General Music Chat

Planet guy ... this is your best Thread in my opinion. Most excellent and my compliments to all who have posted. The conclusions are things we should all remember. And what the Hell .. no harsh words, insults or mocking. I Love it.

awwww, you're not gonna even scold me for using "folks"???

glad you're grading on a curve!

I find it quite interesting due to the great diversity of musos on here, their individualities and skills. All this under the common "Thread" and once again a smaller diversity on method, definition and process ... all relevant and justified. For me it is both reaffirming and educational. Of course I will not change my policies as I know they work but still it broadens the understanding and opens the mind.

We all annoy one another at times but this makes me remember we all have music in common and we all have our OWN ways regarding it.

"Youv'e got to learn your instrument. Then, you practice, practice, practice. And then, when you finally get up there on the band stand, forget all that and just wail."

For me, practice is going over my 'big six' tunes that I try to keep ready to play all the time, plus some scales and playing fast as for a few minutes so I can to keep my hands limber. Pretty similar for bass or guitar.

Rehearsal - well you guys said it well. My band hands me sheet music. I look at the chord charts, listen to the tunes on youtube and run through a couple times so I won't hold up the team when we are working as a band.

Talbot

I had done a thousand gigs before I was 20. I still practice, but get quite a lot of that onstage.

Songs are written during practice as I experiment and try new things that I wouldn't necessarily attempt in public onstage. I've played with many bands who just "cliqued" together, but it never replaces practice if you're going to grow beyond where you are already.

A jam band, or a temporary band, or "just for the fun of it" might be an exception, but I have fired ONSTAGE bands who were unprepared because they thought they didn't need to show up for practice, and were proven wrong at the second chorus.

There is no excuse for a professional to not practice sometime. Get it done and you can relax until it's time to grow some more.

Rehearsals (or 'practices') are when a band works out arrangements, timing and gets tight. You can easily tell a band that doesn't rehearse at the end of a song when they don't end together!

This is why God invented cues!

They work better on long 'jam'-type endings, not so well on others. Sloppy is as sloppy does.

This is why God invented cues!

They work better on long 'jam'-type endings, not so well on others. Sloppy is as sloppy does.

not at all. at least that's not my exp in two long term bands that i work w regularly.

there are no 'long jam type endings' for The 121's or Planet Jazz. We often will play a song that only one person knows or has played before because we've had a request at the truckstop. hell, there's often a tune someone in the band has never HEARD before let alone PLAYED!

but as seasoned pros...everyone else is Listening, Watching and Paying Attention. it's easy enough for a seasoned pro who's been doing that a long time to catch endings, and come up w appropriate parts (even if you don't know the EXACT part your instr played on the actual record)

yeah, when a band is missing endings it's easy enough to assume they're not well rehearsed...

...but the other side of the coin? a band that catches endings and plays cohesively together....one might assume "wow, those guys rehearse a lot"...and you'd be dead wrong about both 121's and P-JAZZ.

it's really NOT all that hard w the RIGHT players.

I have played with all types of musicians. Most jazzers don't play the song they play the basic structure and jam the song. One band I played with the leader would throw 3 fingers up which is 3 sharps or 2 fingers down. The drummer leads the song a good one will lead you into the ending.
I will say jazzers play music a little differently than rockers. They are a little more intellectual you got to be on your toes to hang with them.
I have had to fire more than one more than adequate jazzer because they wouldn't learn the songs like most rockers do. Heart Of The Matter by Don Henley is one that would throw the best jazzer off. They could never get the changes, a little unorthodox! I play mostly rock these days because that is my music of preference. Our band practices about once every 2 or 3 months. When you have vocal harmonies you have to rehearse more often to stay tight. Just my 2 cents.

Jeff's post nails it- it's the type of music you are playing. Nothing against the music that Mark or Jook are playing, it just has different requirements.

As an example - at an open mic/jam I was at about 2 months ago, I asked the bass player and drummer to play one song with me - the Cars's My Best Friend's Girlfriend. Very simple rock song, mostly I-IV-V, but if you don't really know the song, you're going to miss the timing of the chord changes. Drummer had no problem (he knew the song and just had to keep the beat) - but the bassist, who is Berkley-trained, plays multiple instruments, can sight read, but whose specialty is funk, still couldn't get the chorus changes right by the 3rd chorus.

Very interesting Posts and actually there is a general agreement in common with them all. I like that very much since it is Music and music of a great variety being discussed. It seems that Jazz and Punk have something else in common besides 4 letters. Of course "Rock" is yet another 4 letter word which has some commonality with the others as well. No one has weighed in from the Classical as of yet and that would be interesting.

For my Bands a system has developed over the years which is a little different perhaps.
The "Productions" staged have grown in length with the last one being 3 Hours in length with no break or Intermission. What I am working on now is a series of nightly Productions, each different ... one each night for seven nights in a row. These will be between 3 to 4 hours long. I am considering doing an Intermission roughly halfway through not so much as a break for the musicians and dancers but to sell related items. I am not sure about this but will make that decision later when on the verge of beginning the Shows.

Due to the theatrical and technical effects and nature of the Production ... it is essential that each musical piece or song is played virtually the same ... each time. This alone requires rehearsal. The level of endurance and concentration is very high. I can only compare it to a type of military operation. When dealing with Dancers, Choreography and music ... it has to be the same each time. This is compounded by the light, sound, special effects and stagekraft involved

We have always performed in proper theatres where there is a large stage, light bars and racks, good acoustics with adequate audio, often fly towers and of course curtains. The Production I work on now will be done in a Circus Tent and tour. This brings elements into play much like the differences between Studio Work and Location Work in Film making. It is without a doubt my most ambitious undertaking. Seven Wagnerian Rings of Epic Rock.

With the last 3 hr. Show rehearsals would take place with a run through stopping where needed until we had gone through all the songs. then a break of a half hour and another run through. We did this three times each week. After we got so we could do the entire show without stopping both times, then the techies were brought in to get tight with us. I rehearsed the Dancers seperately until everything was ready and tight with the musicians and Techies. Then the Dancers came in and the costumes and stageplay were developed as part of the show. Once all this was deemed adequate then Rehearsals were still done three times a week but with only one run through. At this point there were no cheat sheets and purposefully the entire show would be rehearsed virtually in near dark lighting just to ascertain that everyone knew what they were doing.

The last show of 3 hours took me two years to put together. This one I work on now has taken me nearly a decade to compose it. I am now ready to begin working on bringing the music to life. This is why i prefer working with a keyboardist at this point. It all has been interesting in getting to this point. I am a Dictator when it comes to these Productions, if I was not then nothing would get done. Despite how horrible all this may sound, it is actually quite fun, rewarding and creates an experience and accomplishment that all involved come to appreciate and value as time passes. And yes most assuredly I as well as many others at times consider myself quite mad, an AssHole, a Dictator and in brief flickers of time and moment a Genius.

Jeff's post nails it- it's the type of music you are playing. Nothing against the music that Mark or Jook are playing, it just has different requirements.

different requirements? oh...you BETTER believe it!

but The 121's play classic country like Haggard, Jones, Strait, Cash...occasional contemp ctry from artists like Keith Urban, classic rock from CCR, Stones, Beatles, Allman Bros, and blues tunes from the the Kings, Howlin' Wolf, SRV, etc.
and trust me, there are no "jam it out and hope for the best type endings".

and MERE MORTALS , my bluegrass band......it's a long way from being a "jam band" either. funny, that's the one band that regularly practices/rehearses...and it is HANDS DOWN the band that sounds the LEAST rehearsed!


As i see it, listening to each other and having the skills to think on your feet, and play a song you haven't rehearsed (or even even HEARD) before is just something that i consider to be a basic and required skill for any serious pro musician.

the bassplayer who ballsed up your CARS tune....the fact that someone studied at Berklee or wherever and plays jazz or whatever....but CAN'T follow the changes to a three chord CARS tune..that has nothing to do w what he's studied.....it's simply evidence of his inexperience and/or lack of communication skills. (being able to read cues and gestures).....it has NOTHING to do w the fact that he's a jazzer!

if anything i'd rather take my chances WITH a jazzer on a pick up gig because in theory ("in theory"...see what i DID there?) they SHOULD have the ability to think on their feet and be in the moment, reading the situation, and reacting accordingly.

that's one those qualities i do look for in musicians, and it's another yardstick that separates the men from the boys for me. it's an important skill to have if you're gonna play anything but note for note cover tunes. i'm not putting that down. there's lots of skill required to do that note for note cover thing well. but there you go..."different requirements" for different music! if you're playing that only....you don't really need that "react in moment skill set ".

Case in point here, the bassist has the right-brain thing down to a tee but he hasn't developed intuitive skills to catch cues to find the changes. A musician can practice 12 hours a day for years and miss the boat when it comes down to listening and watching others in a band situation.)

well said, jook.

fact is some people are more spontaneous, and though perfectly capable of repeating a part the exact way each time....they also possess the wherewithall to react on their feet and be in the moment.... perfectly PRESENT and "in the room". and that is a JOY when you can not only make it across the tightrope.... but you pulled off a nicely executed pliay along the way! it's also a fun and rewarding challenge.

i don't think it's a fluke or the exception, that in over 40 yrs of playing in bands... i've played in lots of bands w musicians who could pull that off. (yeah, i do consider myself lucky and fortunate too.)

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