General Music Chat

I hope somebody here, can either acknowledge or refute the rumour I am ever increasingly hearing as I idly spend my day browsing the forums on the web, that the government is stockpiling hollow point ammunition ? why is the ammunition hollow point? is this not the type of ammo used to hunt deer and elk etc.? are they only supporting the ammunition manufacturers market? trying to prop up a depressed ammo market? when you can come acrooss .22 rounds locally the dealers want an arm and a leg for them.. even the wally world sporting goods dept. guy told me .22 rounds are not available due to the government buying them.. my take on the hollow point .308 rounds is they will need ammo at the FEMA Camp guardhouses and will need the field bosses armed in the fields to supervise us when were tending, planting, harvesting crops by hand

You don't trust this regime on the ammo matter? It has already been addressed by the feds. They said that they need the hollow point ammo for target practice. Oops.. they failed to mention that you may be the target.

Oh yeah. The hollow point ammo contains less led. So the regime is being environmentally responsible by buying hollow point ammo.... yeah that's the ticket.. they're only being responsible.

Allow me to educate briefly:

Projectiles are hollow pointed for several reasons.
The two primary are :

1) External Ballistic Advantage . . . IE the hollow point serves to smooth out if you will, the hypersonic shock wave that can disturb external ballistic performance.
Most often this is munitions intended for long range target shooting, and is not suitable as hunting ammunition because it's construction does not allow for good terminal ballistic performance.
Some modern "sniper" munitions are currently being produced and utilized by the military that posses both.
However it should be noted that the terminal ballistic performance requirements of military and hunting munitions is not the same.

2)Terminal Ballistic Advantage: Hollow points are also utilized to increase or control the expansion of the projectile in it's intended end ballistic media.
This gets very complicated, but to simply put it, self defense munitions are often constructed with hollow points to promote rapid expansion so that the full kinetic energy of the round is "dumped" inside the target in order to impart the greatest tissue damage and hydrostatic shock.
This is also in most cases not suitable as "hunting" munitions.

A projectile designed to efficiently kill large game must both penetrate fully ( hide hair bone muscle ETC ) as well as to expand nominally to twice it's unfired diameter in the end substrate.
A good "deer bullet" is not substantially constructed to be utilized on Elk or the Great Bears. Conversely a bullet constructed to fully penetrate an Elk will not fully ( if at all ) expand to deliver adequate kinetic energy for a clean kill on smaller Deer size game..

My hunting ammunition is generally of a soft point design, and I purchase as well as hand-load load it to specific velocity to match the intended Terminal Ballistic media.
My "defensive" munitions are constructed for two purpose.
In handgun calibers:
Rapid Expansion - to not over penetrate and to dump it's full kinetic energy potential into the target .
In rifle calibers:
To penetrate barriers, be that heavy clothing, car doors / glass, walls or ballistic vests.

shows how much I've hunted deer other than with shotgun slugs, only permissable ammo allowed for deer hunting in Iowa, (at least the last time I went deer hunting in Iowa (1972) I havce not hunted any game since the 1970's ever since I left my beloved Iowa.. not a big wild turkey fan, or deer/venison fan unless it is corn-fed.. too gamey here in southern Missouri..

Allow me to educate briefly:

Projectiles are hollow pointed for several reasons.
The two primary are :

1) External Ballistic Advantage . . . IE the hollow point serves to smooth out if you will, the hypersonic shock wave that can disturb external ballistic performance.
Most often this is munitions intended for long range target shooting, and is not suitable as hunting ammunition because it's construction does not allow for good terminal ballistic performance.
Some modern "sniper" munitions are currently being produced and utilized by the military that posses both.
However it should be noted that the terminal ballistic performance requirements of military and hunting munitions is not the same.

2)Terminal Ballistic Advantage: Hollow points are also utilized to increase or control the expansion of the projectile in it's intended end ballistic media.
This gets very complicated, but to simply put it, self defense munitions are often constructed with hollow points to promote rapid expansion so that the full kinetic energy of the round is "dumped" inside the target in order to impart the greatest tissue damage and hydrostatic shock.
This is also in most cases not suitable as "hunting" munitions.

A projectile designed to efficiently kill large game must both penetrate fully ( hide hair bone muscle ETC ) as well as to expand nominally to twice it's unfired diameter in the end substrate.
A good "deer bullet" is not substantially constructed to be utilized on Elk or the Great Bears. Conversely a bullet constructed to fully penetrate an Elk will not fully ( if at all ) expand to deliver adequate kinetic energy for a clean kill on smaller Deer size game..

My hunting ammunition is generally of a soft point design, and I purchase as well as hand-load load it to specific velocity to match the intended Terminal Ballistic media.
My "defensive" munitions are constructed for two purpose.
In handgun calibers:
Rapid Expansion - to not over penetrate and to dump it's full kinetic energy potential into the target .
In rifle calibers:
To penetrate barriers, be that heavy clothing, car doors / glass, walls or ballistic vests.

You do know that my post was in response to the actual regurgitated BS that the government spokes bitch used to explain the hording of hollow point ammo , right?

Dane

Yeah. Iowa has very stringent requirements regarding projectile composition used for hunting ammo.

Here is a video about the "shortage" by Hornady that was in print form when I read it. I can't find that link but in the story they claimed it was because scalpers are buying ammo by the truckloads before it hits the shelves. I don't really buy into that. Perhaps the video has a better explanation? But for my slow line modem I would really like to see this one.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/video.php?id=24570

I just found this one where Hornady suspends manufacturing 150 types of ammo.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... e-of-2013/

My simplistic treatment on External and Terminal Ballistics was in response to Dane's question about hollow points.

I purchase munitions most often in bulk and on line.
Even with paying shipping myself, it is cheaper, it is more available than most people will admit, and the variety is greater.

I also, as stated before, manufacture my own for specific needs.
A range trip with family / friends can entail >1000 rounds down range.
I'm not your "average shooter".
Though I figure you had gathered that by now.

My simplistic treatment on External and Terminal Ballistics was in response to Dane's question about hollow points.

I purchase munitions most often in bulk and on line.
Even with paying shipping myself, it is cheaper, it is more available than most people will admit, and the variety is greater.

I also, as stated before, manufacture my own for specific needs.
A range trip with family / friends can entail >1000 rounds down range.
I'm not your "average shooter".
Though I figure you had gathered that by now.

George, don't ya have to have the dealer ship to a local firearms dealer to do it legally, or is that just for firearms..I know there has been a gun or two on gunbroker.com I would liked to have bid on if not for the hassle of shipping ammo and firearms /long guns..

Ammo is now readily available again in Georgia. Including 'green tip' .223 rounds if you are the type of guy who thinks you might need them.

You can read about those so called 'penetrators' in Blackhawk Down and draw your own conclusions.

They look amazingly, a lot like the Hornady Zombie rounds. (yeah, I had to get a few - you just don't know who will turn up at your door these days)

Talbot

Firearms must be shipped to an FFL.
A local business charges me about $15.00 to receive firearms for me.
Everything else my UPS man brings to the house.
He's very cordial for some reason.

I don't own a gun or hunt and know jack doodoo about bullets. but I can stick your ass with a casted spoon from 100 feet, and the government hasn't hoarded any fishing lures to my knowledge!

Maybe I need to get out my bow and get some target practice...

Maybe I need to get out my bow and get some target practice...

Pete... You better go by a gun. Sling shots and bow and arrows aren't gonna cut it if... you have any faith in the second amendment.

It basically says this... If you are American born, you have the RIGHT, to protect yourself.

From the minute you are born in America, you have the RIGHT, to protect yourself. This is not a privilege, THIS IS A RIGHT!

This RIGHT to protect yourself includes all enemies from minor attacks from other individuals, to foreign enemies, to the very government of our country, should it become capricious and arbitrary.

Things are getting a bit capricious arbitrary.

Maybe I need to get out my bow and get some target practice...

Pete... You better go by a gun. Sling shots and bow and arrows aren't gonna cut it if... you have any faith in the second amendment.

It basically says this... If you are American born, you have the RIGHT, to protect yourself.

From the minute you are born in America, you have the RIGHT, to protect yourself. This is not a privilege, THIS IS A RIGHT!

This RIGHT to protect yourself includes all enemies from minor attacks from other individuals, to foreign enemies, to the very government of our country, should it become capricious and arbitrary.

Things are getting a bit capricious arbitrary.

I have absolutely NO problem with anybody owning a gun. It IS your right and NOBODY should ever take that right away from you.

Thanks Bob.
The thing I appreciate about you ( besides you musical skill ) your an upright kinda guy.