General Music Chat

To say that someone playing a cover of a song is not creating is ludicruous. Yes, music is being created! It happens to be something written by another person, but so what? To say that playing music is not creating something is wrong. Then the person playing one of their own songs is really not creating, they are just rehashing something written before?

Sure, it takes talent and an appreciative ear to write new songs that are liked/enjoyed by others (I won't say 'good' because that is subjective). But it takes talent to play/create music PERIOD.

But it takes talent to play/create music PERIOD.

Are we talking about talent or creating a song?

Playing music and creating music are different disciplines, both requiring different talents. Though some people do both, most do not. By your definition(s) any time someone plays a song they have "created" something; but it's only a different version of something that existed before. So what?

That's an insult to songwriters everywhere. Those are not even close to the same thing no matter how much you guys might wish it were so. One can be creative in playing music, yes. One could even "creatively" alter a composition. But that is comparing apples to lemons and still not the same as creating a song from scratch.

I've never said it doesn't take talent, nor have I said that songwriters are better than players. I'm just saying those are different disciplines and someone who copies what a songwriter has created is not really creating anything, no matter how creatively they alter it. It's still taking something already created and altering it.

Can someone show talent doing that? Yes, sure. Can they show creativity by how they did it? Yea, sure.

But they didn't create a song or the copyright royalties would be going to them. They've produced something which they will have to pay a publishing company for the rights to record.

And do you know why? Because they didn't create it.

I've had several of my songs covered and I like the ones who changed it to fit themselves usually. but there was one artist who wanted a cut of the publishing (for his recorded version) so he asked to change the words and get 1/3 of royalties. I let him do that and he hurt himself with people who already knew the song. Those who don't know my version may like his version better, I don't know. But I have no problem with any artist interpreting a song for themselves...I would prefer they do, actually.

But you guys don't know what you're talking about if you think doing a cover is equal to writing a song. No comparison and not nearly as creative, no matter how creatively it's done.





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Making a big deal out of only the writer of a given song being capable of creating a performance of the song that's worth hearing is a stupid thing to do. And of course, everyone is entitled to do stupid things, and no one should try to stop them from repeating their stupidity over and over and over, even if the repetition also includes false accusations and gross flaws in logic and common sense.

There you go again....just can't write a paragraph without taking a swipe at me, eh? Insult me all you want, if it makes you feel better, little man.

I'll rest in the knowledge that you're just ignorant. You think you know something about what I have successfully done for a living for the last 3 decades.

Some people apparently are so enamored of their own opinions that they'll defend them at all costs, even when it is obvious that the opinion was crudely and inelegantly expressed, and so overblown with excessive hyperbole that it comes across as a rant more than anything else. .

Talking about yourself here, obviously.

You don't know jack, but you keep defending your ignorant opinions and get quite upset if someone has another.

whatever.


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I have to agree with Ted on this one. There is nothing in the world as satisfying to me than starting with a blank canvas and ending with a song. When I sit in front of my recorder and create a song, there becomes a point the song literally takes on a life of its own. It is an extremely creative process. On the other hand when I sit down to learn a song it is a different process that I don't consider very creative. I do both, having said that I really do not prefer one over the other. I enjoy getting into the nuts and bolts of what makes a song tick when learning a cover song. They are both fun.

I have to agree with Ted on this one. There is nothing in the world as satisfying to me than starting with a blank canvas and ending with a song. When I sit in front of my recorder and create a song, there becomes a point the song literally takes on a life of its own. It is an extremely creative process. On the other hand when I sit down to learn a song it is a different process that I don't consider very creative. I do both, having said that I really do not prefer one over the other. I enjoy getting into the nuts and bolts of what makes a song tick when learning a cover song. They are both fun.

This isn't about how satisfying it is to the musician creating or performing the music. It's about how satisfying a piece of music is to the audience experiencing the song.

Point taken, I will say from my experience. Playing gigs all over Houston for over 35 years 99% of those gigs offered extremely satisfied audience's.
I have personally met Ted/Yod and he has had the best musicians (In the WORLD) play on his originals.
So unless you are Yannie, YoYo Ma, Deep Purple, or Garth Brooks talk to the hand Mr Professor!

And by the way this is one of those musicians that played on Teds original's
https://youtu.be/KaVVZYOvMFY

There you go again....just can't write a paragraph without taking a swipe at me, eh? Insult me all you want, if it makes you feel better, little man.

You really think everything is about YOU, don't you? You think you're the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.

So now you're going to act like you haven't been taking swipes at me with almost every paragraph you've written in the last couple of weeks? Whatever.

Man, I've tried to end this but you keep your little snide digs up. So, if you insist, I'll keep slapping back until you get tired of it. Better men than you have tried to wear me out and failed. LOL

You're only mad because I said your fave euro-metal band was a lame 80s copy. You don't have to like my opinions, but I've paid a lot of dues to have them. So if you want to keep acting like I don't know what I'm talking about, I'll just have to keep reminding you how little you actually know.

And that can go on as long you'd like to endure.

I can't believe that it is such a problem for me, as a songwriter, to have the audacity of opinion than no cover can be greater than the original song it is covering. Just like no servant is greater than his master.

Without the original there is nothing to cover and I think the songwriters deserve ALL credit for taking an idea from nothing to fruition. Whether the fixed final version is the best performance possible is another matter. But copying someone's original idea can be done by anyone, so it doesn't compare.



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George, everyone on this forum knows my name is Jeff Haley I don't hide behind anything or anyone.
The reason I called you professor is because you sound like a very intelligent guy. I work for professors PHD's for a living and you sound like one of those.
I'll let Ted that is his first name tell you of himself if he wants. He is a very nice guy and I never found anything pretentious about him. I do know he tours constantly and enjoys reaching out to folks on this site and personally meeting people. I consider him a friend. I didn't find his music to be "filler music" at all. When I met him he gave some CDs and I listen to them almost weekly.
I find it interesting that you comment about our hiding behind pseudonyms when you are doing the same thing. Care to tell us who you are? If not you now know my name.

You're only mad because I said your fave euro-metal band was a lame 80s copy.
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No, I just don't like you because you are a pretentious asshole.

george, you're just being a belligerent dumbass now. I don't know this person you're talking about? I'm definitely not a CCM derivative, so either you didn't actually listen or you're ignorance is showing. My guess is the latter since you think that 80s rip off euro band is fresh.

And I don't hide behind a psuedonym either. It's called an username/avatar and bandmix made me choose one when I registered. hmmmm...what other silly errors of yours shall I address?

I'm sure it would irk you to know that I've done quite well writing & producing original music....so be irked. Want to come hang out at my 9 bedroom log cabin in Spartanburg? Be nice or I'll make you sleep on one of the balcony decks.

And btw, I think you've done a great job in showing who the pretentious asshat in our conversation is. Keep going!








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