This is a MUSIC forum. Irrelevant or disrespectful posts/topics will be removed by Admin. Please report any forum spam or inappropriate posts HERE.

Topics specific to the localities in America.

Moderators: bandmixmod1, jimmy990, spikedace

Does the system have the RIGHT to do this?

1
20%
4
80%

#233318 by Planetguy
Thu May 08, 2014 5:24 pm
GuitarMikeB wrote: Money is short, and why should taxpayers who don't have kids participating in thes programs pay?


strongly disagree....using that same argument you could say the very same about special education and kids that have special needs.

does anyone really feel "well, my kid has no special needs so I shouldn't have to pay for the kids that do"?


I have to say I agree wholeheartedly w haley here....

J-HALEY wrote:
Your assumption that it would do anything to lower the tax burden by not having benefit eligible school teachers teaching music programs. Children that participate in their school music program are known to have better grades in other subjects. I can't say enough about the music programs when I was in school. Those are some of the best memories of my life, and it led me to where I am now! I think that those school programs are a necessity in today's society and I wouldn't be for cutting one cent out of those budgets the children are our future and IMO those programs help keep kids out of trouble, better grades the benefits to society are immeasurable!

#233322 by GuitarMikeB
Thu May 08, 2014 5:51 pm
Mark - the question is about extracurricular activities, not 'education for all' - which in many communities these days is a joke. The 'no child left behind' laws dicate that no kid can flunk a grade and have to repeat it - that happened on a regular, if not frequent, basis when I was young. Schools and teachers are judged in their abilities by standardized tests that have become the normal way so that the schools/teachers end up teaching the kids exactly the stuff that will be tested for, and not hte general knowledge or methods to be able to to an dlearn more in the long run.

Jeff's points about the benefits of music programs apply to sports programs as well, and to chess club, etc etc. There's only so much money to go around for all of these programs, who judges what needs to be cut?

#233325 by Planetguy
Thu May 08, 2014 6:00 pm
GuitarMikeB wrote:Mark - the question is about extracurricular activities, not 'education for all' - which in many communities these days is a joke. The 'no child left behind' laws dicate that no kid can flunk a grade and have to repeat it - that happened on a regular, if not frequent, basis when I was young. Schools and teachers are judged in their abilities by standardized tests that have become the normal way so that the schools/teachers end up teaching the kids exactly the stuff that will be tested for, and not hte general knowledge or methods to be able to to an dlearn more in the long run.


don't get me started on "no child left behind" and "teaching for the test":roll:

Jeff's points about the benefits of music programs apply to sports programs as well, and to chess club, etc etc. There's only so much money to go around for all of these programs, who judges what needs to be cut?


well, there's ALWAYS gonna be decisions made on what gest cut and what gets funded.

and that speaks to our priorities and what we as a society place value on. there have been too many studies that show the benefits of being exposed to music for it to fall by the wayside and viewed as anything less than an important part of a kid's education experience.

#233342 by VinnyViolin
Fri May 09, 2014 1:25 am
I agree with Planetguy and J. Haley!

I recall when Reagan proposed heavy funding cuts to public education, many lamented on what a destructive effect it would have on music education in public schools. Good 'ol Ronnie quipped something to the effect that young people could always join the military if they wanted a musical education.

Teaching to the test is a very short sighted and narrow minded approach to education .... oh, and so downright uncreative!.

If we had good quality free public education, we would have a population too smart to be suckered into fighting in, and paying for, more needless invasions and wars. The billions of dollars saved on wars would easily pay for the education costs.

Problem is that higher education leads to greater awareness and participation in the democratic process,
and as Zbigniew Brzezinski says - "Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization."
And we are definitely a mobilized empire!!

#233346 by MikeTalbot
Fri May 09, 2014 2:47 am
Vinny

I agree with you in theory about 'free' and 'good quality' public education but a) it isn't 'free' and b) it's rarely good quality.

The solution is certainly not more money. They are already swimming in money. They have more administrators than teachers and the product (ie educated kids) is lacking.

Personally, I'd junk it and get away from it utterly at the national level. As it is meant to do, the system could then work: the states would try all sorts of things from public, private, charter, whatever. Which would be great because we could then choose for our state - what worked best in similar states.

ouch...must have been dreaming and bumped my head on my desk.. 8)

Talbot

#233348 by VinnyViolin
Fri May 09, 2014 4:02 am
... from the fed's website,
http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/role.html?src=ln

The Federal Role in Education

Overview

Education is primarily a State and local responsibility in the United States. It is States and communities, as well as public and private organizations of all kinds, that establish schools and colleges, develop curricula, and determine requirements for enrollment and graduation. The structure of education finance in America reflects this predominant State and local role. Of an estimated $1.15 trillion being spent nationwide on education at all levels for school year 2011-2012, a substantial majority will come from State, local, and private sources. This is especially true at the elementary and secondary level, where about 87.7 percent of the funds will come from non-Federal sources.

That means the Federal contribution to elementary and secondary education is about 10.8 percent, which includes funds not only from the Department of Education (ED) but also from other Federal agencies, such as the Department of Health and Human Services' Head Start program and the Department of Agriculture's School Lunch program.

Although ED's share of total education funding in the U.S. is relatively small, ED works hard to get a big bang for its taxpayer-provided bucks by targeting its funds where they can do the most good. This targeting reflects the historical development of the Federal role in education as a kind of "emergency response system," a means of filling gaps in State and local support for education when critical national needs arise.

#233350 by VinnyViolin
Fri May 09, 2014 4:22 am
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Universities in Germany

Germany's universities are recognised internationally; in the Academic Ranking of World Universities (ARWU) for 2008, six of the top 100 universities in the world are in Germany, and 18 of the top 200.[24] Most of the German universities are public institutions, charging tuition fees of only around 60 euro per semester (and up to 500 euro in the state of Niedersachsen) for each student.[25][26] Thus, academic education is open to most citizens and studying is very common in Germany. Although the dual education system, that combines practical and theoretical educations and does not lead to academic degrees, is more popular than anywhere else in the world - while it is a role model for other countries.[27]

The oldest universities of Germany are also among the oldest and best regarded in the world, with Heidelberg University being the oldest (established in 1386 and in continuous operation since then). It is followed by Leipzig University (1409), Rostock University (1419), Greifswald University (1456), Freiburg University (1457), LMU Munich (1472) and the University of Tubingen (1477).

Most German universities focus more on teaching than on research. Research is mostly exhibited in independent institutes that are embedded in academic clusters, such as within Max Planck, Fraunhofer, Leibniz and Helmholtz institutes. This German specialization is rarely reflected in academic rankings, which is the reason why German universities seem to be underperforming according to some of the ratings, such as ARWU.

#233392 by Starfish Scott
Sat May 10, 2014 2:52 am
Du bist mein
Ich bin dein
Des solst du gewiss sein
Du bist geschlossen in meinem herzlein
Verloren ist das schusslein
Darum musst du immer darinnen sein !!!

#233833 by Levallian
Fri May 23, 2014 8:54 pm
I can see where all you people are coming from, but be honest. How would you react to this if your school or your child's school did this? I can't speak for everyone but I wouldn't have a reason to go to school if it weren't for the band.

#233842 by MikeTalbot
Sat May 24, 2014 3:38 am
My stepson played in a symphony sort of band in high school - it was a way to get mediocre players to do something cool collectively - each played a small part of the whole.

I taught him a bit of discipline with his viola at his mother's request.

Ten times as many run throughs. I'll let you know when it sounds passable. In other words - the same discipline I inflict upon myself.

Come the big night the kids sounded pretty good on a bit of Beethoven or some such thing. But the bitch in charge of it had me so mad my ex had to grab me because I jumped up and shouted "bullshit!"

That elitest creep said since we were essentially Southern hillbillies and knew nothing of classical music she would indicate when we should applaud.

I still get pissed thinking about that.

This was a public school that claimed 67% of the kids were 'above average!' Well, OK...

Talbot


Talbot

#234181 by Starfish Scott
Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:35 pm
People that sling terms like HILLBILLY are just mad because they really aren't so bright to begin with..

Southern folks are usually pretty nice.

A guy told me recently that the problem with NJ is everyone is obsessed with "Revenge and Graft". And I felt that was accurate. Gimme the deep south any day, faq NJ and these rabid animals from hell.

The day I get a real opportunity to migrate, I'll be leaving the north in general. It's just not like it was a decade ago and thus it's time to move on.

#234201 by MikeTalbot
Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:56 pm
You'd be welcome in Georgia Scot.

Talbot

#234219 by Starfish Scott
Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:15 am
It's not as easy as to just get up and leave...I am still just a dipshit in training.

And I figured as much, most everyone decent in Atlanta I ever met was very nice to me. It was a real eye opener.

The only one that really screwed with me was my ex-fiance'. She tripped me coming out of Ruby Tuesday's in little 5 points and I cut my face on the concrete outside.

I asked her why she did it and she laughed. I, out of habit, apologized and she said "yeah you are, now apologize" and I flew home that night.

I love the women of the south, that is if they love me first. Otherwise I know to "guard up and run like hell" cause they don't play around.

I don't know why she was so mad, but I figure I got away okay since she didn't leave me with a limp, scar or cast. lol

My main problem is pesos, as in "I got none". LOL And all the crappy work I do up here doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

One can pretend all they like, but without the almighty dollar to fuel your moves, it's easy to end up homeless. (gulp)

And that's really about all that scares me anymore, that and some bozo rewriting something magical that I wrote by accident into more garbage.

Fing tough to see something that came out well not see fruition because some other jackass doesn't share your vision and think they know better.

(shrugs) But that's life, ain't it? If it's ever easy, you know it's time to die.
Pain is just there to let you know that your still breathing and you learn to like it or you go nuts. Choice is yours, at least that much, anyway.

Another thing that comes with experience, you don't lean on your friends or else you might not have them when you really need them. You got rainy days and then you get days when things are just POURING>...

I learned to recognize the difference early on.

#234315 by MikeTalbot
Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:02 am
I was homeless several weeks when I first got to Atlanta in the early seventies. sold blood, slept on a park bench and brushed my teeth in fancy hotel bathrooms. 8)

Found a band, then a job (probably wrong order) and put a scene together. Then I went to LA, a wiser and better prepared man. I had a whopping two hundred bucks!

I've been tempted of late, to head out and see where the freeway takes me - just to feel the air on face again.

Talbot

#234326 by Starfish Scott
Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:10 am
Wow Mike, you got some balls. Live large as you feel, cause life is short.

Not much terrifies me except being homeless.
Good jobs seem like they are for those that know someone or people that are specialized to the nth degree, of which I am neither. Being capable and a swift learner doesn't mean much these days, probably about as much as my BS in Communication and the minor in Theater. (basket weaving was full)

A friend of mine was going south and I was going to follow her down, but she changed her mind and now I am a bit unnerved at the thought of not knowing anyone and not being employed.

I figure all I'd have to do to get jailed is to be without a job or place to live and say something that sounded like NJ. I'd be in jail faster than you can say "Dayne is a jackass". LOL

I get mistaken for Midwestern all the time, but when you're tired sometimes that ugliness rears it's head and voila, they'd be looking at me like steak at a beef convention..(just throw em on the grill)

NOTE: only logged in 3x to post this time..

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests