General Music Chat

Irminsul......I think we have different levels of musicians on board here. Some are new at things, and some are Veterans and everything in between.
So since this is very true...some do and some don't. i think Alan was just interested in identifying how many and those who do. he was doing this based on views to responses. It was just a way to sort out and see what is what.....not a bad idea i think...

Jonny,
Not as much as I'd like - I've been real low on the cash, lately, and I've needed to work a few extra hours.
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I'm not practicing/playing as much as I'd like - maybe about 1-1/2 hours a night, on the average. I'd prefer 2 or 2-1/2 hours/ day.
It's often that last 1/2 hour of practice where some on the most interesting stuff appears.
So - I haven't been able to compose much in the last 2 weeks . . .
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I still play with a couple fellows on Mondays.
The Bass player comes over another 1 - 2 times/ week, to jam.
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I had a bite from a female singer, from Ct.
When I responded - no answer.
A few days later, she told me she was in North Dakota for a while.
Seeing as I live in CT, I don't think I'll drive all the way out to ND!
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Alan

Hey Alan: sorry to hear about things....work sucks eh....hey hang in there, things will get better

Life could be worse.

Getting back to the thread -
Something interesting happened to me the other day.
I was showing someone how to play one of my songs, "Frolicking Fingers." - part of it is posted on my profile.
It has about 20 or more different chords in it, and the changes are pretty fast..
- some 9ths, 7ths, M7s, a 6th, etc, etc . . . sounds like it should clash, until you listen to it.
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Some of the chords form an 'echo.'
For example, near the end of the sound bite I posted: an Am7 followed by a D9, repeating it on descending frets (5ht, 3rd, 1st), eventually ending almost full circle to an A7. Then, back to Am.
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I finger pick it, and always considered it to be some kind of jazz.
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Anyway I was showing it to a friend, and, after working with it for about 1/2 hour or so, he remarked: "Here you are, trying to teach classical music to someone who's used to playing 3-chord blues." (or something to that effect)
That brought me up short!
- my mind went blank. Huh? Classical music? I don't play classical music, . . . uh, . . . do I?
My wife says it sounds like jazzy classical music, reminiscent of "Classical Gas," by Mason Williams.
Oh? Hmmmm . . .
Maybe that's the direction I should head, I don't know.
All those 'extra' chords sure do change things, though . . .
After a while, they become part of you . . .

Then, of course, you have to realize that theory isn't something that comes natural to some people - SRV spent most of his life without so much as understanding the time signature on a page of sheet music, but that didn't stop him from using diminished chords and strange fingerings.

As a bass player of about one (that is, a single) decade, I spent half of that time playing covers in bars, making some decent cash for doing what I like, and people enjoyed listening to me. Why should I worry if I'm playing 6ths, 7ths, or 9ths? I only realized, when I hit a plateau after six or seven years of playing, that it was time to learn this "theory" that all the "old people" were going on about.

It's been a struggle.

I don't know what I'm doing, fairly frequently, as far as to be able to explain in "theoretical" terms... I just groove, and it works. Only in the last couple of years have I been able to understand progressions, major and minor keys and/or modes. I'm still looking for a bass player I can sit down with to show me how all this fits into playing.

I'd just like to point out, though, that knowing all this doesn't necessarily make you a better player - "you can't hold no groove if you ain't got no pocket." And you can know all the theory in the world, but if you're not able to really feel the music, it won't impress me.[/b]

neurotictim,
Yeah, you've got to SOUND good.
I never studied theory, myself, believe it or not.
But, I created songs, and when a chord didn't have the right 'feel' to it, I experimented with different fingerings untill it sounded the same as it did in my head.
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It wasn't untill several years later, when I decided I needed to write down my songs, I realized I needed to know what to CALL all those cool chords.
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I mean, I can't just write down "its' something like a Bm7th, but different," because nobody whould know what to play.
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So then I went through about 4 - 5 chord charts by differnt publishers, and found 5 -6 of the chords listed.
It wasn't until I bought a book by Ted Green that I was able to find most of the chords.
And - in looking them up, I found a lot of other neat-sounding chords.
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It helps to know this stuff when you're a composer, because sometimes you want to change the 'flavor' of a song just a little bit.
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As far as learning them - what you could do is to pick a chord - say, an E9, and have a guitarist play that one chord while you played with it. Then go to, say, an E7th and play with that, too.
I'll bet you'll find you've been playing patterns around a lot of these chords already.
Alan

The importance of theory notwithstanding, when the actual playing of music stops and the theoretical discussion begins, my eyes just glaze over. I had a bad experience with that once when I was invited to a harp circle, and wanted to start playing (I am a jamming junkie). We did about two songs, (uncomfortably so because a few of the participants made some exasperated faces three measures into the song and then quit playiing) and the "playing circle" almost immediately devolved into a round table discussion about their instruments and the history of Gaelic song. I downed my watered-down punch and cookies, packed up and left at that point.

Let's PLAY or let's not....I don't want to sit around with instruments at hand and flap the gums instead.

Let's PLAY or let's not....I don't want to sit around with instruments at hand and flap the gums instead.

A friggin' men, dude.

I understand that theory is important - once you reach a certain level, you reach a plateau and can't seriously advance without it - but when you spend as much (or more) time talking about what you're playing it, and less time feelin' it, you officially suck regardless of your theoretical knowledge.

I practice 7 days a week, and play with others at least twice a week.
I play all the time. I play until I can't play any longer . . . .
It's ok to unwind with a nice conversation, once in a while. Once the callusses on my fingertips start fraying and flaking off from playing all the time, it hurts too much to play, anyway.
Sometimes my fingertips are so sore and mushy that it even hurts to type, man - I put in MY time playing.
They still hurt from last night, but I have a 5 hour practice session with a vocalist today, to work out some melodies.
And Monday, I've got another 5 hour session, with 2 others . . .
I don't know how often everyone else plays, though.

Alan/Irminsul/neurotictim: Just wanted to say that I happen to agree...theory is not everything, it is a nother valuable tool, but it does not substitue for how you express yourself through music. I know scads of players who can burn scales like lightning...i only know a handfull that can make it sound real good. Playing whatever instrument of your choice, the same applies...besides being a Lead guitar player, I also love the bass and I play the keyboards as well....let's play and let the music out of our hearts and souls, let's talk that tune.....leave the theory behind.

[BMix]

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Uh, ok . . .
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So, does anyone like using 6ths, 7ths, or 9ths in their music?
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Anybody here write songs with multiple unusual chords? (Not just the aforementioned ones . . . )
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Any classical musicians here?

I was raised on classical piano - I have some of my recent compositions here ->

http://www.myspace.com/irminsulpiano

I like Etude in Bflat minor & the (2) Scherzos the most.
I prefer mostly upbeat stuff . . .
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If you were to agree that placing a sequence of chords together might influence a sequence of emotions from the listener, - what do you prefer?
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or, what might you like having as the predominate emotion in your music, on your typical day?
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My music fluctuates with my moods . . . laconic, triumphant, wistful, happy, melancholy, frivalous . . .

I like songs which are crafted in such a manner as to evoke complex emotions, - hard to describe, - but on the positive side.

I feel the same way you do about the emotional approach to a given piece. It's very much effected by how I feel at the time, although there is one caveat to this belief - most of my compositions come with an inate emotional reason for being. For instance if I'm moved to write a solemn, adagio piece I may well wait until I'm in the right emotional space to write it.

I don't much think about trying to alter the listener's mood or not, I just do these pieces for their own reasons and see what happens from there.