This is a MUSIC forum. Irrelevant or disrespectful posts/topics will be removed by Admin. Please report any forum spam or inappropriate posts HERE.

All users can post to this forum on general music topics.

Moderators: bandmixmod1, jimmy990, spikedace

#25819 by Craig Maxim
Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:41 pm
A brilliant speech.

Obama, and his association with the now infamous Rev. Wright, had the potential to destroy any hope of his winning in the general election, and who knows? It still may.

But for those that saw his speech on race, and considered it with an open mind, it should have gone a long way in changing their views.

Watching the pundits later on Fox, I am sure that for some, it will not. But Fox, betrays a profound lack of understanding of the deep chasm between the white and black experience in this nation.

It is the same division seen when the verdict was read concerning the O.J. Simpson murder trial. In general, Blacks cheered and whooped and hollered in approval, while Whites, in general, stood speechless, mouths agap in astonished disbelief. That amazing dichotomy was captured on cameras in public venues, where both black and white stood, side by side, yet profoundly divided in their view of the event.

I was one of those whites that stood shocked, and angered. But unlike some whites, my anger was temporary, as the thought immediately came to my mind "How many whites were released by predominately white juries throughout history, simply because a white jury was not going to rule in favor of a white man over justice for a black man?" I thought to myself that it was almost Karmic in nature. Was it right? Of course not. The evidence would have convicted anyone else. But I understood what had happened. The black people's IMMENSE distrust of police, courts and the government in this country, and historically, rightly so, brought serious doubts into the minds of many of those jurors, which would have been easily dismissed as not "reasonable" doubts by most whites.

The point is. That experience alone, should show anyone, that there is a deep divide, still, in our nation, and a profound lack of understanding by most whites, of the historic experience and cultural journey of blacks in this country.

Obama, has an almost impossible task, as candidate for president. To not alienate the black community to which he is related, and also, to not alienate the white community to which he is related.

It would take an ideal representative, to bridge this enormous divide, foster understanding, bring unity to an unprecedented scale, and potentially, bring this nation farther from it's racist roots, than it has EVER been before, ushering in a new age of understanding and advancement in our nation.

Obama "IS" that representative.

That is patently clear to me after watching his speech today.

He could not possibly have done a better job, and been more fair, intelligent, brave and wise, than he was in that speech today.

He admitted that he had known that some of Rev. Wright's positions were inappropriate, offensive and even factually wrong. But I think he did an adequate job of separating the personal relationship from the political. The only valid criticism, is not admitting that he (Obama) was wrong and showed poor judgement in allowing Wright to have a role in his political campaign.

He could not say "I will no longer have anything to do with a man like Rev. Wright" because Obama knows what many white Americans are only now finding out. That this anger and distrust, even irrationally so, is endemic in the black community, and far more common than many whites have previously known.

So, rather than be politically expedient, and leave the greater issue alone, by paying lip service to disowning a certain preacher, and indirectly, a larger community of Americans with him. Instead, he took the opportunity to seize on the underlying problems of such beliefs and comments. He made whites aware, of how differently the world view is for most whites as opposed to most blacks. But he did not simply "blame" white Americans either. He layed the charge of "complicity" squarely at the feet of black activists and radicalists as well, saying in effect that many black politicians play the race card for political expediency. That they act as if things have not really changed in this country, when clearly much has changed. He suggested that living in the past, with all it's anger and fears, does NOTHING productive, in the effort to bring about unity and understanding among the races in this country.

He had a nearly impossible job to fulfill in this speech.

I think he accomplished it brilliantly.

Many whites will not forgive him for his association to Rev. Wright. But it has less to do with Obama's lack of judgement, than their own ignorance of the journey of black Americans, and the culture, whether right or wrong, which has built up around hundreds of years of injustices, and the lingering memories, pain, and second class status, which, albeit to a far lesser extent, STILL exists in this country.

Obama did not just state that it was time, as never before, for the white community to advance forward, but also that it is time for the black community to stop being held back by the past, and move forward as well. That, as a nation, we may unite and reconcile as never before, and move forward - Together.

If it were not for his lack of understanding of the threat of terrorism and wanting to dishonor our commitments to the people of Iraq, I would now SERIOUSLY consider voting for him. Even though he is going to tank our economy, I might vote for him, just for the hope he may bring, in potentially freeing this country from the bonds, that hundreds of years of slavery and separatism, has caused all of us to be enslaved to, as Americans.
Last edited by Craig Maxim on Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

#25820 by Irminsul
Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:43 am
Be still, my beating heart.....

#25822 by RyanStrain3032
Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:47 am
If Obama or Hillary become president, America is going to be destroyed. The troops are going to be pulled out of Iraq, and then the terrorists are going to come to America and kill everyone. The Bible says America is going to be destroyed...So this is an educated guess of how it's going to happen. Democrats...

#25824 by Craig Maxim
Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:43 am
RyanStrain3032 wrote:
If Obama or Hillary become president, America is going to be destroyed.


If Bush didn't destroy the country, Hillary or Obama certainly can't.

RyanStrain3032 wrote:
The troops are going to be pulled out of Iraq, and then the terrorists are going to come to America and kill everyone.


Fighting terrorists in Iraq does not stop them from coming to America. The terrorists are already HERE my friend. What being in Iraq "DOES" do, is keep us close to their bases, plans and agendas. It helps keep them busy, and possibly disrupts many of their larger goals.

RyanStrain3032 wrote:The Bible says America is going to be destroyed...


Does it?

Which verses?


For me, one of the MAJOR issues in pulling out prematurely, is that we are DISHONORING our committment to the Iraqi people and to freedom itself worldwide. The moment we pull out, if there is not a stable government and police force in place, then radicals will take over Iraq, and the first order of business will be murdering THOUSANDS of Iraqis who supported democracy. When this happens, it will be OUR fault. The world will not respect our word, or our promises, and we will be not much better off than we were in the months and years following Vietnam.

The Democrats, it seems, are all too willing to see this nation shamed, yet again, just like Vietnam, and responsible for the murder of thousands. And at a time when Russia is reinstituting cold war policies, fueled by massive oil revenues, we CANNOT afford to become their equals, and relinquish the influence we have built up over decades.

#25827 by Irminsul
Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:27 am
RyanStrain3032 wrote:If Obama or Hillary become president, America is going to be destroyed. The troops are going to be pulled out of Iraq, and then the terrorists are going to come to America and kill everyone. The Bible says America is going to be destroyed...So this is an educated guess of how it's going to happen. Democrats...


I think Screamo has fried your noggin.

#25830 by Franny
Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:54 am
It's funny the way everybody is applauding Obama's tongue lashing of 'his' Pastor.
Yet no one's mentioned that this Pastor has a long history of these "idea's and rhetoric" along with questionable sermons; or that Obama has been attending that Church for 20 years...things that make ya go hhhmmm

#25833 by fisherman bob
Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:39 am
I've been waiting for Obama to make a speech of substance instead of a speech with 100% platitudes. I've been waiting for Obama to take a stand, one way or the other. I've been waiting for Obama to get specific about issues. This speech went somewhat towards what I had been waiting for. The media that had been playing all the hateful aspects of the pastors speech and NOT playing any of his good messages. The media was race-baiting, plain and simple. Sooner or later race was going to become a major issue. So Obama HAD to make this speech. I wish he HAD made a speech like this much earlier in this campaign, but he DIDN'T because he knew that getting specific would PISS off more people who might support him. I believe it's unfortuneate that the net effect of this speech is that he will likely lose more support. Those people who thought Obama should completely denounce the pastor are mad at him. Those people who thought Obama shouldn't denounce him at all are mad at him. Those people who didn't want Obama to help bring in the race issue are mad at him. I think he made a GREAT speech. I stand up and applaud his effort. I for one am more likely to vote for him for having made this speech. However I want him to get SPECIFIC about other issues. How are we going TO PAY FOR HIS HEALTHCARE INITIATIVE? How soon are we pulling troops out of Iraq? What is he going to do to try and help our downturning economy? Overall exactly how much is he going to raise taxes? Exactly what spending cuts (if any) what programs will he cut? Will he try and get rid of pork and cut red tape? Will he try and make the tax code streamlined and fair to everyone? While adding or increasing government programs will he make a major effort at reducing government waste? What EXACTLY does he propose for oil prices? He needs to start GETTING SPECIFIC in his campaign speeches. I'm tired of platitudes. I'm tired of HOPE and CHANGE? It's time for Obama to be brave (like today) and get down to what is REAL. Later...

#25837 by Craig Maxim
Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:57 am
Franny wrote:
Yet no one's mentioned that this Pastor has a long history of these "idea's and rhetoric" along with questionable sermons; or that Obama has been attending that Church for 20 years...things that make ya go hhhmmm



Franny,

Had Obama lied, and said he wasn't aware of the Pastor's rhetoric, I would have crushed him. I was waiting to pounce. I was ANGRY as hell, about how that pastor conducted himself, in the comments Fox News plays incessantly. I was mad at CNN for sugarcoating things and only playing mostly "one" of the clips, rather than the others that were available as well.

But...

He didn't lie.

He courageously took the heat, but also took the opportunity to address the deeper issues at the heart of this thing. He made it an opportunity for understanding, rather than continued division. With respect, he gave a dressing down, to both white racist history, but also black animosity and black race baiters.

Many here know I am an anomaly. I support issues on BOTH sides of the aisle. So, when Obama is not black enough for some, and too black for others. I think that's perfect. It shows he is not as extremist as I could have believed, and that he is his own man.

I am seeing a politician growing by leaps and bounds as the campaign continues. He shows class. He hasn't buckled.

He's earned MORE respect from me. Not less.

Think about how impossible his position is. He grew up entrenched in the black experience, feeling and knowing racism, but also attending the best schools this country has to offer. He has experienced BOTH sides of the coin. I think that makes him uniquely qualified to understand ALL of America, rather than PART of it.

Too bad about his position on Iraq.

If there are no real scandals that come forward to haunt him then, if not this time, one day, he is VERY likely to be this nation's first black president.

#25840 by Kramerguy
Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:42 am
RyanStrain3032 wrote:If Obama or Hillary become president, America is going to be destroyed.


How so? Spending hundreds of billions of taxpayer funds in bad foreign policy investments? That money used to go to out infrastructure. Notice all the potholes and lack of after school programs these days?

RyanStrain3032 wrote:The troops are going to be pulled out of Iraq, and then the terrorists are going to come to America and kill everyone.


wow.. That's pretty profound. Right out of the fox news playbook, I think.

Do some genuine research, please! I hate to see this kind of mis-informed attitude, especially among musicians, who are supposed to be better than average at critical thinking.

1. Al-queda was completely invented by the CIA, their name was even given to them by the CIA. This is known fact. They were nothing more than a common street gang before we started using them, funding them, arming them, for our own political goals in other countries. The CIA are fools for ever using them, then allowing them to turn against us.

Personally, I'm not living my life afraid of a bunch of guys 4000 miles away who are hiding in caves. It's insane to think they are coming to the USA to kill YOU. Your chances of dying in a car accident on any given day are 10000% more likely than to die from a terrorist attack, even before all this recent wiretapping and loss of civil rights.

2. Al-Queda wasn't in Iraq prior to our invasion. They were unwelcome under saddam and considered destabilizing.


RyanStrain3032 wrote:The Bible says America is going to be destroyed...So this is an educated guess of how it's going to happen. Democrats...


The bible says no such thing. You assume it means 'The USA' when it talks about the great empire.. Could be China for all you know. Just because the USA has about 75 years of prosperity, doesn't mean jack, in fact, thats a small amount when you consider that other countries like Russia, China, Poland, England, Austria-Hungary, and many more, have survived centuries of war and hardships and still exist today. The USA has hardly earned the right.

Also, 'god bless america', NOT mentioned in the bible. If you think about it, you will find that almost every country in the world thinks that GOD favors them, which in the end, is the stupid reason for most of these stupid wars.

Why do you think a book written, by men (with political and personal agendas), 1800 years ago (7 generations after jesus died BTW), has some magical ability to fortune tell? It's a man made object thats rife with inconsistencies, fallacy, scare tactics, and well, look at the church- 2000+ years of genocide, torture, brainwashing, and sexual perversion. I'll take my chances with my own moral compass, thanks.

All but one of the hijackers on 9-11 was from Saudi-Arabia
...who also financed more terrorist networks than any other country outside Syria and Lybia.
We had concrete intelligence that 9-11 was going to happen and our leaders turned their backs and allowed it to happen.
Bin-laden's family members were rushed out of the USA after it happened, and never questioned.
Friends of the Bush administration like Haliburton, Blackwater, Lockheed Martin, are making hundreds of billions of dollars in profits off of this war.
Iraqi Oil has not only failed to pay for the war (as promised in 2003), but has destabilized the market and doubled the price of existing oil/gas.

Considering the rest of the world disagrees with this war, do you really think that 7 billion people are wrong, and the 19% of americans who support the war are right?

#25841 by TheCaptain
Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:20 pm
I can't believe I'm engaging here...

but, since you all asked for my opinion, here it is.

Obama is a black man.
So frikin what?

If you want racial equality, stop pointing out that he is a black guy.
yeah ..right
(not necessarily directing this toward the poster)
This thing comes down to (as everything always does) one's worldview.

Either you believe in mandatory redistribution of wealth(socialism. etc), or you don't.
Either you follow & subscribe to Marxism, or you don't.
Either you believe that some people do bad things, and should be punished for their actions, or you don't.
Either you believe that there are guiding moral principles greater than ourselves, or you don't.
and lastly, either you admit Celtic music is a powerful force...or you're wrong.

And that's all I have to say about that....

:)

#25843 by Chris2203
Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:10 pm
:D I'm writing celticpiping in for President.

#25844 by jw123
Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:27 pm
This thread started about Obama and I have to say he is one of the most charismatic politicians to come down the pike in a long time. Oddly from my standpoint anyway he represents the new america, hes racially mixed, he rose out of obscurity to get to where he has. If not for him Hillary would already be assuming the role of president. Obama is a remarkable individual.

Back to politics in general, our biggest problem is not Iraq its the economy. Whoever gets to be our next president has got to get a handle on the economy domestically. Our easy credit society is catching up with us at last. People are going to have to live within their means and actually save something for a rainy day. The mortgage crisis is far from over, next will be credit cards, if you are one of those folks constantly rolling over credit card after credit card your time is coming. I really dont think the president can change the path we are on. I think it comes down to people at the base level learning to live within their means and demanding the same of our politicians. I personally think that our presidential candidates are just a reflection of the society they represent and if McCain, Clinton, and Obama are it we are in big trouble cause I havent heard anyone of them say anything that makes sense to me. They are all just responding to this crisis or that crisis instead of offering any true change in the direction of our country. We need a true leader that the majority can get on the bandwagon with and suffer for a few years to straighten things out. That doesnt mean starting new programs or wars, that means tightening our belts.

#25849 by Franny
Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:53 pm
About that speech, i watched some rerun of it and the big flap over it (the news anchors are saying) he never once looked at nor talked to the camera. I know there was people present (at least they were heard clapping) but wouldn't someone who's supposed to be refuting or trying to distance himself or make excuses talk to the camera which is where the American voters/public is virtually located?
When the anchors were talking about it before they played the film i thought yeah right just someone wants something to have air time over.
But wow, he never does look into the camera, he seemed to make a conscience effort to avoid it.

another thing that makes you go hhhmmm.

#25851 by Kramerguy
Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:17 pm
I'm camera shy, I don't mind being filmed, but I abhor looking at the lens (probably has something to do with a mild form of stagefright). I don't think that would affect my ability to make good decisions.

#25860 by jimmydanger
Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:18 pm
Yes the Speechmaker gave a great speech. But he did not address the issue of why he would attend a racist church for twenty years. He's heard those sermons many times, and had many chances to seek another place of worship if he wanted. But he did not. If it was revealed that a white candidate attended KKK meetings for twenty years he would be finished. I cannot support anyone who displays such a lack of common sense.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests