General Music Chat

Then be sure and stop supporting American regimes that make people want to bomb us by our insipid foreign policy choices.

Contrary to prevailing wisdumb, these things don't just happen in a vacuum.

Irminsul, on this issue, you are supremely naive. An example of terrorism (or call it insurgency) that is politically motivated by what some of it's people consider oppression, is the Provisional IRA. If England had conceded (well, not just England, they wanted to wipe out the Northern Ireland government and make it socialist) then in all liklihood, they would have stopped bombing and killing innocent civilians in the process. They were terrorists just the same, but with a singular political motivation.

But this is a religious based assault. Not a political one. The radical fundamental islamists desire the DESTRUCTION of Israel AND America, and all of western civilization for that matter. The only "concession" acceptable to them, is for Islamic law (as they interpret it) to be the rule of the land. ALL LANDS. They literally believe that the world must conform to Muslim law, even by force, terrorstic force if neccessary.

There is no reasoning with that. I would have loved to see you "reason" with the religiously motivated government in place at the salem witch trials. It was our version of the same thing. Religious extremism is dangerous, and paranoid, and ABSOLUTE.

It is what allows these assholes to blow themselves up, and now women and retarded people as well, in the form of suicide bombers. It was the same motivation that had a "divine wind" blowing into American aircraft carriers, in the form of Kamikaze suicide pilots, who were all too happy to trade their lives for a good hit on an American vessel. This is beyond "culture" as an explanation (before you come back with that) as they believed the Emperor to be a living God, and the tradition of Samarai demanded death before defeat. The Bushido code, while classified as a philosophy, really approaches the realm of religious conviction.

Christianity began as a non-violent faith. And while it's adherents have strayed from the origins of the faith on occassion, and convoluted it's basis, and justified conversion through force at times, they have always returned to the truth path.

Mohammed, however, spread his faith through the edge of a sword. THAT IS it's origin. That IS the true path. And that fact alone, can justify islamic radicals to follow the same example, which they do, with a vengeance.

Do you dance with the opposite sex in public? Make dirty jokes occassionally? How about just not pray five times a day? All of this is worthy of death as an infidel. It threatens their faith, and pulling out of ANY and ALL Muslim countries and allowing them to conduct their own affairs without intervention WILL NEVER stop the mentality that has them blowing themselves up and taking as many as they can with them.

Western civilization is EVIL. Don't you get that?

Talking and reasoning doesn't change their understanding of the Qur'an.

Hell, the leaders of their own countries are targets for them, when the country exists outside of the orthodoxy they demand.

What does this have to do with Iran? Or Iraq? Or Afghanistan? They are hargingers of these cells. Funding them. Giving them space and protection as they train for their suicide missions and build their bombs.

It makes a country like Iran COMPLICIT in the terrorism.

Wow Craig you are really buying in to this whole manufactured terrorism thing huh? The propaganda machine has done its job on your mind. "Al qaeda" was created by the CIA and the Bush's have an intimate relationship with the Bin Laden's through the Carlyle Group. This "war on terror" is not meant to be won, it is meant to be maintained. A lot of money is made from war by the establishment including politicians, and they use fear to manipulate the masses to support it. The game is rigged.

I like the idealistic and talented youngins', but methinks some have played one too many video games and read into a few to many conspiracy theories.

Back to J.W's origional point! ALL YOU PENNSYLVANIANS GET YO SELF READY TO GET YO ARSE OUT TO VOTE! (oh no, now Guitargal and Mikey's singer has gotten' ME SCREEMIN!)

The Saudi's just arrested a whole bunch of there young men for dancing to music and trying to attract women. Perhaps those young men would be interested in your America is always wrong CIA Theory. Or perhaps they would just like to live here so they can take their liberty for granted as well.

Wow Craig you are really buying in to this whole manufactured terrorism thing huh?

Alright, I've calmed down. Taken a few deep breaths, and erased an entire page of anger at what is essentially, your childish and insensitive demeaning of fellow Americans who have lost their lives at the hands of radical islamic terrorists with a penchant for American blood.

Try and remember, that these are your countrymen. They have been murdered, and left grieving families and fatherless and motherless children behind. The CIA did not "manufacture" that. Demented religious zealots did.

Here is a list of what just one group, Al-Qaeda, has managed to accomplish at the behest of Abdullah Yusuf Azzam and then Osama bin Laden, not at the behest of the CIA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_al-Qaeda_attacks

"Al qaeda" was created by the CIA

No it was not. That is a distortion of history. The CIA helped arm islamic fighters in Afghanistan, when they were fighting Soviet expansion into the region. They did this because of something you should have learned about in school called "The Cold War". Al-Qaeda was formed after this war, when they kicked the Soviets out, and suddenly had a country they could operate from freely. Even though we helped them with funding and training, they were just as intent on kicking Americans out of Muslim countries as they were the Soviets. They were bolstered by their success against the Soviets, and formed this group as a direct result, believing they could repeat the same victory worldwide, effectively removing ALL infidels from ALL Muslim lands worldwide.

Saying that the CIA formed Al qaeda, because the former so-called "freedom fighters" ended up using the training and funding against us for purposes we did not intend, is like saying that the elementary school teacher is responsible for a criminal giving a robbery note to a bank teller, because the teacher taught the thief how to spell. And yes Irminsul (saving you the trouble) it is bad foreign policy and stupidity on our part to continue supplying weapons and training to unsavory groups that only end up using it against our own country later.

This "war on terror" is not meant to be won, it is meant to be maintained. A lot of money is made from war by the establishment

That's just foolishness, and displays a lack of understanding of how economies function. This is borrowed from the mythological belief that "war is good for the economy". War is NOT good for the economy. Instability is one of the strongest factors in causing markets to decrease in value. The stock market HATES instability. War is instability. Not desireable to economists. Secondly, while spending money on military endeavors, which leads to government contracts for private industry, seems to boost the economy in the short term, in reality, it damages the economy in the long term, as this money spent by the government is much better used elsewhere. Like improvements to infrastructure, or paying down our enormous debt, or programs which provide true and lasting benefits to American workers and the economy itself.

It is simply a myth that war is good for the economy. Economists actually have a term for this myth. It is called "The Broken Window Fallacy". Look it up.

You demean the true harm done to innocent civilians, when you perpetuate childlike fantasies, of our government being behind worldwide terrorism, so that the rich can benefit. People murdered are sometimes the rich themselves, and family members of the rich.

There is plenty of real sh*t, to blame your country for, without resorting to fairytales, and demeaning the deaths of thousands of your countrymen, by blaming the CIA, rather than the murderous religious zealots who are truly responsible.

In being a naive and rebellious young person whose brain has not yet caught up with his impetuousness and energy, try to not forget that you are an AMERICAN. It is YOUR countrymen who are the victims of such muderous beings. And it is YOUR countrymen who will fight to preserve your right to spew idiocies, while you play the X-Box and surf the net for urband myths to believe in, all the while suspending critical thought in the process.

The Saudi's just arrested a whole bunch of there young men for dancing to music and trying to attract women. Perhaps those young men would be interested in your America is always wrong CIA Theory. Or perhaps they would just like to live here so they can take their liberty for granted as well.

The Saudi's are hypocrites.

They live seemingly religious lives there, but have the money to come here, and party for weeks on end, drinking alcohol and hiring prostitutes and dozens of other things they would never do in their own country. When I was younger I was a waiter at one of the most exclusive hotels in Washington DC, which was famous for hosting rich Saudis. I have personal experience with this. I've watched them bring prostitutes (expensive ones) into the hotel restaurant, and buy shots of Remi Martin Louis XV cognac at $150.00 a shot, and maybe have 6 shots of it. That's $900.00 just for the drinks on the check.

I dont even know where to begin. You keep on saying that we live in a free country. This is silly to me. The chain around our neck is longer than the prisoner next door. We live in a country where there is no such thing as privacy, government can tap your phone, install monitoring equipment in your house with out your knowledge, and if your neighbor informs you that he witnessed government intruding on your property he can be jailed. We have 1/3 of our money STOLEN from us to finance this tyrannical machine. You can be taken off the street and be detained and TORTURED with out the right to a trial or a lawyer. That set up free speech zones when important people are in the area. That is taking away our guns to defend ourselves. That is sending our young people to die to put more money in the pockets of the elite. This is U.S. Law under the Patriot Act and Military Commissions Act. And I talk to people like you that insist we are free.

And dont use this phony scare tactic of terrorism to prove your point. If you want to believe that a bearded man in a cave orchestrated 911 that is your right, but dont expect me to go along with that nonsense. A five year old could take apart the official story of 911. How does Bin Laden get Norad to stand down? How do 2 buildings get hit by planes and 3 buildings fall? Why did The Project for a New American Century with Almost Bush's entire cabinet state their goal that is unfolding right now one year before 911, stating that it could only be accomplished with "a new Pearl Harbor"? I could go on and on. Come on man, the cat is out of the bag.

And another thing, dont question my patriotism because I am not down with this Nazi style agenda that is happening. If you would read the Bill of Rights you would understand that I am American. I am trying to stop the tyranny that our founding fathers warned us about over and over again. And I understand why you get upset at what I am saying, because it makes you question your belief system. Do the research you will find out the scam that is being pulled on us all.

I am also a strong supporter of our constatution and am not implying that our government is always right any more the that they are always wrong. I dont question my belief system, just because someone does not agree with me on politics. Jesus died to save my soul. I know this for a fact, I dont have to "believe" anything in this world or the next. And in this I am a free man.

I have to go with Felicity on this one. The so called War on Terror is basically a war on the public mind. History has shown many times over that FEAR can galvanize any society behind their leaders where anything else fails. And we are seeing it working again.

On top of that, the atmos-fear we are in today is covering up a nastier truth - that we are largely to blame for the attacks on us, with decades of horrible foreign policy and beligerent interference in Middle East nations. I hate to tell you this, but you can only do that so long before they hit back. And they will some more, with every day we stubbornly refuse to fix our own mess and cop to our misdeeds.

You can call me naive or any other string of condescending put-downs you will, but it won't persuade me that this "war" is anything more than one of the most elaborate fictions ever visited upon my people.

And, Gods' curse on all dreamt this thing up and continue it.

Alright, well, this is going to explode in a minute, this whole thing -o r should I say, it already has...

Felicity, Irminsul, I agree with you to an extent... Craig, I agree with you as well.

Let us get down to business, shall we? I am going to talk on what I know and if anyone cares to correct me and show me somewhere to research the rest, be my guest.

First off, 9/11 was messed up, something is entirely wrong with that day. I think there is a conspiracy going on there, but I cannot say what. Did our government cause it though? Who knows... I just know they did not try hard enough to stop it, there is tons of proof of that out there.

I think there is an Al Qaeda, I do not think our government made them either. I used to wonder if perhaps maybe our government was behind the 9/11 attacks, or someone else, and they just framed the Al Qaeda, but that was a stupid theory without strong enough grounds.

Look, our country is a free country, it is actually much more free than most. On the contrary, the problem in this country is certain rights are getting ripped from our hands. We all know sooner or later the abortion stuff is going to come up again, and if they ban that we know there is going to be a revolution in this country as a result. That right there is one way of taking away rights of people. How about forcing us into these wars and any time we speak up they ignore us and go about their business? That is controlling and horrible, this country needs a change (And no, not Obama’s kind of change).

This government is controlling, that is for sure. We are free, but the problem is we are still bound by these politicians and their f*cked up views on life. Religion controls our government partially, and that is a sad factor, and should not be the case. We cannot even make English our official language because everyone is scared we are going to offend others who come here.

The CIA is a corrupt agency, let us not defend them at all. Who knows what they are involved in, let us remember they are full of double agents, and crazy people who love to control things in the background.

As far as the wire tapping goes, I am fine with that. I rather them tap the lines of people and search out these terrorist. Trust me, they do not care if you and your wife are talking about the family gossip, it means crap to them. They are looking for terrorist, let them do it, who cares.

They even monitor our e-mails, lol. So what, who gives a damn. Yes, we have a right to privacy, but remember what they monitor is usually people who appear suspicious, and they have that right in my eyes. I rather them monitor and catch some of these scumbags, then not monitor and it costs more American lives. As it is, I think they can attack us any time they want to and they are just waiting for the right moment.

Our country is not as safe as it appears, Bush is a war monger and a stupid schmuck. He knows nothing, he is just a monkey with his finger on the red button. He will get us all killed if he is allowed to, and if people want to let him, then fine - we will all die for his useless crap.

As for the Iraq war... Damn that needs to end... But yet there are so many ramifications of withdrawing from that country expeditiously. I think the true "war on terror" is here, on the ground in our country. We need to arm ourselves with white hat hackers and defend ourselves against these people before they blow something up from across the world through the internet.

Well, that is all I have to say for the moment, sorry if I rambled a bit.

Peace out, GuitarAnatomy.

Who cares if they monitor our phone calls and emails? They are looking for suspicious people? What exactly is a suspicious person? This is all being done for our "security", and this violation of our rights will only get worse and worse. Once you let them take an inch, they will take 1 million miles. What is going to happen when it is an all out police state where you cant do anything without being interogated. I guess you'll be safe from those terrorists though.

Many years ago, I had a chance to tour a place that at one time in their history, told their people they were being threatened by terrorists. They told their people that it would be patriotic of them to allow the government to listen in on their phone conversations, to read their mail, to see what sort of books they are checking out of the library, because all of these things would make them safer from the great enemy without.

They also told their people to spy on their neighbors and family, that this would help keep the fatherland secure.

I toured the old buildings, and finally I toured one of the facilities they used for people who were "undesirables", dissidents and troublemakers who wouldn't go along with the government plan. The place's name was Dachau Concentration Camp, and I hope never to see it - or the government mindset that allowed it to happen - again.

Damn It; I hate to agree in part with FC but There does have to be some balance. I mean I'm a freedom loving American, butt a lot of the knowledge and hardware I have gained through the years, to a lot of silly city folk would classify me as a terrorist. I mean I like to shoot a flintlock rifle so I always have some Explosives on hand. And its funny that a lot of what both of our present political parties espouse is the same social democracy that became the National Socalist Party Irminsul likes to refer to. Dont get pissed Irmy I know you dont believe in total goverment control any more than I do. We are in deep dodo if either side of the spectrum becomes too powerful. Our Representative Republic is not perfect because people are not. Common men must seek common ground. and fight againt corruption together. We now more than ever have the communication tools by which to do so.

The Holocaust was a different issue and shall never happen again, Israel would never allow it without destroying whoever were to start it. Now, I am not trying to be condescending, Irminsul, but by bringing up that paradigm of the Holocaust aren't you using the fear tactic as well? Saying that they did the same thing and if we allow it we are heading down that road? It sounds a bit hypocritical to me. *Shrug*

I agree that this government needs reform, but there are certain things I do not have a problem with. I do not care still about the government tapping lines when necessary. I support the intelligence agencies and their mission.

The war is at home in those agencies (In their computer departments), it is them who are our only barrier from these black hat hackers from across the globe.

Peace out, GuitarAnatomy.

It will never happen again huh? Step back and really look at the current situation that we are in. Do you think that they are passing these laws for shits and giggles? They intend to apply this tyranny when they believe that the masses are ready to go along with it.

And what about the Bill of Rights? Do you think they gave us these rights for shits and giggles? Those guys knew that over time government will become tyrannical and gave us the tools to take it back. The problem is that Americans have come to accept the bullshit. This is the most crucial time of human existance, the next few years will determine if we can band together and take our freedom, or slowly slide into an Orwellian society.