General Music Chat

heres the problem i have with sax, clarinet, etc, i never hear anyone doing anything different with it.. 99 out of 100 times all i hear the saxophone playing is jazz.. id like to hear atleast someone try something different with it... but its not something im likely to see.. i guess its just stuck in a stereotype.. its used so much in jazz, so mostly jazz players buy them, and what do they do after that?.. make more jazz, kind of like a catch 22

the reason sax is used in jazz so much is because of how expressive, vocal, and similar to the human voice it can be in the hands of someone that has skills.

i have to say that like most instruments...it's only limited by a lack of imagination.

as for the notion that it's only used in jazz...it also has a long history of being used in R&R, Soul, Blues, Afro Pop, etc....

now compare that to bagpipes! talk about an instrument that's pigeonholed into one thing.

hmm.. listen to the song "last of the wilds" by a band called nightwish, it makes use of irish uilleann bagpipes and sounds quite nice.. but thats an example of the bagpipes being used outside its stereotype, i hear the bagpipes used more outside their stereotype than the sax

not sure if you guys are familiar with hornpipes.. but i might so some experimentation with those.. such as the alboka, pretty interesting

dont here these that much

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-oH3TuWSZM&hd=1

hmm.. listen to the song "last of the wilds" by a band called nightwish, it makes use of irish uilleann bagpipes and sounds quite nice.. but thats an example of the bagpipes being used outside its stereotype, i hear the bagpipes used more outside their stereotype than the sax

maybe you haven't looked hard enough or in the right places....

if an instrument is expressive (and who's gonna argue a sax ISN'T?) then the only limits w what you can w it is the imagination and creativity of the player.

sax for ONLY jazz? check these out....

Indian Carnatic Sax http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpyS2UyxIRs

Phillip Glass Violin concerto #1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdUWPA_AX6o

how about some bluegrass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6RwAlE3hYY

raga anyone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHTPxjKtOPk

tibetan overtone singing and sax http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbkGQTEsEzY

(classical) folk melodies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2UFu8HDslw

ya know, i did hear a clarinet pumped through a distortion pedal and overdrive that sounded pretty cool.. any examples of anything like that with a sax?

also, if i go with a sax then im probably not going to buy an actual sax, id probably build my own midi or electric version of one that used the same finger patterns at first

anyway.. since i already know bagpipes im keeping the option of upgrading to uilleann pipes open as well

anyway.. right now im trying to evaluate if an instrument needs to be chromatic.. most songs are done in a single key, and that key will contain only a fraction of the keys of the chromatic scale, omitting all the notes that dont fit in.. so what im wondering is how far i can go with unchromatic instruments but in a variety of different keys.. example, pennywhistles, hornpipes, etc.. simple enough to have a different instrument for every key a specific number is written for

but then again not all music uses the same scale.. there are major scales, minor scales, diatonic.. tons.. could i get a full major scale woodwind in a specific tune without the use of mechanical keys?

also.. for the sax im just not really too fond of the timbe, of the instrument sounded so close to a brass instrument.. but i wonder, are there any kind of modifications or tweaks people make to saxes to get different kinds of sounds out of them

ya know, i did hear a clarinet pumped through a distortion pedal and overdrive that sounded pretty cool.. any examples of anything like that with a sax?

also, if i go with a sax then im probably not going to buy an actual sax, id probably build my own midi or electric version of one that used the same finger patterns at first

anyway.. since i already know bagpipes im keeping the option of upgrading to uilleann pipes open as well

anyway.. right now im trying to evaluate if an instrument needs to be chromatic.. most songs are done in a single key, and that key will contain only a fraction of the keys of the chromatic scale, omitting all the notes that dont fit in.. so what im wondering is how far i can go with unchromatic instruments but in a variety of different keys.. example, pennywhistles, hornpipes, etc.. simple enough to have a different instrument for every key a specific number is written for

but then again not all music uses the same scale.. there are major scales, minor scales, diatonic.. tons.. could i get a full major scale woodwind in a specific tune without the use of mechanical keys?

also.. for the sax im just not really too fond of the timbe, of the instrument sounded so close to a brass instrument.. but i wonder, are there any kind of modifications or tweaks people make to saxes to get different kinds of sounds out of them

http://youtu.be/AykOVlEVjJA

anyway.. a single chromatic instrument can play everything.. however, most music is played in certain keys or a certain scale... so i wonder if i could get by using simpler, more traditional instruments, but tuned in different keys or to a certain scale.. like D major, A minor.. im wondering if this would be a better path to take than a single chromatic instrument with its added complications

besides.. having ones tuned to a certain scale allow me to play them easier.. straight up and down fingering, i dont have to think about what notes i need to leave out

and if i decide to go with multiple, simpler instruments in a multitude of tunings.. then im going to work on learning how to make myself some simpler, more primitive woodwind instruments like hornpipes, bombardes, shawms, and flutes

in the mean time, im going to get a cheap sax mouthpiece and make a couple PVC bodies tuned for different keys and scales and see how i like the sound of the sax.. try some different things out.. and if i like it i can get a metal body with all the keys for a chromatic scale

http://youtu.be/9i82C3BYmlM

seriously.. why the hell do you keep posting irrelevant youtube links? its starting to get annoying.. i mean, if you really dont know anything about music then it might just be better to sit quiet and learn.. instead of trolling

seriously.. why the hell do you keep posting irrelevant youtube links? its starting to get annoying.. i mean, if you really dont know anything about music then it might just be better to sit quiet and learn.. instead of trolling

vinny...you're still the funniest guy on BM! thanks for the laugh(s).

justin, i'm not looking to give you a thump on your forehead, but from your above posts it's obvious there's a few things you haven't figured out yet...welcome to the club in that regard.


i understand you're new around these parts, but if you think vinny "knows nothing about music" you're sorely mistaken. and you're likely to miss out on a valuable source of info on ALL things musical. to vinny's credit and indicative of the class he shows....he's shown great patience and tolerance to some who've given him static and grief... and STILL generously shared his knowledge and expertise. (a certain would-be sitarist comes to mind.)





vinny, you can make the check payable to PLANETGUY....that's one "P" one "L".....

ive ignored vinny.. glad this forum has that feature, i have no reason to consider him as an individual that knows anything relevant because he wastes his time attempting to troll, so im not wasting anymore of my time having to read his responses

but to stay on topic, i am leaning towards the simplicity of instruments tuned in specific scales as opposed to chromatic just for the simplicity, durability, and cost.. for example, i could take a saxophone neck and mouthpiece, attach it to a piece of PVC tube, and cut and drill that PVC tube to match any major, minor, or any other scale you could think of.. and to change keys or scales i just pop the mouthpiece off and attach it to another dirt cheap piece of tubing

i like this idea because its easier to fit in a backpack, or even a pocket and really no loss to me if it gets lost or damaged

end result would be something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0cHUVu10Hw

ive ignored vinny.. glad this forum has that feature, i have no reason to consider him as an individual that knows anything relevant because he wastes his time attempting to troll, so im not wasting anymore of my time having to read his responses

really.....cos' it seems like these might be considered RIGHT on point, no.....

The vibration of the air column in a flute/panpipe etc. does not transfer very much vibration to the walls of the tube, not nearly enough to get a good signal from a piezo element. So I doubt piezos would work very well on panpipes, or flutes in general. If you could source a piezo with that much sensitivity, then the vibrations made by handling the instrument would overwhelm any vibration that the air column could transfer to the walls of the tube. It would be more of an amplified percussion instrument.

I don't think an optical pickup would work for panpipes or flute either ... unless maybe you were a very heavy smoker.

If a sensor is available that can register the frequency of motion (or variations of density) of the air molecules, that might have brighter prospects. Barcus - Berry makes a flute microphone that has a small condenser mic element that mounts behind a small Mylar diaphragm on the inside of the flute bore.

An optical pickup could work very well with a reed instrument like harmonica or sax etc. where a vibrating reed could modulate the of light seen by the optical sensor. http://youtu.be/scKbSUMlPIQ

Yes I must have misunderstood your meaning.
I didn't get that you were already describing a midi controller here.

i dont think making electric panpipes would be all that difficult.. different length tubes cut to make different sounds, just blow into the pipe to make the sound you want.. if i were to make electric panpipes id put a piezo in the bottom with a relief hole drilled in the side to let air pressure out.. then when you blow into it the air pressure will register with the piezo, be converted into an electrical signal and then fed through an effects processor, amp, etc

anyway, i think im going to buy a clarinet and fabricate a new mouthpiece that will hold a bagpipes double-reed with a cap over top.. make a clarinet sound like a bagpipe and student clarinets for me to experiment with are like $100 and tons of resources out there for learning them vs oboe

A double reed in a clarinet will not sound very much like a typical bagpipe. A clarinet (as well as some east European and middle Eastern bagpipes) has a cylindrical bore, whereas Scottish and most west European bagpipes, (as well as oboes, bassoons, saxophones,) have a conical bore.

Here is an example of a double reed instrument with a cylindrical bore.
http://youtu.be/35jcEA3yups

The cylindrical bore overblows to the 12th, the conical bore overblows to the octave.