General Music Chat

The "librul media" again. Always good for a chuckle.

Well, that's pretty lame Irminsul. Only your boogiemen exist and no one elses? The majority of the media is liberal. It is a well documented fact. This isn't up for dispute, any more than that the Earth revolves around the sun. I'm not going to debate that with you either. And you can laugh over that too.

Only 6% of those in journalism consider themselves conservative. That is a HUGE disproportionate figure. You label the establishment as the "good ole boys club" and I don't dispute that with you. Those with wealth and power, generally find working relationships with one another that protect their holding on to what they have. There is a "good ole boys club" (in general) and there is liberal bias in the major media. (in general)

Why do you find it necessary to debate the obvious?

And you clearly didn't hear the entire Rev. Wright speech, it's on YouTube in two chunks if you want to actually educate yourself on it (which I doubt).

Here, you are avoiding the question I asked you "Do you believe that Rev. Wright is correct, that HIV/AIDS was created in a lab, by the government, and spread by the government throughout the black community as a form of genocide against blacks? Do you believe that the government provides drugs to black people, so they will become criminals and we can just put them all in prison? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was a black man?

You claimed that no one provided you with positions from Rev. Wright that are false. I provided you with three. Do I win a prize? Yes or no? Or do you in fact, believe, such ridiculous propaganda?

Craig please don't go waving the flag in my face. It's crass, stupid, and I expect better of someone of your intelligence.

I don't find patriotism to be crass, stupid or unintelligent in the least. While I didn't serve in war, I know MANY, hell MANY MANY MANY who have. They are friends and family and fans of my band. I talk with them and see them EVERY day. They are people I went to church with. People I walked with during Desert Storm, when we went and confronted the Jane Fondaless protestors in Washington DC.

I didn't serve in war, but I know enough about those who have, and I love my country enough and what it stands for enough, that I can cry, and often have, when the Star Spangled Banner is played. If you don't know that feeling, I feel truly sorry for you. what is a flag in your face, according to you, is the deepest love of country for me.

See, playing the worst element in our society isn't a good idea, and Obama realizes this too. Good on him for that.

Obama associates with the worst elements of our society. And those who he associates with, associate with worse people, even further down the food chain.

Obama has a history of being a good liar, and suffers from severe issues of conscience and self worth. These are directly related to what a loser his father was. A truly despicable man, in whom Obama claims to have patterned himself after. This man doesn't want to truly bring the races together. He has spent his lifetime, struggling with his own racial identity, the white part, which he usually has dismissed and distanced himself from, in favor of identifying himself only with blacks. He almost brags of this conscious decision in his first book. What tortures him, is that while finding identity in his father's image, it was actually the white side of his family which raised him, and sent him to Ivy League schools like Harvard, and provided the very opportunity, he now has thrown away. How torturing it must be, when the world sees you as black, because you look black, and they are unaware of your white mother without being told, and so you consciously align yourself with your radical black father, but yet it is the white family that raised you, loved you, and made the way for a successful career for you. He is so father-less, in his lack of self-confidence, that he has betrayed a whole side to his family, simply to identify with the father, who was never there, and who he had an almost non-existent relationship with.

My father and mother divorced when I was two, he was a racist and alcoholic. I loved him, and I accept that he had some redeeming qualities too, but God in heaven, I would NEVER write a book honoring him, as my inspiration in life. My mother is the one that was there for me. I know how it feels to be virtually fatherless, I hardly ever saw him after I was two, and NEVER saw him again after I was 18. I have ALL the feelings Obama will ever have regarding a missing father, but I am not going to invent some delusional history, as Obama has, of a man who was NOT what the delusion suggests, and then try and live up to the lie. How twisted. It's been hard for me to make it without a father to rely on. Guess what? I decided long ago that God was my father, and I could not ask for a better and more loving father. On the rare occassions that I have felt sorry for myself, concerning my supposed lack of a father, I have always suddenly felt a rush of God's love over me, and apologized to God, asking him to forgive me for forgetting, even momentarily, that I have a father that is ALWAYS there for me.

So while you're writing obits for him, I thought I'd throw in that he's winning more delegates and increasing his delegate lead against the Hillarbeast.

Yeah, with Richardson. LOL

What choice did Richardson have? He knows Hillary ain't giving him sh*t in her administration. All he has is Oabama.

LMAO

I want an answer to my question!

Do you agree with these Rev. Wright Positions:


1) The government created the AIDS virus, in order to inflict genocide on black people.

2) The government gives drugs to blacks in order to incarcerate them, and builds more prisons to accomplish this agenda.

3) Jesus Christ was a black man.


Everyone's waiting Irminsul.

I listened to the Wright hate speech. And that's all it was. There was very little fact in anything he said. It was only meant to pander to the congregation's fears. The government did not invent AIDS, did not import cocaine to trap blacks, and Jesus was not black, he was Jew from the middle east. Wright is a racist, and by extension, Obama may very well be one as well. I'm a lifelong Democrat but will vote for McCain if Obama is the candidate.

I listened to the Wright hate speech. And that's all it was. There was very little fact in anything he said. It was only meant to pander to the congregation's fears. The government did not invent AIDS, did not import cocaine to trap blacks, and Jesus was not black, he was Jew from the middle east. Wright is a racist, and by extension, Obama may very well be one as well. I'm a lifelong Democrat but will vote for McCain if Obama is the candidate.

This country is filled with basically decent, well meaning people. No other country on the face of the earth gives as much to charity as this country does. Nowhere on earth is there such a diversity of religious beliefs and houses of worship, co-existing, as you will find here. This country has made it's share of mistakes, but NO OTHER COUNTRY in history, has brought about as much change for good in the world, as this one has.

I NEVER thought I would see the day, where I turned on the news and saw mayors of cities... MAYORS... publicly proclaim their city as a "haven" for illegals (sorry, the buzz word is: undocumented). I can't get into friggin' Disney World without being stopped at the gate, and paying my admittance fee. Is the sovereignty of this nation, less valuable than the sovereignty of Disney World???

This country is generous. We are forgiving. Because of our goodness, we easily open our hearts to the plight of illegals wanting to better their lives. We understand. We have not made them criminals, we just send them back, and only when they get into serious legal trouble or serious criminal activity. They know this. So they fear little from the goverment. So much so, that they will show up at rallies and town hall meetings, and demand to speak, as an illegal, about what our nation should do, regarding laws concerning illegals. And AMAZINGLY, they are often allowed to. They are heard. Though they are illegal and have NO right to speak in support of or in opposition to, ANY of our laws. They are NOT citizens, they are illegals!

But our good nature, has allowed us to break our backs in stretching the laws, and turning a blind eye.

But the WHACKOS like the politicians, who seem to believe that ANYONE can cross our borders ANYTIME they want to, have taken our goodness, and are about to strangle us to death with it, as they go into the twilight zone, and off the deep end, of REALITY, and turn entire cities into haven cities!

WTF????

Besides just the common sense, that in an age of terrorism, we can no longer turn a blind eye to border security.... besides just the common sense of that...

IT THREATENS OUR SOVEREIGNTY FOLKS!!!!!!!

We are selling the farm! No, giving it away!


We've got IDIOTS that think our soverign nation is a public park. We've got everyone fawning over a smooth talker that has radical ties to racists and black supremacists. We're justifying ministers, like Wright, who simulate sex acts FROM THE PULPIT!!!! MINISTERS!!!! We've got ultraliberals who want to have "diplomacy" with terrorists, and states that sponsor terrorism. Blow up some planes and boats and nightclubs with civilians in them.... kill alot of innocent people... and we'll come to the table and talk with you about it. You cannot reason with psychopathic, religiously motivated murderers. PERIOD!!!

This country needs to find it's soul again, and find it quick!

Are we musicians in a bandmix forum, or activists in a political think tank forum????

I want an answer to my question!

Do you agree with these Rev. Wright Positions:


1) The government created the AIDS virus, in order to inflict genocide on black people.

2) The government gives drugs to blacks in order to incarcerate them, and builds more prisons to accomplish this agenda.

3) Jesus Christ was a black man.


Everyone's waiting Irminsul.

Everyone's waiting, or you are?

The Wright positions I was speaking of were in the 15 to 20 second clip being played over and over (like the Dean Scream). None of what you mentioned above was in said clip. Although, Jesus may have been Black, who knows (I know who CARES though!)

Wright said that our shitty (my word) MidEast policy has created hatred for us that culminated in the 9/11 attacks - TRUE.

Wright said that we have subjugated, denigrated or ignored the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people - TRUE

Wright said that, because of this, the "chickens are coming home to roost." - TRUE.

So don't blame me if the rightwing media was stupid enough to pick a clip of Wright's sermon that was undeniably true. The other stuff you mention - government made HIV and gov't passed out drugs to create a base for the private prison complex, has not been proven true to my knowledge - but it hasn't yet been proven false either. So, at best, your case is built on a giant MAYBE.

Anything else?

Are we musicians in a bandmix forum, or activists in a political think tank forum????

Sometimes, I think, we are musicians who wake up confused and think we are congresspeople stumping for office.

Just sit back and let it pass, it always does.

I'll bring popcorn to these arguments. Lol

Yeah, or Tums and a barf bag.

Everyone's waiting, or you are?

You're kidding right?

Some people bring popcorn to our little debates!

The other stuff you mention - government made HIV

(snip)

has not been proven true to my knowledge - but it hasn't yet been proven false either.

Hasn't it?


AIDS traced to African monkeys

Friday, June 13, 2003


LONDON, England -- An international group of scientists has traced the ancestry of the virus that caused AIDS back to strains found in African monkeys.

Two different monkey virus strains combined in chimpanzees to create the HIV virus which was then passed on to humans, the scientists told the journal Science.

Earlier studies had shown that humans contracted the virus that attacks the immune system from chimps, but were unable to determine where the chimps got the virus from.

---

The virus was passed onto chimpanzees when they ate infected monkey meat, believe the scientists from universities in France, America and the UK.

---

Troops of chimpanzees -- who are apes -- chase monkeys through forests while others wait in trees to catch the monkeys as they run past. The carcasses are ripped apart and eaten on the spot so blood mixing is possible, one scientist said according to The New York Times.

The new evidence suggests that the viral DNA combined to create a hybrid strain from which HIV can be traced.

How humans contracted the deadly virus remains a mystery although it is believed that it was contracted in the same way as chimps through hunting 'bush meat'.

It is generally believed that a chimpanzee hunter contracted the virus in the early part of the twentieth century by cutting himself while preparing the meat.

The virus then mutated into HIV and was passed through millions of human beings.

"The recombination of these monkey viruses happened in chimpanzees and the chimp transmitted it to humans on at least three occasions," said Frederic Bibollet-Ruche, co-author of the study to The Associated Press.

"The transfer between chimps and humans probably happened before 1930," said Bibollet-Ruche from the University of Alabama, Birmingham.


FULL ARTICLE:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/06/13/monkeys.aid/

Nice try, Craig. "It is generally believed that" is not the same as "It has been proven that".

So basically, back to square one with ye.

Here, you are avoiding the question I asked you "Do you believe that Rev. Wright is correct, that HIV/AIDS was created in a lab, by the government, and spread by the government throughout the black community as a form of genocide against blacks? Do you believe that the government provides drugs to black people, so they will become criminals and we can just put them all in prison? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was a black man?

False premise, as you were told that my comments were about that never ending clip that's being scrutinized 24-7 on the news shows. And, those points were reiterated to you yet again. No comment from Craig.

Was Christ a Black man? My honest answer - I don't know, and I don't care. Since I'm not a Christian, I don't have "beliefs" about that questions either way. Why does the possibility of Christ's Blackness bother you so, Craig? That says more than the question itself.

I don't find patriotism to be crass, stupid or unintelligent in the least. While I didn't serve in war, I know MANY, hell MANY MANY MANY who have. They are friends and family and fans of my band. I talk with them and see them EVERY day. They are people I went to church with. People I walked with during Desert Storm, ....

Craig, ya gotta read the words. I said CRASS patriotism, not all patriotism. Crass is an adjective. And I am repulsed by crass patriotism - the sort that searches for your little flag pin on your lapel or waving a flag in someone's face as a replacement for deeper thought or willingness to hold one's own nation to a better standard of behavior.

Samuel Johnson did us a big favor when he admonised "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" for that reason. Goodness, you better go after him, because he didn't even use a qualifier for patriotism like I did.

Yeah, with Richardson. LOL

What choice did Richardson have? He knows Hillary ain't giving him sh*t in her administration. All he has is Oabama.

LMAO

I guess you don't know much about Richardson.

He is a stalwart of the DLC, that is the Hillary wing (conservative) of the Democratic party. He and Bill are good friends...not like on paper, but visit each other for the holidays type friends. There is no doubt he could just about write his ticket in a Hillary presidency, but instead he is endorsing Obama. This really shocked me by the way. But again, you'd have to know about Bill R., which you clearly didn't.

Obama is still racking up the delegates, there will be a floor fight at convention, and John McCain has a parallel problem with this nutcase John Hagee. As soon as that gets the sustained media attention that Rev. Wright's comments have, your boy's in some deep kimchee.

I'll give you one thing, though - you have illustrated (although likely not intentionally) how insane many Americans can get when Black folk get all uppity, or claim that the Prince of Peace may have been one of them. I guess we really haven't come that far from the end of the Civil War, have we.

Nice try, Craig. "It is generally believed that" is not the same as "It has been proven that".

So basically, back to square one with ye.

Really?


How do you feel about...


The Big Bang - THEORY
Evolution - THEORY

What about...

Einstein's THEORY of Relativity?


Science we readily accept as conclusive, is in fact THEORETICAL. When there is general consensus among scientists, we place great weight on those conclusions.

But when biologists postulate a GENERALLY believed theory that AIDS developed naturally, since the early 1900's, BUT IT CONFLICTS WITH REV. WRIGHT you don't put much emphasis on it then do you?

Rev. Wright must know more than professional biologists!


Can you hear Obama singing to you....

"I've got you.... under my spell"

LMAO

It is intellectually dishonest to disavow the logic you might ordinarily accept, merely because you don't like where it takes you.

I think we've seen quite a bit of that from you here.

I found a long time ago, that life is better, and more honest, when you admit you are wrong, accept the truth and move on. No worming around, is ever needed afterward, and there is the side benefit of getting to be "right" on that particular issue the next time.

Try it!

How do you feel about...


The Big Bang - THEORY
Evolution - THEORY

What about...

Einstein's THEORY of Relativity?

I'd call them damn good theories that have stood the test of time and a lot of scientific scrutiny.

When AIDS/HIV research hits that mark, let's revisit the question.

I found a long time ago, that life is better, and more honest, when you admit you are wrong, accept the truth and move on. No worming around, is ever needed afterward, and there is the side benefit of getting to be "right" on that particular issue the next time.

Try it!

Unfortunately for you, you are neither "right" on this subject nor is being "right" so deadly important for me. You have your ego too invested in these things Craig, and they don't make you look very good.

Stick to music

I'll give you one thing, though - you have illustrated (although likely not intentionally) how insane many Americans can get when Black folk get all uppity, or claim that the Prince of Peace may have been one of them. I guess we really haven't come that far from the end of the Civil War, have we.

Well, you ASSUME alot of sh*t you are way off base on.


First:

NOT ONCE have I seen anyone jump on that particular remark. Even in the blogs. It is the anti-American rhetoric that has everyone up in arms, as well as the racial bias, and racial slurs.


Second:

The only reason it means anything to me, about Christ being black, is that he wasn't, and it is IMPOSSIBLE that he could have been. But the fact that Rev. Wright preaches that he is, says ALOT about Rev. Wright, not Craig Maxim.

Wright NEEDS to believe he was black, because the alternative, and truth, that he was a Jew, is far too painful, when you rail against Jews like Wright does, and consort with people who want to wipe Jews off the planet like Gaddafi does, and consort with others, who call Judaism a "gutter religion" like Farrakhan does.

Better just to make Christ black. Wouldn't want to have the founder of the faith be a Jew now would we? Not if you are Wright.


Third:


You are talking to one of the most NON-racist white people you ever knew. Not only would it NOT matter whether Jesus was black or not, were it true, but ALL civilization originated in Africa, which would suggest that WE ARE ALL descended from the black race. In fact, that is not a supposition, it is FACT.

A common ancestor nick-named "Eve" (cute huh? LOL) was unearthed maybe a decade or two ago, and the interesting thing about "Eve" is that she shares DNA with... get ready... ALL LIVING HUMAN BEINGS.

So, even if you don't believe the biblical account, that we are all related, you can be a damn atheist, and accept the scientific account that WE ARE ALL RELATED!

I happen to love this scientific discovery, because when haters and especially racists (of any color) begin spewing their venom, I like to point out to them that WE ARE ALL - VERY LITERALLY - Family. Go far enough back, and WE ALL share a common set of ancestors.

In the immortal words of the Pointer Sisters (will the congregation rise please) "We Are... Fa-mi-ly" - are you singing with me Irmy?


I am so non-racist it's not even funny. I find black women VERY attractive (and Asians and Indians and I'm wondering what some interstellar babes might look like too) and would marry one and have babies just as easily as I could ANY other race.

I mention this, not to be superficial, but because, while it is not a conclusive litmus test, the questions "Would you sleep with a black person" or "Would you ever marry a black person" are good questions to pose when someone claims "I am not racist". I often find that the answer is no, to at least one of those questions. Although, decade after decade, this is becoming less and less. Which is awesome.

My father, was pretty racist. I was born in the South. I have racists in my family. Not the mean ones, but racists to some degree just the same. I should have learned it I guess, but somehow I never did.

Many times in life, I had a "best" friend that was black, when I was growing up and into adulthood. When I was VERY young, and still having visitation with my father, my best friend in the whole world was black. We would walk down the school hall, arms across shoulders, happy as two peas in a pod. We may as well have been brothers separated at birth. But when I visited my father, the "N" word would come from his mouth occassionally, and I would "gently" try and tell him that the word was bad. This is in late 60's my friend. And in the south at that!

When I worked in Mobile Alabama, to be honest, I am lucky to be alive. Cause it is a BASTIAN of racism and there are no shortage of KKK members there. And me, in all my idealism and just heart felt beliefs, would call them on it all the time. In fact, I lost my job at one restaurant, just because the owner found out that I was hanging out with the black guys in the kitchen after work, and I would take them to the white clubs, and they would take me to the black clubs.

And in Mobile? Let me tell you. I was the ONLY white person at some of these clubs, in 20 square miles. If someone started to give me sh*t, my black friends, would get up and stand around me.

One time, in my 20's I sent some pictures of me and my best friend (a black dude) to my uncle. Years later, I visited him in his apartment, and saw the pictures displayed in picture cubes. He had cut my friend out of them.

So, once again my friend. You are WAY WAY off target.

No one can make me racist...

My father was racist - I didn't become racist
My family had racists - I didn't become racist
I was born in the south - I didn't become racist
I lost my job over racism - I didn't become racist
I lived in the middle of KKK holy ground - I didn't become racist

And this last one, I am sorry to share in this forum like this, but...

My father was later murdered by a black guy after arguing with him.

I'm still not racist.