This is a MUSIC forum. Irrelevant or disrespectful posts/topics will be removed by Admin. Please report any forum spam or inappropriate posts HERE.

All users can post to this forum on general music topics.

Moderators: bandmixmod1, jimmy990, spikedace

#234874 by GuitarMikeB
Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:55 pm
gtZip wrote:Unfortunately it's normally one instrument at a time.

You could get second hand mixer, get a live mix that sounds workable through some headphones, and then feed the mixer into your soundcard/interface if you want to do all instruments at once.
That will require at least two mics though.


And you would still need to close-mic to avoid the bad room reflections.

#234883 by MikeTalbot
Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:07 am
Thanks for the tips men - I appreciate it.

Talbot

#234891 by Planetguy
Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:26 pm
VinnyViolin wrote:I've been a home recordist since about 1980 or so.

Best? I don't know ... I don't browse recording forums very often.
I find that many folks are concerned with getting the types of sounds that I actually take care to avoid .... like popular contemporary kick & snare drum sounds for instance. I guess it helps to know what not do do.

I've probably spent the most time at the UAD forum
http://uadforum.com/forum.php since those are the plug-ins I use the most, and the info is also often very applicable in a general sense, even if I do not have a particular plug-in, since they are modeled on designs of classic gear.

A lot of music I listen to are old recordings, casually made recordings, field recordings, and or made in poorly equipped studios in far away lands etc. so I am used to, and actually like mixes that would bum out a real audio engineer.

More Lee Perry influence than Eddie Kramer.


i'm with vinny on this. for some time now the way stuff is recorded/mixed/mastered just sounds so sterile and over compressed to my ears.

i got bit by the home recording bug in HS back in '74 or so, using a cpl of cassette decks to bounce trks back and forth.

i bet i'm not the only geezer here who got started that way.

after that i graduated to 4 trk 1/4" open reel. next up was the world ADAT....i still have my original 16 bit XT and also have an ADAT XT20.

I've got a SONAR LE setup but more often than not my default recording mode is the ADAT's. guess i'm just an old school button pusher.

#234892 by Planetguy
Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:31 pm
MikeTalbot wrote:Do you all think one instrument at a time is better? In the past I've done it all sorts of ways but it was always someone smarter than me at the controls. My friend routinely records our sessions when I play bass with his band and it sounds fine. (but that's at his place - uses pro-tools)

Talbot


strictly from a "performance" point of view.....i ALWAYS prefer tracking as much stuff together as possible. it just sounds and feels better IMO.

sometimes that's just not possible for logistic reasons, but that's always my first choice.

#234899 by Cajundaddy
Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:48 pm
Planetguy wrote:
VinnyViolin wrote:I've been a home recordist since about 1980 or so.

Best? I don't know ... I don't browse recording forums very often.
I find that many folks are concerned with getting the types of sounds that I actually take care to avoid .... like popular contemporary kick & snare drum sounds for instance. I guess it helps to know what not do do.

I've probably spent the most time at the UAD forum
http://uadforum.com/forum.php since those are the plug-ins I use the most, and the info is also often very applicable in a general sense, even if I do not have a particular plug-in, since they are modeled on designs of classic gear.

A lot of music I listen to are old recordings, casually made recordings, field recordings, and or made in poorly equipped studios in far away lands etc. so I am used to, and actually like mixes that would bum out a real audio engineer.

More Lee Perry influence than Eddie Kramer.


i'm with vinny on this. for some time now the way stuff is recorded/mixed/mastered just sounds so sterile and over compressed to my ears.

i got bit by the home recording bug in HS back in '74 or so, using a cpl of cassette decks to bounce trks back and forth.

i bet i'm not the only geezer here who got started that way.

after that i graduated to 4 trk 1/4" open reel. next up was the world ADAT....i still have my original 16 bit XT and also have an ADAT XT20.

I've got a SONAR LE setup but more often than not my default recording mode is the ADAT's. guess i'm just an old school button pusher.


Yep, stereo to cassette in the early 70s, 4T Dokorder RR in the late 70s, Fostex 8T RR in the 80s (still some of my best stuff is on RR tape), music sabbatical in the 90s while raising kids. Digital Roland VS and Pro Tools DAW in the 21st century... and I still stink at it.

I also appreciate recording as much instrumentation together as live as possible just like they did at Stax, Muscle Shoals, and Motown, while close-mics and separate tracks on everything for later overdubs and mix flexibility. Something happens when musicians record together live that gets lost tracking only one at a time.

This is what a great recording session might look like. Caution, Jazz music content: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xukwe6bSYVo

#234971 by schmedidiah
Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:28 pm
I use Sennheiser E 609 Silver Super Cardoid instrument Mics. They're designed for placement right up against the speaker cab. I hardly get any bleed-thru, playing with a drummer in a room that's about 13' x 20'. You would need a usb mixer, more cables, another mic stand. Or, you could try a Zoom for about $100-$400. I know guys that get good results with those (separation between instruments on playback). But you would need to address the acoustics of the room. Good luck!

#234980 by GuitarMikeB
Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:28 pm
Live tracking of a band works well when everyone knows their sh*t and when there is enough space in the recording room to keep things failry isolated. Movable gobo insulating panels help with this.
When you're 'doing it all yourself' like I do, that's not an option.
I question the 'sterile' comment, though - how the sound comes out is much more a factor of HOW it was recorded (ie miking, room treatment) than how it is played or whether it is recorded one track at a time.
There are some folks on the acoustic guitar forum right now talkking about using one of these 'quiet rooms' (stand-alone insulated space, cost about $2000) for recording acoustic guitar. Yes, you can use fancy condensor or tube mics in that 'room' and pick up all the instrument details without any reflections, but is the sound that much better than using a couple of dynamics or pencil condensors pointing at the guitar from 6"? (I don't think so)

#234982 by Planetguy
Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:51 pm
GuitarMikeB wrote:I question the 'sterile' comment, though - how the sound comes out is much more a factor of HOW it was recorded (ie miking, room treatment) than how it is played or whether it is recorded one track at a time.


well, as to sounding sterile.....for me it's not the "sound" that's lacking as much as it is the PLAYING, chemistry, and the hookup that often suffers.

#234983 by GuitarMikeB
Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:37 pm
Planetguy wrote:
GuitarMikeB wrote:I question the 'sterile' comment, though - how the sound comes out is much more a factor of HOW it was recorded (ie miking, room treatment) than how it is played or whether it is recorded one track at a time.


well, as to sounding sterile.....for me it's not the "sound" that's lacking as much as it is the PLAYING, chemistry, and the hookup that often suffers.


That makes sense, but its not the recording method then, its the player(s). I've seen bands like that, playing live!

#234987 by VinnyViolin
Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:35 pm
GuitarMikeB wrote:
Planetguy wrote:
GuitarMikeB wrote:I question the 'sterile' comment, though - how the sound comes out is much more a factor of HOW it was recorded (ie miking, room treatment) than how it is played or whether it is recorded one track at a time.


well, as to sounding sterile.....for me it's not the "sound" that's lacking as much as it is the PLAYING, chemistry, and the hookup that often suffers.


That makes sense, but its not the recording method then, its the player(s). I've seen bands like that, playing live!


I think it is the method of recording. The proper method for the genre should be considered. The close miked Multi-tracked sound became the norm for pop&rock during the 70s and ever since. It worked well for those and similar styles. But it really sucked to hear jazz records made that way. I don't think it caught on much for "classical" type records either, though they are out there.

It's not the players. With jazz, it is the spontaneous nature of the style of music. If the drummer records his track first, he will not hear the sax player .. even if you had the sax playing as a scratch track while the drummer records, the sax solo will be different each time ... unless you have very unimaginative players.

With classical, or even old rock&roll, there is "something in the air" .. a sort of spiritual happening when several good musicians play live, the subtle communications taking place between them that cannot directly be recorded by a microphone, but influences and shapes the feel and SOUND of the music in a very noticeable way.

For other types of musicians and music .. you would never miss what wasn't there to begin with.

#235003 by Planetguy
Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:06 pm
VinnyViolin wrote:
GuitarMikeB wrote:
Planetguy wrote:
GuitarMikeB wrote:I question the 'sterile' comment, though - how the sound comes out is much more a factor of HOW it was recorded (ie miking, room treatment) than how it is played or whether it is recorded one track at a time.


well, as to sounding sterile.....for me it's not the "sound" that's lacking as much as it is the PLAYING, chemistry, and the hookup that often suffers.


That makes sense, but its not the recording method then, its the player(s). I've seen bands like that, playing live!


I think it is the method of recording. The proper method for the genre should be considered. The close miked Multi-tracked sound became the norm for pop&rock during the 70s and ever since. It worked well for those and similar styles. But it really sucked to hear jazz records made that way. I don't think it caught on much for "classical" type records either, though they are out there.

It's not the players. With jazz, it is the spontaneous nature of the style of music. If the drummer records his track first, he will not hear the sax player .. even if you had the sax playing as a scratch track while the drummer records, the sax solo will be different each time ... unless you have very unimaginative players.

With classical, or even old rock&roll, there is "something in the air" .. a sort of spiritual happening when several good musicians play live, the subtle communications taking place between them that cannot directly be recorded by a microphone, but influences and shapes the feel and SOUND of the music in a very noticeable way.

For other types of musicians and music .. you would never miss what wasn't there to begin with.


absolutely spot on (as usual).

the other consideration is that many magical recordings have much bleed (spillover) and that actually glues things together in an organic way.

#235009 by gtZip
Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:31 pm
I have this weird experience where if the drummer lays something down, and then I play to it - it's much harder for me to lock in than it is if we are playing at the same time. Even if a click track had been used.
Without a click, or with any wavering meter, it's a biotch to lock in - but not so hard if there's a wavering meter live.

Am I nuts?

#235010 by Cajundaddy
Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:33 pm
TheFarleys wrote:In my experience, as long as there are rhythm tracks recorded together (in my case drums-bass-guitar) it doesn't matter what else is layered on top. Recordings built one track at a time generally suffer from a lack of feeling, because the rhythm players are not playing off each other at the same time.


Yes indeed. That subtle interaction in the rhythm section is what separates music from musak. We don't consciously hear it but we are moved by the groove.


Edit, I almost forgot what a royal PITA it is to simply post here.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 6 guests