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The reason I'm packin' two synthesizers is not only because they sound good together, but I'll have a spare, just in case I "punch out" a touch sense velocity strip, or one of them starts cryin' out for a new memory battery.(I hear they last ten years so both are way over due for replacement, ... my bad ... I don't change the oil in my truck enough either)

Same goes for power amps , I sometimes run the big guy "full range stereo", utilizing the passive crossovers in the speakers. I still have extra amps in the rack.

I don't advocate "over the top" sound systems for small venues however.
The little compact Peavey system like the one KoolMom recently bought new for less then a grand is ideal for most small group and venue applications. Most modern music sound equipment these days are of high quality, reasonably priced, and do the job dependably.

I'm not a fan of huge PA systems either, thanks but I have a hernia already...

Board, mains, monitors and a couple of good power amps, you're set. But there is something to be said for those big Peavey speakers...as much as I hate to lug them in they do sound great, then again the newer wedge shaped ones are sounding pretty good too. Friday night we used some EV speakers that were big but not as big as the okld Peaveys, and a powered mixer, it did the job pretty well but no monitors made vocals a bit tricky. I've never been a big fan of powered mixers, but some of the newer ones are getting a lot better it seems.

I also have settled on a 45 watt Super Reverb for the guitar amp, I just set the volume of the Peavey (30/130 watts) to match it, that one's for clean so I don't need it cranked. the Super Reverb makes a great amp, it's too loud in small clubs, so I have to keep it down a little but in a decent size place with any people it works perfectr cranked to 10 and if I need more I can mic it. It also acts as a master volume for the whole band, if you can't hear that amp you need to turn down. Full tilt with everyone set so the Super Reverb is on top (for leads anyway) it's not too loud for most clubs.

In two guitar bands, put the guitars on opposite sides of the stage, or they'll be fighting to hear themselves all night, you'll end up way loud. You'll end up loud anyway, guitar players are notorious for playing too loud. Myself included, I'm guilty and don't deny it but I try and keep it bearable...

Howlin you're another one that I wish weren't a 15 hour drive away. Keyboard players aren't easy to find to begin with, and the only one I've worked with around here carried a half pint in his back pocket and the first thing he always did was interrupt me while I was unloading my rig to try and bum a joint...after I told him a dozen times I don't drink or smoke when I play and don't bring any with me...he was the one that stood there and watched while we unloaded/loaded equipment, I had to get pissed and tell him he BETTER bring his own amp inside when I was unloading the trailer and it was in my way. First two times I told him to take his amp inside he stood there 6 feet away and ignored me. He also kept his amp as close to his ear as he could get it, which meant it was so low we couldn't hear him at all, which was fine with me after he took about a half dozen chugs off the bottle, he played sloppy to begin with, by the second set he couldn't play at all.

So yeah, I wish some of these guys with some experience, integrity and common sense were a bit closer than a two day drive...

I'm also big on the performance part too, I hate to see people stand there looking bored, especially the older guys with beer guts...they're always the ones in sloppy t-shirts it seems too. If you don't care what you look like, I won't take your band seriously and will be much more critical of the sound itself than with a band that shows up dressed to entertain. Look at the aaudience now and then, just over their heads works well, everyone thinks you're looking at them. Interact with the audience, pull a (clean please) joke now and then, or a good one liner, especially if you can tag one on a comment from the audience. Someone yells for a really common song I'll say "Who said that?...Go to your room" and make sure everyone knows I'm joking. We'll probably play it a couple of songs later but I don't let them know that...

Take no longer than 15 seconds between songs. I can change guitars in 10 seconds, so don't wait for me, make a quick comment and I'm ready to go. If you take more than 30 seconds you're losing their attention. It's hard to get it back. Use a song list and stick to it. If someone has a request, replace it with another song and make sure it doesn't throw the timing of your set off. Don't play another slow one just because it was requested when it's time to pick up the pace. Wait a song or three and play it when it's time for another slow one.

Nobody onstage but band members. A former band leader's wife would wander up onstage and dance behind him during a few songs, it drove me crazy. Not only was she usually half plastered, she wasn't much of a dancer and it looked almost as bad as the lyric sheets he kept on a stand in front of him. If you're too lazy to memorize the lyrics, you don't need to be a singer. Fortunately he didn't drink and was an excellent bass player, but his wife just about drove me out of the band. In addition to getting onstage where she didn't belong she was an obnoxious drunk and several clubs didn't like hiring us because of her mouth. In the end he couldn't book anywhere locally and had to go elsewhere...and that's only the beginning of that story...it got lots worse.

Great thread whoever it was that posted the thing, some really good ideas here for getting the sound and stage setup dialed in. Sorry if I rant a little, some or most of this should be common sense and I've seen far too many musicians who never even considered some of the finer points that make a band look good or bad, both visually and musically. I'm even picky about the placement of everything onstage, and careful to make sure all my wires are duct taped to the floor in one neat bundle going straight to my amps. Extra wire is rolled up and tucked under or behind the amps. Wire bags and guitar cases go back out to the truck till it's time to load up. When I switched to a 7 guitar stand, sax stand, lap steel on a keyboard stand and dual amp rig I set it up every way I could and took pictures, just to see what looked best and neatest onstage. I don't bring the lap steel any more, it's an antique and I don't want it beat around by drunk musicians.

If you saw what i use for a PA, you'd laugh like a crazy man. That is until i fired it up.

If you use less and make it more, it works fine unless you are playing at the Super Bowl and/or trying to contact aliens from outer space. (We already made contact) lol

Tell em to send Elvis back will ya.

They did send him back, only he's a little different now.

I think his name is "Elvo", you know the spanish Elvis. lol

(I like Elvo better anyway, Elvis was a fat pill popping, weirdo)

Got to suck dyin on the crapper. I would prefer leaning up against a stump out in the forrest with my flintlock across my lap. Let the bugs have my carcass.

I can't say much about covers..

Someone said original bands should have a few covers to keep the crowd interested.. I disagree, unless your originals suck.

Places we play we would get thrown out (literaly in a few places) if we even started playing a cover. We do shows where people are expecting original music.

Now as far as originals go and sounding tight,,

The biggest improvement we had was when we recorded. When practicing you don't really hear every note each member is playing so if someone is playing a wrong note here and there you sometimes don't catch it.

Getting in the studio and hearing each individual part shows little mistakes someone might be making and I guarantee a band will be much more tight after a few days recording.

Also don't play volume wars with the other members, what you hear standing in front of your amp is not the same as what is happening 20 ft out or more. The worse thing I've experienced is everyone turning up louder because they can't hear themselves very well, and it ends up with everyone blaring so loud it all sounds like sh*t.

yeah metalers always insist that it needs to be super body thumping loud and forget that sound uses air and there is only so much that can get pounded out at once, every so often a good act will get the live mix right but thats pretty rare....its not like every venue is a huge arena (for which I'm thankful) not that I'm going to be gigging any time soon but still i don't wanna haul a dual channel setup

Excellent tips on this site, it's actually nice to read about stuff from people who actually know what they are talking about.

I agree with the majority of you.

Ive played, small pubs, medium clubs, to a main stage at a biker rally.The set is the key, we used to do two sets in the pubs and clubs, so we had about 30 songs, out of those we would pick a range for each set, (It was a Black Sabbath tribute band) so we would hit the set hard, opening with Symptom of the Universe, then straight into Electric Funeral.

I guess it's keeping the balance right across your set, keeping the audience entertained is the most important thing.

Also I would say, practice, practice, practice, but also invite your friends to come and listen to you, they will noramally say if something is'nt working, and get them to be honest about how your set flows.

Before we started gigging, we had practiced for over 6 months, twice a week, getting the set just right, learning the songs inside out, so that any point you knew where you was in the song.

Sound, when we first kicked off, because of the type of music we was doing, ofcourse we would all hit max volume...the drummer used to shout at us....turn the f*ck down, and we'd be like...yeah well your drums are to loud!! In the end, we learnt, I used to drive a 120w laney, with a 4x4 cab, bass player had a 300w trace elliot. We spoke to people in music shops got their tips on how to get a great sound, and you learn as you go along. We ended up buying a 2000w p.a system and deck, we had four outboard speakers, and four monitors. We then used to mic up the drums and the amps.This in turn helped with the sound, as on stage I would be on about 4 on the volume of the amp, but could hear everything.Ofcourse it was loud for the audience, but that's what they want at that sort of gig.

We played one gig, in a really small pub, it was packed, and we had just finished War Pigs, everyone was sweating their arse off. Our singer then started to sing...."it's gettin hot in here...so take off all your clothes" it was the funniest thing...everyone in the audienece started singing, and taking of their tops...you had to see it to believe it....but it was fun !

Wow great topic indeed! I've like most of you have done a lot of stage time as well. There is no substitute for balance of volumes and tonal qualitites and you guys workin with two or more guuitars are certainly aware of this. Multiple guitar affects from multiple guitars can sound like a train wreck if not dialed in correctly.

Bass players must remember that our sound travels in a long wave and what is not loud from 5 ft. has a serious presence at 20 ft. I am guilty of this oversite and as a result tend to play loud and 16 ten inch speakers emphasize this point greatly!

From a crowd point of view its all about the vocals and as much as we'd like to think that most listeners are capturing every nuance of a well scripted lead or bass run they're usually not. Vocals must stand out and have the tonal qualities necessary to establish mood. A mix of original and well chosen covers wil make your night memorablel

The importance of tag lines is often overlooked, especially if your band is good enough to create new music live. Stage monitors, the players secret to tightness will always help keep the creative flow going in a positive direction. I could go on with this great topic. What do you guys and girls think about de-tuning and multiple guitars for diversity?

What do you guys and girls think about de-tuning and multiple guitars for diversity?

I think multiple guitars can be awesome sonically. Can't have to many effects or too much wet going on though.
However... having multiple guitarists throughout the writing process is a prelude to madness.

I think de-tuning more than a whole tone muddys stuff up.

Yada Yada Yada Yada Yada Yada

Better equipment, practise and better taking care of myself ( exercise and healthy foods) lol. It does make a difference on teh energy level, so I can work longer, better and more efficiently and more often especially.

Well, I've been called a Music Nazi from time to time because of my attitude on stage and during practice. I've seen that someone mentioned cues in the music and arrangement and I think that's a big one, something I've more recently grown to understand.

Our bass player, JD, is an older man in his forties, which gives us a huge age gap being as I'm only 24, so I've been able to learn a lot from him and he brought something up to me that was kind of fascinating.

In the middle of jamming through one of our songs, "Innocent Little Changes", I thought everything was going fine and dandy; finally starting to sound how we wanted it to. But when we were all done and over with, JD said, "You know, that's a good song, but we just haven't figured out the dynamic in it yet." I was confused. I thought we did a great job. But he went on to explain that we needed to know when to play softer, come in together harder, accentuate the vocals more here, accentuate the guitar or bass here. It was a lot for me to take in because I hadn't ever thought about it that way. But there's dynamic all the way down to the song and note level. Make it right, play it the way it needs to be played or should be played. Make the song create a "Feeling" and give it depth rather than making it plain and "Static". That's what I learned from that one and it was an important lesson.

Well, in all honesty, much of today's music is seriously lacking in the dynamics dept.

Listening to much of it, all you hear is a mash of power chords under a rough, constantly loud vocal with amazing bass work & lots of powerful drumming. It starts loud. It stays loud. It ends loud. It's monochromatic rage, & it gets boring after the 1st song.

The emotional essence of the song becomes enhanced when you have instruments falling in, dropping out, changing tones & volumes, when the vocalist can go from loud & harsh to soft & back. Even if the song is screamingly angry, using control of the instruments & vocalists is a much better approach than all-out high-volume rage from start to end.

That's how I see it, anyway - having control over your musically expressed emotions. It's so much more expressive.

I've heard it said by many ppl. It isn't necessarilly what you play. Sometimes it's what you don't play.

A pause in a song says a whole lot. So does a soft touch here & there.

Your "aged" bass player is quite right, STS. (I'm 53 & still at it.)