people get successful, and therefore hugely inflated egos, it is much harder to iron these details out then. Better to do it early.

The contract should be signed by everyone in front of a notary.

If you can afford to get your own PA, it may seem unfair, but it makes the situation much more attractive for qualified band members, and it gives you some leverage, which helps you not get screwed over yourself later.

Aside from that, you will have to pool your money together, but that involves risks. Make sure who you are dealing with.

These days, most decent sized venues have their own sound system and engineer. You can be successful and play out without owning a PA. For practice, either don't use one, or get the vocalist to invest in a small self-contained PA, which can be had for under $500 bucks.

If this was an issue, your ads should say so. Don't expect that a singer should own his own full PA. It is not the norm.

Maybe you could invest in a small PA and then demand that the vocalist brings his own mic? While, a wannabe with money, may have his own mics and not be any good, chances are, at least, that it shows some seriousness in his craft, that he owns his own equipment, a mic at least. And if someone doesn't have one, but buys one to audition, it could show a certain level of seriousness, that they made an investment, to get on board with you guys.

Whatever you do, don't sell yourself short. Get the best level singer you can find. Wait if you have to. It is much less messy, than getting stuck with someone who is not great, but loyal, and then you have to fire him just to make room for someone better. That is not pretty or very fair.

Good luck bro!

I concur, Craig. Get the best singer you can find. Get the best PA you can afford, or let someone else buy it. If all you need is a front man, let him front, man. If he can afford the PA, great. Just keep in mind that the players are equal partners, unless you set it up otherwise, if you are the "leader."

I once fronted with my keyboard amp with a high to low adapter for the mic, in a pinch, for a small venue. Eh, not the best, but it worked.

Don't be too anxious to set up roadblocks for the band over stuff like that.

If you decide to use someone, it should be for thier ability, not necessarilly for thier ability to have & spend a lot of cash on things that may or may not work out for them & you.

Otherwise you'll be most likely to end up depending on someone who has the equipment but gets snippy & pushy about how much power they have over you. And that is zero fun. I know.

A reasonable PA is expensive. Traditionally, if you owned the PA you pretty much were in control. That always leads to problems, because, having the money to buy a great PA does not necessarily mean you have the most musical experience or best organizational skills.

But why would a singer, without a band, be expected to provide what is often the most expensive part of the band? (yes, I know some of you f*ckers can afford $5000.00 guitars and amps. LOL)

Well I certainly don't expect anyone to drop $5G on a professional PA, but like you say below...

These days, most decent sized venues have their own sound system and engineer. You can be successful and play out without owning a PA. For practice, either don't use one, or get the vocalist to invest in a small self-contained PA, which can be had for under $500 bucks.

If this was an issue, your ads should say so. Don't expect that a singer should own his own full PA. It is not the norm.

So, I do hold issue that for $500, I can pretty much find a mediocre guitar and amp that would be considered by most to be the absolute minimum for playing a show, yet a singer should be expected to show up with nothing but his/her pipes and everyone else in the band should be grateful to have the opportunity to provide them gear AND to be able to perform in their presence?

I just can't get on board with that.

being a singer first and a guitar player second i think i have a foot on each side of the fence on this one....
first off im with craigs view on this.....if i was to try out for a band (and ive done it too many times to remember) i would expect that they would have a p/a and mics and leads(now im talking about a working semi-pro band not just a playin for fun type affair) ...i have never taken a mic with me to any try out(and i do own my own that i gig with)...i bring my semi-accoustic guitar alright but it is up to the "band" or employers to provide the p.a for the try out ...end of story... there is no excuse thats just the way it is.

no offence kramer but if i turned up for a try out and the "band" didnt have a p/a and were using a mic into amp set up im sure i wouldnt hang around too long...even if they were great players i wouldnt join any band if i had to buy a p/a to do it...and its almost impossible to try out any singers if you dont have a p/a....it will make even an ok singer sound crap...more trouble than its worth if you ask me...

so to close i too hate the "big head" bravado that most crap singers who think there the dogs bollix tend to try and pull off...ive met my fair share of fools who think they can sing but to be fair ive met more fools who think they can play guitar...so many fools... and i dont know which one i dispise the most...

goodluck with the hunt kramer...on another note you may want to rent a p/a for the next singer try out you have...get a few hopefulls and make a day out of it....

slain.

no gear= no audition.

Generally indicates that subject is not serious enough to have purchased any gear.

I agree with Anthony. Never heard before that it was up to the singer to have the PA. Plus fact that most musicians are full of it.