General Music Chat

Whew, that was hard Yod! So I guess it's just a semantics thing? I guess we just differ on the definition of doing cover songs vs being in a cover band?

I always thought bands whose set list was 90% cover tunes it was essentially a cover band. You know, like The Beatles, The Stones, Bob Dylan, Three Dog Night, Stevie Ray Vaughn and Double Trouble, Jimmy Buffet, Van Halen who were all playing 90% cover songs when they got signed to a label. If the Stones first 3 albums and tours were cover songs but they were not a "cover band", I guess I just don't understand what a "cover band" is then. Now I'm so confused.

Here is what Wiki says FWIW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_band

Again, it was very different in the formation of a new genre called "rock n roll" but that was 50 years ago now.




Beatles first album has 6 covers out of 14 songs:


Side one
No. Title Lead vocals Length
1. "I Saw Her Standing There" McCartney 2:54
2. "Misery" Lennon and McCartney 1:49
3. "Anna (Go to Him)" (Arthur Alexander) Lennon 2:57
4. "Chains" (Gerry Goffin, Carole King) George Harrison 2:26
5. "Boys" (Luther Dixon, Wes Farrell) Ringo Starr 2:27
6. "Ask Me Why" Lennon 2:26
7. "Please Please Me" Lennon 2:03

Side two
No. Title Lead vocals Length
1. "Love Me Do" McCartney and Lennon 2:23
2. "P.S. I Love You" McCartney 2:04
3. "Baby It's You" (Mack David, Barney Williams, Burt Bacharach)Lennon 2:40
4. "Do You Want to Know a Secret" Harrison 1:59
5. "A Taste of Honey" (Bobby Scott, Ric Marlow) McCartney 2:03
6. "There's a Place" Lennon and McCartney 1:51
7. "Twist and Shout" (Phil Medley, Bert Russell) Lennon 2:37


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The Rolling Stones had 1 original out of 12 on their first album. It would be a few years before Jagger/Richards would become good songwriters.

No. Title Length
1. "Not Fade Away" (Charles Hardin/Norman Petty) 1:48
2. "Route 66" (Bobby Troup) 2:20
3. "I Just Want to Make Love to You" (Willie Dixon) 2:17
4. "Honest I Do" (Jimmy Reed) 2:09
5. "Now I've Got a Witness" (Nanker Phelge) 2:29
6. "Little by Little" (Phelge/Phil Spector) 2:39

Side two
No. Title Length
7. "I'm a King Bee" (Slim Harpo) 2:35
8. "Carol" (Chuck Berry) 2:33
9. "Tell Me" (Mick Jagger/Keith Richards) 4:05
10. "Can I Get a Witness" (Brian Holland/Lamont Dozier/Eddie Holland) 2:55
11. "You Can Make It If You Try" (Ted Jarrett) 2:01
12. "Walking the Dog" (Rufus Thomas) 3:10


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But since the 80s, labels stopped signing bands and starting signing the songwriters



ALL SONGS on Lady Gaga's debut are written or co-written by her

U2 - All lyrics written by Bono, all music composed by U2.

The Police - 99% by Sting, the rest by the Police

Van Halen had 2 covers out of 11 on their first

Here's a list of the top 50 artists by Rolling Stone magazine.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... w-20130731

You not find many cover songs being done in that entire list. Some? Yea...but no cover bands make that list since the mid 70s.



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Springsteen does some covers, so does Macca. Of course I don't trust ANY Rolling Stone 'best' list! And I don't disagree with you.

Funny how any discussion of "making it" immediately refers to people whom made their mark 30 years ago, or are already dead, just like the industry they made their mark in.

Today & tomorrow . . . mostly . . . TODAY.

Man, I am I missing the boat it or what? What the hell is wrong with playing and learning epic cover songs simply because someone else has done them? Sometimes "Cover Song" is a dirty word around here with some. Turning a truly great song into your own is great fun when you can do it. And when rock and roll first hit the scene (Called rock a billy in the beginning) A lot of stuff was plagiarized . Elves made a lot of money doing songs he stole from local musicians playing the clubs in those days.

It is good to play cover songs and it is good to blend in your original songs with those. A lot of guys do that. I like playing both. It's cool to play whatever rocks your soul. That's where you get music with feeling.

Well, how about 2010:
http://flashmobrocks.wordpress.com/2010 ... -sony-bmg/

Or 2012- Playing covers live over 7 years to "make it"
http://marqueemag.com/2012/10/01/the-sh ... bel-debut/

Yes, bands covering other peoples music live are still getting picked up by major labels today, just as they have been over the last 50 years. It is definitely one of the well worn paths to the OPs "making it". I think this was my point all along.

I'm with you Slacker, play the music that rocks your soul. Carry on gents...

Man, I am I missing the boat it or what? What the hell is wrong with playing and learning epic cover songs simply because someone else has done them?:)

Nothing is wrong with doing covers in the least. But that isn't really the point of the discussion. In the Lefzits blogs he says you can't "make it" (and he's talking about major label status) doing covers today.

He's right.

Dave has correctly pointed out that so many in the formative years of rock & roll did that, but I'm countering him with the fact that it hasn't happened in 4 decades now. Just a topic on music.

Probably every major label artist who does a recording will have at least one cover on their project because so few are able to fill an entire album with good songs they've written, but they are still recording (mostly) songs that have publishing owned by the label's publishing company.


....no need to bother with this thread if you aren't trying to "make it" anyway. I just thought some of our english counterparts might appreciate the blog.






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Maybe should make that 2 1/2 for the Stones ...

5. "Now I've Got a Witness" (Nanker Phelge) 2:29
6. "Little by Little" (Phelge/Phil Spector) 2:39
9. "Tell Me" (Mick Jagger/Keith Richards) 4:05

"... anything credited to Nanker Phelge refers to a Mick Jagger/Brian Jones/Keith Richards/Charlie Watts/Bill Wyman collaborative composition"

I've played my share of covers but it was never my thing. I can usually write music in the time it takes me to learn it - unless I'm being paid to play I may learn an interesting lick or hook but mostly play for myself.

Now in an original band I think it is cool to include one or at most, two covers - but to do an arrangement of them that brands them.

One thing the sixties bands have over many or even most current outfits is that they all had a unique sound. You hear four bars of Jeff Airplane, Doors, Hendrix, Beatles, Stones, et al, and you knew who it was.

Part of it was that they weren't so over produced. The guitar expertise both in playing ability and in technical ability, that we encounter here on Bandmix today, was not so prevalent in those days. Players used a wide variety of instruments and amps and recorded in much simpler environments. In some ways, I think I prefer that - diversity rule eh?

And lead guitar? The early sixties stuff had very little. I still prefer a couple bars of stinging lead from Keith Richards to ten minutes of Clapton emoting over a twelve bar turnaround.

Ultimately a lot of players got it right, mixing tremendous playing with the song (as opposed to a guitar guy showing off for a while and then getting back to the song) - I suppose we can thank Zep for that. Jimmy Page could wail with the very best but you always knew he was playing an actual song - not a 'look at me' exercise in bending strings.

Talbot

Because . . .

No one is going to push our music but us.

We do some covers, if it was 100% up to me we would not do any.

No one is going to push our music but us.

I turned the channel and there was Elvis doing the live Hawii concert. After two sets I still haven't heard him do an original. He sang Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, Ray Charles, Little Richard, Eddie Arnold, Righteous Brothers, and hits by many others. When he began he sang songs he stole from the local musicians.

On one hand you have Paul Simon, the Beatles and many others that are good at writing. Who knows how many cover gigs they had under their belts before they caught the attention of an agent? Then you have Elvis who has done almost nothing but covers in this concert. I sure hope he got paid for it.

There is no set formula for making it. I don't care what anyone thinks. I don't care how many people write the book on how to make it big. The luck of the draw, destiny, the hand of providence is the only thing that gets you there. God meddles in the lives of men. Look at all the talentless idiots that have made millions, and then look around you at the many people you know personally in your life that have far more talent yet have gone no where. So it is best for you to play what passion dictates in order that you can put everything you have into a performance.

As a Christian, I believe that it is God who determines a mans destiny. But then, that is my personal belief, even though it may throw cold water on such a discussion as this one.

I turned the channel and there was Elvis doing the live Hawii concert. After two sets I still haven't heard him do an original. He sang Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, Ray Charles, Little Richard, Eddie Arnold, Righteous Brothers, and hits by many others. When he began he sang songs he stole from the local musicians.

I went to his house yesterday (birthplace in Tupelo, not Graceland in Memphis), and the church where he was saved and began his "career" as a singer.

Like I said to Dave that was 50 years ago for the Beatles, and for you I say that was 60 years ago.

Not sure if you've noticed but things changed a little since then.

There is no set formula for making it.

True word, that. But any plan requires effort towards the goal to succeed, even if the path isn't identical to how someone else got there. Dumb luck is rarely enough to get a break, and you don't last long with that plan anyway.

As a Christian, I believe that it is God who determines a mans destiny. But then, that is my personal belief, even though it may throw cold water on such a discussion as this one.

Why would it be cold water? Of course I also believe in the sovereignty of God yet we have freewill. We are responsible for the choices we make, and being wise in our "works" is highly recommended in the scriptures.




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Not sure if you've noticed but things changed a little since then.

Is that supposed to be an insult in sarcastic fashion? I notice most everything and have for a very long time. Nothing that I have seen has changed that much. The more things change the more they seem the same to me. It was all about money then, it is all about money today. It was the big fish get the biggest cut and the artist is worked to the bone with tours and the likes. The fat cats sit back and collect from the wages of the musicians and the promotions. Or has that changed so much?

Music delivery has changed. Musicians used to go to a studio and make a recording. Then they would sell them at their gigs. A few actually almost broke even, considering everything. Today they can hawk their music on web sites. I have yet to hear of the musicians that are making millions through internet related efforts. There are gazillions of composer musicians on the net giving away music far better than anything I could even dream up. So when great music is free, how do you get the minions to want to pay for yours? So the internet gives you exposure, but most of the time I hear musicians complaining that they can't get exposure on the net.

Fate has it that one band gets heard by an agent in some out of the way club. He likes them and becomes their agent and they become big names. Another band, equally as talented or even better plays in prominent venues and nothing ever becomes of it.

So we have the internet to promote ourselves. Since I have been on the Internet and on music sites I am astounded by the number of musicians that have attained remarkable success. No, wait a minute. All I hear is where can I go for someone to hear my music or how little attention they get no matter where they go. Maybe your right. Maybe things have changed. But I still see the great majority of musicians going through life without a break, and some have really tried and were truly a cut above.

Now I am not one of those who looked for greatness. I'm one of those guys that just gets a lot of reward simply by working out the intricacies of a song and getting it from a thought to something that is rewarding in itself.

If there are rulebooks for success then there are also a rulebooks for the probability of success. The latter is what most find out sooner or later. Facts are ugly. Perhaps it is good to dream dreams, but it is also good to simply get enjoyment out of what you love where ever you are in the larger scheme of things in the music world. Best not to get jaded.

I'm jaded, Yod, I've been here long enough to see things as they are not as I wish them to be. A pyramid of millions and millions of musicians and only a handful on top. And a lot of those are still complaining.

A how to make it bucket list might be inspiring but I doubt it's fruitfulness.

I don't know of anyone I encounter on a regular weekly basis who buys any music (CDs or downloads). They want to hear something, they kick on a youtube. Of course I'm an 'old fart'. There's probably hundres/thousands of 'kids' under 25 years old buying tunes from iTunes, etc. There must be or these places would go out of business.
I've only sold one copy of my 2nd CD on amazon, but a couple of dozen in person. So does my music suck? The guys who bought my cd likd it, mostly. The songs I play from it live are enjoyed and get good comments.
Point? Don't quit my day job!

You can get my CD here:
http://www.amazon.com/Peace-Freedom-San ... mike+birch

Hey, good conversation guys. We don't all completely agree but everyone made fair points and it stayed civil without going off on the crazy train and threatening to burn each others house down. Imagine that! A civil yet spirited discussion about a very valid music topic is what keeps BM interesting. Cool!