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#241411 by Planetguy
Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:27 pm
yod wrote:

When was the last time an abortion clinic was bombed? How many total times did it happen?


REALLY???? is THAT what you're asking? so, because it hasn't happened recently, or there were only a few that were bombed....it doesn't count????


The extremely overwhelming majority of Christians do not support violence for anything. We do not support bully tactics, we do not support attacking, ridiculing, hurting, or humiliating PEOPLE.

When Christians do those things, it is usually other Christians who are the first to condemn it.


And you're stating for fact that "the difference is that Christians are the first to condemn it".... really? FIRST before jews? before muslims, sikhs, hindus, and atheists???? really? THE FIRST!

i guess you don't remember attacking and ridiculing me when we had a go round a few yrs ago? and i was dealing you exactly the same....you later apologized as did i and we moved fwd from there.

but the funny thing is, i don't recall any of the "christians" here "condemning" you for it. more likely the Amen Chorus was rooting you on!

yeah, let me guess....you're gonna come back w the usual dodge...."well, i wasn't acting in a christian way"

kudos! that's the perfect and ultimate GET OUT OF JAIL FREE card you toss down whenever a christian behaves badly!

....we do not support attacking, ridiculing, hurting, or humiliating PEOPLE


unless they're named josh, vinny, or djasper!


Violence and ridicule is the tactic of the left, not the right.


that's absolutely laughable! you're saying faux news, hannity, rush, dennis miller and that cabal of hatemongers DON'T use ridicule??!??!?!?! c'mon.....that's their chief stock and trade! :roll:

The leftist media did everything it could to destroy a small business owner who had opinions contrary to theirs, and gave their lunatic fringe a green light for violence.


bullshit. that's nothing more than right wing propaganda you're parroting and slinging.

the mainstream media reported on what happened, they reported on people's outrage to the bill, they reported on rallies to support gay rights, and they reported on the many businesses, musicians, and govt's from other states who've decided to boycott IN. AND they also covered more than a few people who support the bill and the businesses who want different rules and protections for different people.

They are inciting the uneducated/ignorant that vote for them. And getting the exact results they desire.


if you're speaking of faux news, hannity, rush, dennis miller and right wing media.....you nailed it! :wink:
#241429 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:05 am
Now ya got it. Sounds like the perfect new name.
Yellow, denotes cowardice.
Slippery, denotes the lack of traction.
Peel, the part of a food source that has little value.

Very good! From now on we will call you nana peel! :lol:
#241449 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:44 pm
Planetguy wrote:
yod wrote:

When was the last time an abortion clinic was bombed? How many total times did it happen?


REALLY???? is THAT what you're asking? so, because it hasn't happened recently, or there were only a few that were bombed....it doesn't count????



The last time it happened was 11 year ago. At it's height in the early 1990s, there were literally thousands (maybe millions) of Christians publicly denouncing that violence and demanding it be stopped on both sides of the political spectrum.

You obviously missed my point; so please show me where there are thousands of gays and/or Democrats standing up against the bullying from their constituents against free speech & freedom of religion rights today?





When Christians do those things, it is usually other Christians who are the first to condemn it

And you're stating for fact that "the difference is that Christians are the first to condemn it".... really? FIRST before jews? before muslims, sikhs, hindus, and atheists???? really? THE FIRST!


Yes. The first.

Do you really not know that most Pastors have to deal with these things immediately in their churches by making a clear statement of where they stand?



i guess you don't remember attacking and ridiculing me when we had a go round a few yrs ago? and i was dealing you exactly the same....you later apologized as did i and we moved fwd from there.

but the funny thing is, i don't recall any of the "christians" here "condemning" you for it. more likely the Amen Chorus was rooting you on!

yeah, let me guess....you're gonna come back w the usual dodge...."well, i wasn't acting in a christian way"


First of all I don't remember the specifics of what we were talking about, but I'm sure my response wasn't "I wasn't acting in a Christian way". My response was "I was wrong and I'm sorry".

Would it be so hard to admit that forcing people to act against their religious convictions (excepting violence) is wrong?




....we do not support attacking, ridiculing, hurting, or humiliating PEOPLE


unless they're named josh, vinny, or djasper!



O c'mon, be serious.

He/she/they is a troll sent to confuse every issue and nothing else. He/she/they is lying about his/her identity so I'm not even talking to a person; I'm talking to an avatar of a partisan hack.

A hired liar must be confronted when they are humiliating decent people. Not much different than standing up to Goebells.





Violence and ridicule is the tactic of the left, not the right.

that's absolutely laughable! you're saying faux news, hannity, rush, dennis miller and that cabal of hatemongers DON'T use ridicule??!??!?!?! c'mon.....that's their chief stock and trade! :roll:


Look, I have no allegiance to either of the major parties but I'm not blind either....

When have any of the people you just named supported a violent act against political opposition? It would be possible to name several on the left who have done that, in almost every year since Democrats were openly the party of the KKK..

You only have to name one to support your accusation. I won't hold my breath.

I didn't say that politicians on the right don't employ ridicule sometimes, but it is the default position of the Democrat Party. In the GOP, they would cease to vote for candidate whose only quality was being able to humiliate others, but in the DNC they nominate that person as their Presidential Candidate since Al Gore.


The leftist media did everything it could to destroy a small business owner who had opinions contrary to theirs, and gave their lunatic fringe a green light for violence.

bullshit. that's nothing more than right wing propaganda you're parroting and slinging.


It's fact that you are either unwilling to admit or genuinely ignorant of....but it's fact because:


the mainstream media reported on what happened,


No, it was a fabricated non-event.

they reported on people's outrage to the bill,


No, they spun and twisted a non-story in such a way to make it offensive enough to stop a bill guaranteeing the rights of conscience for anyone who has an objection for participating in what most of the world and a majority in this country has historically considered a morally offensive act.

No one bullied gay people into anything. The gay lobby is trying to bully people into participating in something these people consider reprehensible. Whether you or I agree with them, I agree that no one should be forced to do what they detest. It's no different than forced conversions/baptisms, in my opinion.

they reported on rallies to support gay rights, and they reported on the many businesses, musicians, and govt's from other states who've decided to boycott IN.


...while ignoring the intent and purpose of a bill to guarantee the religious freedom of people to not participate in an act against their conscience.


AND they also covered more than a few people who support the bill and the businesses who want different rules and protections for different people.


While ignoring the overwhelming majority who will have their religious freedom and rights of conscience taken away




They are inciting the uneducated/ignorant that vote for them. And getting the exact results they desire.


if you're speaking of faux news, hannity, rush, dennis miller and right wing media.....you nailed it! :wink:




Ridiculing a reporter is not the same as addressing their position in a factual way. Surely you can do better?
#241453 by Planetguy
Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:26 pm
yod wrote:
.... please show me where there are thousands of gays and/or Democrats standing up against the bullying from their constituents against free speech & freedom of religion rights today?


how many thousands do you need? seems like there are more than a few thousand standing up against those that discriminate against gays in IN. my guess is though there are plenty of repubs speaking against it...the majority are dems. but that's neither here nor there.



i guess you don't remember attacking and ridiculing me when we had a go round a few yrs ago? and i was dealing you exactly the same....you later apologized as did i and we moved fwd from there.

but the funny thing is, i don't recall any of the "christians" here "condemning" you for it. more likely the Amen Chorus was rooting you on!

yeah, let me guess....you're gonna come back w the usual dodge...."well, i wasn't acting in a christian way"


First of all I don't remember the specifics of what we were talking about, but I'm sure my response wasn't "I wasn't acting in a Christian way". My response was "I was wrong and I'm sorry".


no, that WASN'T your response then. i'm not saying that. what i AM saying is your team uses that "get out of jail" card to excuse poor behavior..... and that NOW, you're likely to say that you weren't acting like a christian (because as we all know....christians don't act that way)

Would it be so hard to admit that forcing people to act against their religious convictions (excepting violence) is wrong?


well, the problem there is their "convictions" are based on their INTERPRETATION of "god's word". there are many christians who don't share those same views of what god's words are. please don't waste your time w bible quotes. that all presupposes the bible IS god's word....and not words written down by man claiming it to be god's word.

you and other christians have interpretetted that homosexuality is a no, no. we both know there are plenty of christians who feel otherwise. :wink:



When have any of the people you just named (rush, hannity, o'reilly, etc) supported a violent act against political opposition? It would be possible to name several on the left who have done that, in almost every year since Democrats were openly the party of the KKK..


go for it....i'm waiting, name someone in mainstream media that you believe has supported a "violent act"....



I didn't say that politicians on the right don't employ ridicule sometimes, but it is the default position of the Democrat Party. In the GOP, they would cease to vote for candidate whose only quality was being able to humiliate others, but in the DNC they nominate that person as their Presidential Candidate since Al Gore.


right!....because that's what's important to me when i go to the polls.....i want a candidate who can HUMILIATE his opponent! that must be why obama won.....not because his platform resonated more than romney's and not because people could identify more w him than romney......but because he could HUMILIATE!!!! :roll:

that is some serious wacky stuff, ted. but i know you actually believe that silliness.

my point is that ridicule and character assasination has become the norm on both sides. claiming it's more so on the left is laughable to me.

and now, everybody uses negative campaigning trying to paint their opponent as the bad guy......let's give credit where credit is due.....this was a strategy first put in play and most used by the right.....and now it's become the norm for both sides. sad state of affairs that is.
#241456 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:59 pm
I want a candidate that is going to uphold the law of the land.

If that is not possible... Than you are already humiliated and you have no right to the public faith that is based on law.

My point once again, and I hope you lend some credence to it, is simple, have honor to uphold the right to office, that charges protection of the law.

Instead of us bickering about semantics, that you are skilled in... Let's stick to the point. DON'T BREAK THE TRUST OF THE PEOPLE... The only reason our society exists is because of law. If it is continuously stomped on... Society is gone.
#241458 by Planetguy
Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:09 am
yod wrote:
Planetguy wrote:
yod wrote:

When was the last time an abortion clinic was bombed? How many total times did it happen?


REALLY???? is THAT what you're asking? so, because it hasn't happened recently, or there were only a few that were bombed....it doesn't count????



The last time it happened was 11 year ago. At it's height in the early 1990s, there were literally thousands (maybe millions) of Christians publicly denouncing that violence and demanding it be stopped on both sides of the political spectrum.


why is relevant WHEN it happened? i'm sure to the families of those killed and injured....it's timing is not relevant.

and the fact that it was only a few wack jobs doing this and only a few clinics bombed???? if there was a school w a population of 999 whites, and one black and only two of the 30 teachers were guilty of discriminating does that make it less relevant? a small instance is irrelevant.

my point.....these wackjobs who bombed clinics and threaten staff there claimed that they were following god's will. hey, that was their INTERPRETATION of "god's word". yes, an overwhelming majority of christians condemned those acts and were rightfully horrified. so? who would expect anything otherwise?

but my point is those wacko's were following their beliefs and their INTERPRETATION of god's word.

sho nuff many christians like yourself, ted find homosexuality an abomination because that's how YOU interpret "his word".....but many christians have a different INTERPRETATION of "god's word"

seems that if you don't want to associate w gays, and don't want to serve them.....then maybe operating a restaurant isn't right line of work for you.

were it a black man who refused to cater a white's wedding or party... that would be seen as just as grievous.
#241459 by Planetguy
Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:11 am
angelsshotgun wrote:I want a candidate that is going to uphold the law of the land.



as did the segregationists who voted for george wallace.
#241460 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:03 am
Planetguy wrote:
The last time it happened was 11 year ago. At it's height in the early 1990s, there were literally thousands (maybe millions) of Christians publicly denouncing that violence and demanding it be stopped on both sides of the political spectrum.


why is relevant WHEN it happened? i'm sure to the families of those killed and injured....it's timing is not relevant.


I want to believe the best in you, Mark, so I will assume you really are innocently missing the point. The reason it's relevant when it happened is because it doesn't happen any more. Christians were a major reason why it stopped.

That would be the equivalent of the gay lobby and thousands of Democrats saying, "This religious persecution must stop! These people have the right to their own opinions!". Yea....fat chance.

You also try to appear as if you didn't notice that this case is about RELIGIOUS discrimination, and nothing else. No gay people were refused service anywhere. A reporter asked a hypothetical question of a business owner and then twisted the answer to make it appear as if a hate crime was committed. There was no discrimination of any kind carried out.

This was a non-story turned into hysteria for the purposes of a political attack on a bill guaranteeing that one person doesn't have to engage in an "act" that another person does, when it conflicts with their deeply held religious convictions. If they refuse to make a cake because a person is gay, that would be wrong and discrimination. If they refuse to participate in an "act" (gay wedding) or even writing something that goes against their religious convictions (hail satan or even Steve loves Bill) then that should be their prerogative. The satanist or the gay can go find someone who isn't offended by that in a free nation.

You can keep avoiding that FACT, but it remains the foundation of the entire episode.

And it does not matter to me whether we're talking about Christians, Jews, or Muslims here. You seem to purposely mischaracterizing the intent of the law, which was to protect freedom of religion.

If I want a caterer to make a thousand ham sandwiches with bacon and shrimp , then a kosher Jewish or a halal Muslim restaurant should not be forced to start cooking pork only to avoid "offending" me. I have not been prohibited from having a pig party at all! There are still hundreds of other restaurants who will be happy to take my money.

To force that Jewish or Muslim person to do something against their religious conviction would be a form of persecution (bullying) on MY part. Don't act like you can't understand the principle I'm making. This is EXACTLY what the gay lobby is doing. There are literally thousands of businesses that will take their money. If someone doesn't want to engage in an "act" that goes against their conscience, they should not be forced to.



but my point is those wacko's were following their beliefs and their INTERPRETATION of god's word.


I support the rights of all people to believe and interpret whatever they wish....as long as they are not violent or persecuting others. Persecution is a deliberate action, not a response to a question from a reporter.



sho nuff many christians like yourself, ted find homosexuality an abomination because that's how YOU interpret "his word".....but many christians have a different INTERPRETATION of "god's word"


Words have meaning and definition. There is such a thing as a wrong interpretation. I support everyone having their own opinions about ANYTHING at all, as long as they are non-violent and don't persecute others. Persecution is a deliberate action, and can not be a response to a reporter asking a hypothetical question.



seems that if you don't want to associate w gays, and don't want to serve them.....then maybe operating a restaurant isn't right line of work for you.


Mark, you have absolutely no idea how many gay friends I have. I have served them many times. I've never done it because I was forced to. NO ONE should be.


were it a black man who refused to cater a white's wedding or party... that would be seen as just as grievous.


I find it offensive that anyone would compare someone's race to another person's sexual behavior. There is no equivalency.

But now that I am offended, to be consistent with your views on this matter, I demand that you stop playing in a jazz band start playing Justin Beiber from now on...or be boycotted in every state. On top of that, your punishment for having this opinion is to serve me ham sandwiches for the rest of your life.

:lol:
#241461 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:39 am
Planetguy wrote:
When have any of the people you just named (rush, hannity, o'reilly, etc) supported a violent act against political opposition? It would be possible to name several on the left who have done that, in almost every year since Democrats were openly the party of the KKK..


go for it....i'm waiting, name someone in mainstream media that you believe has supported a "violent act"....



But Mark, you were the one who made the accusation first so I'm waiting on you to back it up by naming ONE TIME that ANY of those you accuse did it?


But OK, I'll start with Sanford, FL

These are the facts:

NBC edited the 911 tapes to CREATE a false narrative, ignoring the truth though evidence was readily available and eventually proven in a trial. Heck, I knew them immediately with a small bit of research but apparently the major networks don't have the internet or someone who can read?

Then almost every other major network piled on the false narrative, though again, the facts contradicted their reports and were readily available from the very beginning until the aquittal.

The truth is readily available for even you to see, but have you looked? Or do you just swallow the narrative you are given without critical examination? You seem too intelligent for that, bro.

THIS FALSE NARRATIVE was an attempt to start a race war. It was a call to violence, that was supported by $100,000 being spent by the so-called "Justice Dept" on Al Sharpton and ACORN thugs going to start trouble in Sanford


http://reason.com/archives/2013/07/27/z ... hanks-to-m

This narrative transformed Zimmerman, a man of racially mixed heritage that included white, Hispanic and black roots (a grandmother who helped raise him had an Afro-Peruvian father), into an honorary white male steeped in white privilege. It has cast him as a virulent racist even though he once had a black business partner, mentored African-American kids, lived in a neighborhood about 20 percent black, and participated in complaints about a white police lieutenant’s son getting away with beating a homeless black man.

This narrative has perpetuated the lie that Zimmerman’s history of calls to the police indicates obsessive racial paranoia. Thus, discussing the verdict on the PBS NewsHour, University of Connecticut professor and New Yorker contributor Jelani Cobb asserted that “Zimmerman had called the police 46 times in previous six years, only for African-Americans, only for African-American men.” Actually, prior to the call about Martin, only four of Zimmerman’s calls had to do with African-American men or teenage boys (and two of them were about individuals who Zimmerman thought matched the specific description of burglary suspects). Five involved complaints about whites, and one about two Hispanics and a white male; others were about such issues as a fire alarm going off, a reckless driver of unknown race, or an aggressive dog.

In this narrative, even Zimmerman’s concern for a black child—a 2011 call to report a young African-American boy walking unsupervised on a busy street, on which the police record notes, “compl[ainant] concerned for well-being”—has been twisted into crazed racism. Writing on the website of The New Republic, Stanford University law professor Richard Thompson Ford describes Zimmerman as “an edgy basket case” who called 911 about “the suspicious activities of a seven year old black boy.” This slander turns up in other left-of-center sources, such as ThinkProgress.org.

Accounts of the incident itself have also been wrapped in false narrative—including such egregious distortions as NBC’s edited audio of Zimmerman’s 911 call which made him appear to say that Martin was “up to no good” because “he looks black.” (In fact, Zimmerman explained that Martin was “walking around and looking about” in the rain, and mentioned his race—of which he initially seemed unsure—only in response to the dispatcher’s question.)

While this falsehood was retracted and cost several NBC employees their jobs, other fake facts still circulate unchecked: most notably, that Zimmerman disobeyed police orders not to follow Martin (or even, as Cobb and another guest asserted on the NewsHour, not to get out of his car). In fact, there was no such order. The dispatcher asked if Zimmerman was following the teenager; Zimmerman said yes, the dispatcher said, “We don’t need you to do that,” and Zimmerman replied, “Okay.” (Just before this, the dispatcher had made comments that could be construed as asking him to watch Martin, such as, “Just let us know if he does anything else.”)

No one except Zimmerman knows whether he continued to track Martin—or, as he claims, headed back to his truck only to have Martin confront him. No one but Zimmerman knows who initiated physical violence. Both eyewitness testimony and forensic evidence, including injuries to Zimmerman’s face and the back of his head, supported his claim that he was being battered when he fired the gun. It was certainly enough to create reasonable doubt. Yet accounts that deplore the verdict often completely fail to mention Zimmerman’s injuries. Thus, Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson says only that an unarmed “skinny boy” could not have been a serious threat to “a healthy adult man who outweighs him by 50 pounds”—nearly doubling the actual 27-pound difference between Martin and Zimmerman and omitting the fact that Martin was four inches taller.

The false narrative also makes it axiomatic that a black man in Zimmerman’s shoes wouldn’t stand a chance—especially if he had shot someone white. Never mind examples to the contrary, such as a 2009 case in Rochester, New York in which a black man, Roderick Scott, shot and killed an unarmed white teenager and was acquitted. Scott, who had caught 17-year-old Christopher Cervini and two other boys breaking into a car, said that the boy charged him and he feared for his life. (While the analogy has been decried as false in a number of Internet discussions because Scott actually saw Cervini doing something illegal, this is irrelevant to the self-defense claim: stealing from a car does not call for execution.)


On August 14, 2012, Vice President Joe Biden told a largely black audience in Danville, Virginia, that Republicans wanted to “put y’all back in chains.” That is an offensively dangerous lie, designed to anger the most base of racial animus....so what do you suppose Joe wanted to accomplish, if not violence?

Why has no one in the DNC called for his head, when even you know a Republican VP would never get away with the same thing? Will you say that is wrong?

In 2010, after being stonewalled by his own department, Christopher Coates, former voting chief for the DOJ’s Civil Rights Division, testified that Holder’s decision to drop an already-won voter intimidation case against the New Black Panther Party was due to “pressure” from the NAACP.

Did you not also see those gangsters standing in front of a polling station with clubs threatening violence to keep white voters away? How much more proof do you need than that one? Shall we now move on to the same false narrative that promoted violence in Ferguson? And it is still being spun though the truth is known. Really, I could get writer's cramp listing all the ways the leftists (democrats) have promoted racial violence in just the last year.

I don't hate anyone. There are only good people and bad people in all sizes, shapes, and colors..and they are all uniquely made in His image. As a human being who happens to also be a Christian, I resent the recently aggressive attacks of the media to portray Christians as hating homosexuals when I know that it simply isn't true. However, being forced into participating in another person's "culture" should not be a pre-requisite for good citizenship in a free nation. English is not a mandatory language anymore, either by the way. :wink:

I have lots of Christian friends and a few of them have no desire, nor idea how, to deal with their fear on this subject. They might never meet a gay person in their life so what does it matter? They aren't actively hunting them down, as is the reverse case now.

But I can say that none of my friends hate anyone, and I wouldn't hang out with real people who did! (but you never know in a virtual group like this one)

So I've rambled long enough....and I've only asked you for one example to back up your accusation. Speak now or I'll consider it an admission of factual error.

That gets a hard slap on the pinky finger of your choice hand, according to Bandmix Sharia.

.
#241475 by Planetguy
Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:56 pm
yod wrote:
So I've rambled long enough....and I've only asked you for one example to back up your accusation. Speak now or I'll consider it an admission of factual error.

That gets a hard slap on the pinky finger of your choice hand, according to Bandmix Sharia.

.


you want an example of the right wing conservative media lying to further their agenda and incite the villagers to light their torches and storm the castle????

here's FIFTY such examples.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQXK3g3qO6E

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