General Music Chat

Here's a guy playing a fast song, so we can tell if 'es any good or not
https://youtu.be/uAA8RyMjj9A

Bro, I'm not hating on your music, ok? I really really loved this AND Nag.

But you said she was "1000 times better" than Jimmy Page and we're going round and round until you admit that is a gross exaggeration

To prove that I'm into world music, this is the band I put together in 2013 to record my last 3 albums. We toured in the east 2013, and two months in Europe in 2014. They now have their own album and will do a tour with me in the USA this July.

http://miqedem.bandcamp.com/album/miqedem


Now, I liked this guy you just posted...but no...he is NOT fast.

Here is another player I used from 1996 to 2009 if you want to see fast. I think you could make the case that Andy is better than Jimmy Page...but again....he came after so it's not a fair comparison. I could spend the rest of my life practicing and not be able to pull off a reasonable facsimile, nor imitate this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBbfScqArRg



Mark, please note that he uses all of his fingers. And before you go hating on him because he's faster than anyone you might point at, I use him because he is incredibly talented in any genre you could name. He has a Master's degree in jazz from University of Miami, he can play cuban, pop, country, blues, folk, classical... he even plays electric sitar on one of my songs (Mimizrach).

And he's usually better than anyone I've ever seen play no matter the genre....I've never seen him stumped.

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Mark, it's a different style but if you watched that video, Nag is only using one or two of her left-hand fingers and doing a very simple picking with her right. She's playing a slow song in an open tuning. Sorry but that ain't no big deal. Easy to imitate for any guitarist worth his salt.

Easy to imitate? that's your subjective opinion. and really if you believe so, it'd be easy enough for you to take two wks and show us that's true.

here's the deal as i see it....

subjectively....you merely see this as "some woman only using one or two fingers of her left hand playing a slow piece w simple picking". c'mon, nothing to it....anyone can imitate that!

others however see a little deeper (sorry, that's not meant as a slight) and recognize there's a lot more going on there. humor me and entertain the notion for just a second that perhaps there IS more going on than what meets YOUR eyes and ears.

it's not unlike someone seeing the Mona Lisa for the first time and remarking...."hey, what the big effin' deal? it's just some painting of some unattractive woman w a creepy smile. quite dark too. i bet i could do that....or anyone w average painting skills for that matter!"

that's their takeaway. they don't recognize that's there's a lot more going on than just what THEY see on the superficial surface level.

As it is, he can do a decent imitation of the genre because it's not difficult to play on one string with an open tuning.

and there you have more subjective opinion. YOU think he does a "decent imitation". clearly others are less impressed w his "imitation".

What he said was that she "blows Page away 1000 times over". If you agree with that, you just lost all credibility as a musician.

My credibilty as a musician has little or nothing to do w my opinions about Page or Nag. Either I can play.... or I can't. And my OPINIONS of them have no relevance to my musicianship.

if J did say that (i must have missed it) that is HIS opinion and he's welcome to it. it does nothing to diminish my assessment of his "credibility" as a musician. he can still play.

look..this is ALL subjective stuff when ya come down to it!

Fast isn't the ultimate goal, but someone who can play great and fast (if the song calls for it) has more musical ability than someone who can only play great.

Whether someone likes it or not is subjective.

you know...playing fast actually IS the ultimate goal for too many musicians. and certainly it's the takeaway and the thing that impresses people who are moved by exciting feats of strengths and speed. (i bet the guy who was unimpressed by the Mona Lisa gets a woodie every time some wanker plays 32nd notes at 160 bpm!)

but yes, my saying that playing fast doesn't mean sh*t to me IS subjective. of COURSE it's subjective...i'm telling you what gets it FOR ME. YMMV

I don't think you're being intellectually honest, Mark.

Many have imitated Mona Lisa, but there was only one Leonardo DaVinci. He created new things no one had done before. That is the difference you refuse to acknowledge.


When someone's fingers don't move any faster than mine and they are only using a couple of fingers to bend a single string...well....sorry if you don't believe it but that ain't hard to imitate.
For example, I can't speak in any language but english, but I sing in 5 languages because I can imitate the syllable's. This song is no different. I don't have to dedicate myself to hearing all the intricacies of the genre to be able to imitate the melody of a song, if it's within my physical capability.

Almost anyone here can do a reasonable facsimile given the time. It's not as hard as learning Stairway to Heaven, which requires all fingers to be used and goes through some fast notes towards the end.

Sorry guys....you just don't have a leg to stand on if you think this woman is "1,000 times better" than Jimmy Page.

She's good, yeah, but is more easily imitated than him and is not breaking any new ground



That's the objective truth.


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Here is another player I used from 1996 to 2009 if you want to see fast. I think you could make the case that Andy is better than Jimmy Page...but again....he came after so it's not a fair comparison. I could spend the rest of my life practicing and not be able to pull off a reasonable facsimile, nor imitate this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBbfScqArRg


Mark, please note that he uses all of his fingers. And before you go hating on him because he's faster than anyone you might point at, I use him because he is incredibly talented in any genre you could name. He has a Master's degree in jazz from University of Miami, he can play cuban, pop, country, blues, folk, classical... he even plays electric sitar on one of my songs (Mimizrach).

And he's usually better than anyone I've ever seen play no matter the genre....I've never seen him stumped.

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sorry, i got 29 seconds in before i had to bail. that kind of playing does nothing for me. in my SUBJECTIVE opinion it's just wanking and playing fast for speed's sake. i hear ZERO emotional content, but instead only hear and see technique and overscripted lines. pre-planned stuff....unlike much of the indian stuff which has much improv in it.

the fact that he uses all his fingers??? big whoop. i have students that have been playing a yr or two that do that. the fact is ....you don't use all fingers on sitar. or certainly not all the time. it's a different instrument. different technique.

have you ever seen Rocco Prestia w Tower Of Power play bass? he's one of the most grooving humans on the planet and the man can play. he often plays lines that incorporate a lot of 16th note grooves. the first time i saw him play i couldn't believe it....he plays 90% of the time w just the index finger of his left hand!

am i going tell him he's playing "wrong"? or that technique of his is any less impressive than someone using all four fingers??? sheeeet. i think it's quite impressive that he can sound that good just using his index finger! i know i never could. (or using all four for that matter!)

And before you go hating on him because he's faster than anyone you might point at

i don't hate him because he's fast. i just don't hear much music content in that example you shared.

i listen to a lot of gypsy jazz and playing fast is big part of that genre. but there too it's often overdone and blazing arpeggios are often overused (my opinion) and given more weight than emotional/musical content.

again..this is ALL highly subjective stuff.

I don't think you're being intellectually honest, Mark.

Many have imitated Mona Lisa, but there was only one Leonardo DaVinci. He created new things no one had done before. That is the difference you refuse to acknowledge.

but that's precisely the point....what Page is doing is the pale imitation. you make my point.


[quote}When someone's fingers don't move any faster than mine and they are only using a couple of fingers to bend a single string...well....sorry if you don't believe it but that ain't hard to imitate. [/quote]

i get it ted...you're impressed w how fast someone's fingers are moving...at least that's the yardstick you're using here. playing fast IS a skill...bu there are others here that you fail to recognize.

you keeping harping on using all fingers but you're showing your lack of knowledge about how sitar is played. it's NOT a guitar and you don't use the same techniques. do you understand that your left hand fingers never touch the "fingerboard"? or that the "frets" are suspended??? waaaay different techninques than running pentatonic scales up and down a gtr neck at breakneck speed.
lity.

Almost anyone here can do a reasonable facsimile given the time. It's not as hard as learning Stairway to Heaven, which requires all fingers to be used and goes through some fast notes towards the end.

sorry...that' nothing but your subjective OPINOIN. come back to me after two wks and share the results and than it becomes OBJECTIVE. see above regarding technique.

Sorry guys....you just don't have a leg to stand on if you think this woman is "1,000 times better" than Jimmy Page.

i never said that. never would...it's apples and skateboards. she can't do what Page does and Page can't do what she does. (he does a pale imitation).

OK, I'll leave you guys to your delusions now, since you can't comprehend what I've said anyway.

If it's physically possible for me, Mark, I can imitate it. Never said that I'm as good, or that I could master it in two weeks...only that it isn't hard to imitate someone playing slowly on one string with one finger. If you watched the tutorial "joseph" just put up, you don't even have to pick up a guitar to follow the guy playing 5 notes of a G major scale up the neck while droning a G in the bass. Why do you guys think that is hard to imitate???

Fast doesn't matter to me unless it's a song where it particularly fits, like "Flight of the Bumble Bee". I'd bet Page could do an imitation of that, but I'd bet Nag could not. That is an objective measurement of capability whether you admit it or not. Page wasn't trying to imitate Johnson, btw, he stretched it way beyond what Johnson could do.

That clip from Andy was only to show you guys what fast really is. I told you that his body of work is much wider, but you choose not read that part apparently, and hated on him for playing fast in one song. More evidence you simply want to argue and can not be honest about the comparisons you started with this ridiculous assertion.

Playing fast is not something I can physically do, so I would never claim to be able to imitate that.

I see nothing super-human being done in Nag's performance. Good? yes, maybe even great! But not beyond the physical capabilities of most guitar players in Texas.


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but it still boils down to if somebody was to force me to listen to Nag for 5 hours straight, or Led Zeppelin 5 hours straight, I think I would nod off after about an hour listening to Nag.. Led Zeppelin would be so interesting, I would be having to take a sedative from the rush is was giving me..

Page would not even come close to meeting that standard.

Really? You can't be serious? IF so, it's just more intellectual dishonesty.

He could and would if it paid enough. Again, there is a reason why he was the most sought after and highest paid studio musician in England before starting Zep.

He's far more versatile, far more physically capable, and far beyond brilliant in every other aspect of a music career. Doesn't diminish our Indian friends....but they simply are not anywhere near him in terms of impact, innovation, nor ability.

Period.

DO you have Nag on an electric guitar?

Bottom line to me is Ted hired and knows Andy Timmons to play on his albums which are better and musically more interesting than any of your stuff by FAR!
When you guys get good enough and successful enough to beat him you will. Me thinks NOT IN THIS LIFETIME!