United States

Well our band has been getting together pretty well, we got the 'meat' of the band in place and are looking at auditioning singers this week.

We discussed a 2nd guitarist and I've been pretty adamantly against it, and I've been very forthcoming about my reasoning, but I will explain.

Most of my influences are 3 and 4 piece bands that have only 1 guitar, for instance, rush, triumph, led zep, etc.. I learned to play a style that fills (extended bar chords and such). I like a band that sounds clean and not garbled. I also feel that it's a personal thing. Would the drummer like me to bring in a 2nd drummer? A second bassist? I doubt it.

Before you flame me, I *do* agree that there are many, many, great songs with 2 and even 3 guitar lines in them. And many bands with 2 and 3 guitarists. There's without a doubt a place for 2 guitarists in most bands.

I personally think it's a preference thing. And that's my preference.

Now, we discussed this in the band and I was completely forthcoming and honest and explained just like I've done here.

I suggested we find a keyboardist who also plays rhythm guitar, that way, because we're a cover band for now, we can really use him/her in both regards without having overkill in either department. We do some songs that have NO keys in them and could use a 2nd guitar. The guys thought that was a great idea.

So I get a call last night, one of the guys found a "great guitarist" and wants to audition him at tonight's practice (oh and he doesn't play keys or sing or anything else).

Oh and can *I* bring an extra guitar/amp/effects b/c he doesn't have anything right now. He's in a rut.

Well, knowing where I come from, I'm sure many of you can see where I would have several problems here.

I really like these guys, and we're getting really tight, but anyone have suggestions on how to handle this? I'm pretty much the guy who put this whole thing together, and while I'm trying not to be a dick leader and keep things democratic, I'm starting to think terrible thoughts.

I would tell the guys you'd love to audition the guy but be up-front and say no one uses your equipment. That's not being a dick, most players are like that. Besides, you really don't want anyone in the band who is in a "rut", next thing you know you're picking the guy up for practice and bailing him out of jail. As far as having a second guitarist, it's a great idea if the other guitarist is a team player, otherwise it's not worth the aggravation.

Eh...I'd keep an open mind about it...but that's just me...sometimes one must compromise a bit

Perhaps your vision doesn't match up with the band's...it's better to find out early on.

Sounds like maybe one or more of your guys really wants to work with him...check him out, at least. You might be pleasantly surprized.

Sometimes you have to open the mind a bit...how easy is it to find that keyboard/rhythm player? Deep down, did you suggest that cuz they're so hard to find, or do you actually have someone in mind? What are YOUR motivations on this issue?

Finally, if it's a "my way or the highway" kinda thing, best be prepared to leave, or risk creating hard feelings that may never be overcome.

I thought that suggesting a key/guitar player was the perfect solution and a valid compromise on my part. I got the idea from a former band that did it. And everyone seemed to agree at the time that it was a good direction to shoot for.

I know they are rare, but I did find someone on here who fits that description and already attempted to contact him.

I did tell the guy sure, bring him in. But in the formation of this band, I thought we all had an understanding about it. That's what is frustrating me.

Keep an open mind AND be a dick, Try the guitar player IF he'll get his own eq. That will tell you something about his intent. Try your idea too. Then let the reality of the situation be the judge not what may happen. Sounds too me like you really dont "need" another player. That puts you in the drivers seat. Look both ways and go left if ya have to.

Kramer, Just be a dick and tell them you dont want another guitarist. It sounds like that is what you want to say anyway, so just say it and move on.

I would tell them hell no on using your equipment to audition a player who doesnt have his own. Ive been thru that, hand holding a guitarist once that I stepped aside for and played bass in a gruop with one time. "Have you got a spare pick" Have you got some strings" "Have you got an extra strap" Why sure no problem, but how about I borrow your girlfriend for an hour or so? We can call it a trade. I would never let someone in a band at this stage of my life who didnt have equipment, it doesnt matter if it was an out of luck Jimmy Page, I would just say tuff.

The flip side is and Im not trying to be ugly, but do the other members want another guitarist cause you arent handling your end of the deal. You dont have to answer that on here cause I really dont care.

My argument about extra members was when the money comes in is there enough to support another member. In my area band money is slim so this might be the perfect excuse for you.

[
I did tell the guy sure, bring him in. But in the formation of this band, I thought we all had an understanding about it. That's what is frustrating me.[/quote]


I think I put in another thread on here somewhere that if I start another band project I am going to write down on a piece of paper what we are or are not going to do and get everyone to sign it up front. Because I feel in the end, unless you are just going to make noise in the garage that when you get into the public expecting to get paid it is a job.

I say, crucify your ego. It only holds you back.

Oh don't ever do that! You're not supposed to erase your ego, you have to learn to keep a leash on it. Without an ego, no artist would ever do anything.

Oh, Kramer, dude...I musta been sick this mornin'....looking it over again I see the bit about "he's in a rut" & don't have his own equipment!?!?

I can't believe I skipped over that, man...all I can say to this is SCROOO DAT!!! (I think it's cuz I was dealin' w/the phone & the wife at the time I read this...but there's no excuse for missing it...I'm an idjit sometimes...all apologies)

This ain't noplace for the weak...you ain't gotcher own stuff? then you can't AFFORD to be in a band...and NO - you ain't using my stuff to audition...you don't know it personally like I do & some of your ruttish mojo might rub off on it...I mean, if your stuff was in storage I might say okay...but if you ain't got it, I'm not here to put you on my taxes, man!!

Be a dick...make his buddies man up about it...if they want him in, let THEM buy his stuff to unruttify him...you don't even know the guy & they want you to be his daddy or sumpin...no no no...(hope I don't look too schizo or flip-floppish, but if I do then so be it)...he ain't family...flook that...if he was so effin' great he'd still have stuff to practice on & keep his chops up...then he MIGHT be worthwhile

JUST SAY NO...do the right thing

Sorry I didn't give it the attention it deserved at 1st

There's no such thing as a "great" guitarist who doesn't have any equipment. Is he a drug addict? Has he pawned his equipment? Would he come back and steal your equipment and pawn that also? When I hear about someone not having any equipment it sets off a red flag for me. You must weigh the pros and cons of adding a second guitarist. If the new guitarist is strictly (the operative word is strictly) a rhythm guitarist that may allow you the freedom to play more lead. That could be a real advantage. If the rhythm guitarist is also a fine vocalist that could be just what you guys need. Some songs may not need a rhythm guitar and if the guy (or gal) is singing then you've got it made. Be open minded about adding another instrument whether it's a keyboard and/or rhythm guitar. The RIGHT person can make a huge addition to the band. However the WRONG person could set you back. Good luck...

Well thanks for the responses. I've perhaps represented myself poorly here, as city seems to think that I need to leash my ego. Far from it. I'm no Yngwie, and I'm well aware of the fact that guitarists are a dime a dozen around here. What I lack in wankery skills, I make up for in solid timing, accurate playing, and determination/preparedness.

Yeah, if a gutarist came in with a secondary talent like singing (even backup), or keys, or something, I'd welcome the idea. But the last thing we need is a second guitarist who brings nothing but a guitar to the table (or doesn't even have that). Their thoughts were that some of the covers we do sound hollow without a rhythm guitar (and we have no keyboard player yet).

So we had our practice last night and I did discuss it, with a more level head than when I wrote the original post here. Me and the drummer click well, both personally and musically, and seem to be on the same page as far as direction goes. We auditioned a singer, and that leads me to my next question:

Should a singer have his own mic/amplification? Every band I was ever in either already had a singer or fell apart before we found one, so I'm total noob in singer auditions. We set this guy up with a basic mic and guitar amp to sing thru, but it struck me odd he had nothing but a 6-pack walking through the door. He was 'ok' on talent, has the tools, can hit the right notes, but has a limited range. We're going to keep scouting. What should I look for in a singer (as far as gear goes)?

I nearly always expected the band to have mics & PA, back when I fronted...whoever has the PA should have the mics

I don't expect a singer to have to have it...it's nice if he does

But then I usually work either as a singer who also plays, or use singers that play instruments these days

Nah...I wouldn't hold it against him...I'd just rather use ppl that can add to the experience musicaly in more than one way

I think a singer should AT LEAST have a good mic.

The last singer I dealt with wouldn't even buy a mic cord, but he bought a Nintendo Wi!!!

The only mic he had was a POS that he stole from a gig, the P.A. wasn't his, and he had to borrow my best mic cord to keep the damn P.A. from squeeling..He absolutely refused to buy his own stuff.

If I walk into a situation as a singer, I offer to bring my whole P.A. rig. If the band feels like it's not necessary. Then I won't.
I'll at least bring my mic, and mic cord. Considering how much musicians spend on their equipment, a singer should at least have that, and not a POS Realistic.

Back when my old band was looking for a singer, we'd tell them just to bring their own mic. I had my P.A. already set up. If they didn't have a mic, we wouldn't even audition them..

As far as the guitar player. If it's a stranger, absolutely not. If it's a friend, or a friend of a band member, I'd consider it, but not let them take anything home with them.

Every guitar player should at least TRY to have even somewhat decent gear. If I lost all my gear in a fire or some bulls**t, I'd still be able to find decent enough gear to be in a band for $500. Marshall 8080 $200, Fender Stagemaster $200, Dimarzio pickup $70, guitar cord $15. That would at least get me by.

I've heard it said that that ol' pisser Brad Scarlet Trust doesn't have any equipment!
( I'd let the sorryassed dude in my band none the less!)