General Music Chat

this talk about Christ has me confused.. I am not an expert like some of you when it comes to explaining "Christ" so don't beat up on me if I sound un-educated about the phenomenon known as Christ.. but has Christ come? the Jews believe Christ is yet to come? was the man known as Jesus then a true Christ? or deliverer of the good news or will he come when the Jews say he has arrived here on earth?

"Christos" is a judeo-greek word meaning "anointed one". I say "judeo" because the greeks had no concept of anointing, but their language was adapted for a greek speaking world. Kinda like yiddish is to german.

But the "Moshiach" (Messiah) is a unique kind of "christos" and that debate had been going for centuries before Jesus appeared. I realize that's probably a distinction you don't understand, but the point is that Messiah is a unique person in history, while Christos described King David and even King Cyrus of Persia in the Tenach (Old Testament)

Anyway, Jesus' reported resurrection caused a huge split within the people of Israel and that divide caused problems when the Jews revolted against Rome. Because those who believed in Jesus followed his pre-spoken instruction to "flee to the mountains" when the city would be surrounded, they were branded traitors by the larger Jewish community at Yavneh (90 AD) and it has been tragically compounded by a rejection from the gentiles who joined them in the "church".

It's still a serious rift as this article about some friends of mine will show. I was invited to this dinner but didn't go because a politician was the keynote speaker. LOL

http://m.forward.com/articles/187934/ge ... us-ga/?p=3

Yod,

I guess what you are saying has nothing whatsoever to do with how I believe. No Jewish leaders in the church? All there are is Jews in the church of Christ for it is written:

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew that is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh; but he is a Jew that is one inwardly, and circumcision is of heart, in spirit, not in letter; of whom the praise is not from men, but from God.

Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.

Rom 2:9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.


As far as God having anything to do with the blessing or the curse of a country (As mentioned in another post ) I know you unbelievers can't understand, but it is written that the things of God are foolishness to the carnal mind.

Deu 11:26 "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you today, and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way that I am commanding you today, to go after other gods that you have not known.

Isa 24:1 Behold, the LORD will empty the earth and make it desolate, and he will twist its surface and scatter its inhabitants. And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the slave, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the creditor, so with the debtor. The earth shall be utterly empty and utterly plundered; for the LORD has spoken this word. The earth mourns and withers; the world languishes and withers; the highest people of the earth languish. The earth lies defiled under its inhabitants; for they have transgressed the laws, violated the statutes, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse devours the earth, and its inhabitants suffer for their guilt; therefore the inhabitants of the earth are scorched, and few men are left.

Speaking of the latter days of which I believe we are in.

Yod,

I guess what you are saying has nothing whatsoever to do with how I believe. No Jewish leaders in the church? All there are is Jews in the church of Christ for it is written:

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew that is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh; but he is a Jew that is one inwardly, and circumcision is of heart, in spirit, not in letter; of whom the praise is not from men, but from God.

Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.

Rom 2:9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.


As far as God having anything to do with the blessing or the curse of a country (As mentioned in another post ) I know you unbelievers can't understand, but it is written that the things of God are foolishness to the carnal mind.

Deu 11:26 "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you today, and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way that I am commanding you today, to go after other gods that you have not known.

Isa 24:1 Behold, the LORD will empty the earth and make it desolate, and he will twist its surface and scatter its inhabitants. And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the slave, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the creditor, so with the debtor. The earth shall be utterly empty and utterly plundered; for the LORD has spoken this word. The earth mourns and withers; the world languishes and withers; the highest people of the earth languish. The earth lies defiled under its inhabitants; for they have transgressed the laws, violated the statutes, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse devours the earth, and its inhabitants suffer for their guilt; therefore the inhabitants of the earth are scorched, and few men are left.

Speaking of the latter days of which I believe we are in.

and were jimmy d here among us would he not say unto thee, lo...."these are the words of MAN who wrote the bible and not the words of god."?

yes....i doth believe he would.

Yod,

I guess what you are saying has nothing whatsoever to do with how I believe. No Jewish leaders in the church? All there are is Jews in the church of Christ for it is written:

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew that is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh; but he is a Jew that is one inwardly, and circumcision is of heart, in spirit, not in letter; of whom the praise is not from men, but from God.

Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.

Rom 2:9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.


As far as God having anything to do with the blessing or the curse of a country (As mentioned in another post ) I know you unbelievers can't understand, but it is written that the things of God are foolishness to the carnal mind.

Deu 11:26 "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you today, and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way that I am commanding you today, to go after other gods that you have not known.

Isa 24:1 Behold, the LORD will empty the earth and make it desolate, and he will twist its surface and scatter its inhabitants. And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the slave, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the creditor, so with the debtor. The earth shall be utterly empty and utterly plundered; for the LORD has spoken this word. The earth mourns and withers; the world languishes and withers; the highest people of the earth languish. The earth lies defiled under its inhabitants; for they have transgressed the laws, violated the statutes, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse devours the earth, and its inhabitants suffer for their guilt; therefore the inhabitants of the earth are scorched, and few men are left.

Speaking of the latter days of which I believe we are in.

and were jimmy d here among us would he not say unto thee, lo...."these are the words of MAN who wrote the bible and not the words of god."?

yes....i doth believe he would.

I'm sure he would. Ignorance is without boundaries. It is written. "The fool says in his heart that there is no God" But then, some of the things that I write are not for those without the wisdom of God. How can one tell a believer anything about the God that they do not believe exists with any credibility?

Have you ever noticed how these non believers that say there is no god turn to religion when they get old and on deaths door, also when they are in jail or the joint? Hospitals and prisons every where are full of innocent and religious people?

Ignorance is without boundaries.

most def.

Have you ever noticed how these non believers that say there is no god turn to religion when they get old and on deaths door, also when they are in jail or the joint? Hospitals and prisons every where are full of innocent and religious people?

jeff, i've no hard data or statistics to back it up but i'm of the opinion that this is much, much more the case w people who've made a wrong turn or two turning to christianity when at death's door or when they find themselves in the slammer.

pretty tempting since it offers up a "get out of jail free" pass....just repent your sins, ask for forgiveness, accept jesus and all is forgiven. not so easy w other religions.

if there is a god ....i'd rather be judged by my actual deeds and how i lived my life and treated others. not whether i recanted and repented for my crappy behavior and misdeeds by asking forgiveness later and after the fact.

to each his own. as long as no wimmens, small children, or animals are hurt in testing.

Yod,

I guess what you are saying has nothing whatsoever to do with how I believe. No Jewish leaders in the church? All there are is Jews in the church of Christ for it is written:

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew that is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh; but he is a Jew that is one inwardly, and circumcision is of heart, in spirit, not in letter; of whom the praise is not from men, but from God.
.

ah...one of my pet peeves.

That verse is written specifically to jews about jews. It has nothing to do with gentiles becoming jews, if you would only read it in the context of the surrounding verses. And again...if you take an overview of the entire book of Romans, Paul is explaining the theological underpinnings to address a rift that had developed between Jews and Gentiles in Rome.

But it's a bit sad that you brushed off an important lesson about the history of how we got to where we are, and why the "church" is so dysfunctional throughout most of it's history.

Whether you choose to look or not, the dark ages began when the gentile leaders kicked the jews out and turned a world-changing vibrant community into spectators through the use of applying greco-theology.

I could recommend many books that would enlighten your understanding, if you care to find out. A slow awakening began with the invention of the printing press, but there is still much erroneous theology in european history to overcome for the truth to be seen.

Not that it affects your salvation; you are saved by grace through faith. But even those terms in greco-church are not fully understood as they were handed down to us by the original Jewish faith-community.

In the original language and intent, "grace" is God's power to overcome sin. "Faith" is strong trust, which is seen only in our actions and has nothing to do with our intellectual agreement to a set of principles or creeds.


.

An in dept study of biblical principles based on historical and ethnic origins is very helpful in obtain some slight understandings.
The bottom line remains.

Christianity is about Christ . . . not Christians.

Like a natural birth, rebirth in Christ is just the beginning of a life long growth.

Over the last several years I've grown more than in the previous 50 because I place myself in greater contact with the Word and spend much more time in quite contemplation and prayer with the Lord so the Spirit will work in my spirit.

Just like being in a high level college course . . . you want to know more.
Go to the source.

Vinny

You are a sick man! That said - when I was fourteen I went to the public library and asked them to order the Necromicon for me.

As you well know:

"Across strange eons even death may die."

Talbot

ah...one of my pet peeves.

That verse is written specifically to jews about jews. It has nothing to do with gentiles becoming jews, if you would only read it in the context of the surrounding verses. And again...if you take an overview of the entire book of Romans, Paul is explaining the theological underpinnings to address a rift that had developed between Jews and Gentiles in Rome.

Ah.... if only I could afford the luxury of having "pet Peeves" (The Lord does not allow me to have them)
If a person only gleans the surface meaning of scriptural passages then that truly is all there is to them. As far as church history. I'm with George on that one. The only church history that concerns me is the church history that began when God revealed Himself to me and showed me what Christ did on my behalf. All the rest, I feel, is inconsequential to my faith.

The only church history that concerns me is the church history that began when God revealed Himself to me and showed me what Christ did on my behalf. All the rest, I feel, is inconsequential to my faith.

Which explains why the culture is no longer impacted by christians. We are a selfish lot, and only interested in looking out for #1. God forbid that we would consider the truth about Christian history and possibly do something to right the wrongs!

No hard feelings toward you, brother. That is unfortunately all too common in western christianity, which I why I'd rather hang out with pagan musicians than visit christian discussion groups ever again. Pagans are at least honest about base emotions, while we act sanctimonious to cover it.

Dang...I miss jimmy


Have a nice day.

Before I joined a church I studied religion intently. Luckily so - the first church I joined was doctrinally dead on it's feet.

Faith is great. Grace saves us. But Doctrine does matter. Doctrine won't get you into heaven but as CS Lewis once wrote, "Faith in God is a wonderful thing. His Word is our handbook for understanding it."

I made a speech to the young confirmands once and reminded them - Christians may have the occasional 'mountain top' experience with our hearts bursting with enthusiasm for the faith - but when you're screaming in agony whilst dying of some dread disease you must depend upon your brain more than your heart - the knowledge of saving grace can come in handy!

Talbot