General Music Chat

Dude

so you've met Christian hypocrites. Big deal. The question is not about that - it's about one thing only: Is it true?

Every daggone person in the world could be an asshole and wouldn't change the reality of God and His Saving grace.

Talbot

Mike "Dude", Im not questioning "God" or his saving grace. I posted my comments that some "Christians" that I have met are phoney and hypocrites And that my friend is "True".

And you're right, of course. That was what got the thread started in the first place.

"Christians" aren't saved by what comes from their mouth or intellect, but by faith, which from a root-word meaning "strong trust". In other words, what they do with the grace they've been given is the measure of how much faith they have. And the Apostles tell us that faith without good works (changed ways) is dead, and not faith at all.

But depending on when you catch any of us, we are all still capable of falling and depend on mercy.



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Zar

I'm not meaning to beat up on you - sorry if it seemed like that - we've all met annoying Christians. I think CS Lewis described that best when he noted that if they seem like a pain in the ass at church just imagine what they'd be without it! (I paraphrase)

I get that better than most because I'm certainly the odd man out at my church - but folks do work hard to try and make me feel welcome. I'm sure some see me as a radical ass hole - but they make the effort. So I do too.

Talbot

Appreciated Mike. My first reply was associated with Bob and Yods' first posts. When I was yngr I was surprised how two-faced and nasty some of the "Religeous" people I knew actually were. And how sad I found that it only got worse as I got older. Call me naive, when I was yngr I thought that "Religeous" people where supposed to be"nice" and "good" and "understanding", I was wrong. So long ago I realized that they are just people like everyone else and regardless of what they think, they are no better than anyone, they will also sin, And boy do they.

You still don't get it ?

"Religious" people Christians, are just people.

We are no different than any other man.

Christianity is not about Christians it is about Christ, sacrificed and resurrected.

Do we disrespect a band because their fans cant sing ?

You still don't get it ?

"Religious" people Christians, are just people.

We are no different than any other man.

Christianity is not about Christians it is about Christ, sacrificed and resurrected.

Do we disrespect a band because their fans cant sing ?

George, I get it. But I STILL grapple with its meaning. I believe some "Christians" use the excuse of mercy to do non-Christian things, to put it mildly, and then say that "they are saved." Perhaps I am being judgemental about their being self-judgemental. I believe the accounting happens AFTER we exit this mortal existence, when we're at the "pearly gates." It is not up to me to judge that I am saved. It is up to me to HOPE that I am saved, and live a life BY EXAMPLE that proves it to others, not by my telling them, self-righteously, that I am saved and that I "consider myself a holy man" as others have told me. I understand fully Christ's sacrifice. I also understand that it is NO COINCIDENCE that his death just by pure dumb luck came during Passover, when blood was put over the doorway of Jews so that God would spare their first born. The blood that Christ shed and the blood put over the doorways was THE SAME. A lot of people miss that point and its meaning...

A lot of Christian failings come from the "leaders" of the church. ie People NOT called to serve as Teachers, Shepard's, and pastors, along with other offices in the church. Discipleship is NOT taught and Christians are not required to read their Bibles and apply what is in it.

If I were to find fault with Sunday Church it is this. The pastor gives a sermon on a subject such as forgiveness. The people listen and leave saying what a great sermon you gave today pastor.

Then next week the parish is taught on walking in the spirit. (Granted that most do not even consider such a teaching) They all leave and go home feeling pink and squishy.

The next week another great teaching. What happens? Nothing. No one learned and applied the first teaching on forgiveness. It was forgotten by the middle of the week. So some go from topic to topic without applying anything.

A great many false teachings permeate the church and are radiated from the pulpit. Many have been taught simply believe and you shall get to Heaven. Many have been taught "It was that way back then, but today it is different" The ways of the world permeate the church. What used to be sin is now blessed. Is it any wonder that some converts believe that almost everything is permitted? But this is not to excuse them for everything.

The list is far too great to go into. So what do you get in the church? People professing to be Christians but without any knowledge or actual experience of how to walk in Christs footsteps. Is there any wonder that Christians fail to live up to Christ?

So don't blame the Christian for everything. They are also tempted. Most of the time it is his upbringing in the faith that fails him. And do not forget forgiveness for the one that fails. It is written "If you do not forgive, you shall not be forgiven". And we should understand that criticizing the pace of the Lords work in a man is not up to us as fellow believers. It is not for us to criticize our brothers failings from time to time. Rather it is for us to forgive and to help if only through prayer, for if we criticize then we have not forgiven. And if we point in judgment, then we ourselves are in danger of being judged for that very same thing.

The long and the short of it is this. we are not Christ. We are being conformed to the image of Christ. For some it takes longer than others, and who is it that goes through life without making mistakes?

If one believes that he is more mature than his brothers, then let him lead the way without criticizing but rather by strengthening his brother and helping him overcome his weakness.

Christians are full of fault. If that were not so they would not need Christ. Many have not even been taught that they must conform to the teachings of Christ. Many churches are a simply a wasteland filled with the living dead.

Just some thoughts on the matter.

I also understand that it is NO COINCIDENCE that his death just by pure dumb luck came during Passover, when blood was put over the doorway of Jews so that God would spare their first born. The blood that Christ shed and the blood put over the doorways was THE SAME. A lot of people miss that point and its meaning...

bob, i assume you're speaking figuratively, yes?

if memory serves... the book of exodus explains that god instructed jews to use the blood of an unblemished lamb to be spread on their doorposts.

(i never realized there was lamb clearasil back in the day. live and learn)

anyway...i'd be interested to hear you elaborate on that point further.

A lot of Christian failings come from the "leaders" of the church. .

uh...yes and no.


The problem with blaming Christianity for everything a christian or christians might do is that there is no umbrella accountability structure for bad behavior to be addressed as there was in the days of Acts.

Even then, Shaul (Paul) was dealing with the worst kinds of sins imaginable. Like the guy sleeping with his mother in I Corinthians 5:1, the church had not even addressed it until Paul

So few within the Body are challenged when they do something wrong, because it is as simple as just going across town to another church, or dropping out altogether to form your own version of religion.

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I point to the brilliance of the sun, and all is seen is my dirty fingernails.

It's not about Christians . . . it's about Christ's love, his sacrificial death to pay the wage of my sin, and His resurrection that leads me into eternal life.

Satan is whom causes us to look unto men, for he knows he loses one more, when we look upon God.

The problem with blaming Christianity for everything a christian or christians might do is that there is no umbrella accountability structure for bad behavior to be addressed as there was in the days of Acts

Now isn't that what I just said in so many words? Who is the head of this "umbrella" if not the pastors, teachers, and prophets in the church? From where does this accountability stem from if not from the leaders of the church under the authority of Christ?

So it seems as if we are in agreement.

I point to the brilliance of the sun, and all is seen is my dirty fingernails.

It's not about Christians . . . it's about Christ's love, his sacrificial death to pay the wage of my sin, and His resurrection that leads me into eternal life.

Satan is whom causes us to look unto men, for he knows he loses one more, when we look upon God.

The problem with blaming Christianity for everything a christian or christians might do is that there is no umbrella accountability structure for bad behavior to be addressed as there was in the days of Acts

Now isn't that what I just said in so many words? Who is the head of this "umbrella" if not the pastors, teachers, and prophets in the church? From where does this accountability stem from if not from the leaders of the church under the authority of Christ?

So it seems as if we are in agreement.

well again, yes, no, and sort of



There hasn't been "one" authority since the gentiles kicked the jews out. So what we have are self-proclaimed "leaders" whose authority is based on a greek model, as opposed to the hebraic one handed down by the Apostles.


So whenever one church tries to correct a member, that person or persons can just go across town and join another church...or start their own and claim to be "the" church.







.

There hasn't been "one" authority since the gentiles kicked the jews out.

Huh??? We must live in parallel worlds.

this talk about Christ has me confused.. I am not an expert like some of you when it comes to explaining "Christ" so don't beat up on me if I sound un-educated about the phenomenon known as Christ.. but has Christ come? the Jews believe Christ is yet to come? was the man known as Jesus then a true Christ? or deliverer of the good news or will he come when the Jews say he has arrived here on earth?

this talk about Christ has me confused.. I am not an expert like some of you when it comes to explaining "Christ" so don't beat up on me if I sound un-educated about the phenomenon known as Christ.. but has Christ come? the Jews believe Christ is yet to come? was the man known as Jesus then a true Christ? or deliverer of the good news or will he come when the Jews say he has arrived here on earth?

dane, jews believe in christ's existance here on earth. and that he was persecuted and died on the cross. jews believe christ had some good ideas (if not all that original). however jews do not believe that christ is the son of god or the saviour. jews are still waiting on the mesiah (but do not believe it to be jesus)

There hasn't been "one" authority since the gentiles kicked the jews out.

Huh??? We must live in parallel worlds.

It's more likely you have never heard the entire history of the church in your church, but yea, there was a rift in the early church and the so-called "Church Fathers" were endorsing and/or enforcing anti-semitic rants against Jews, even in the church.


Only about 95% of them though, if that's any solace.

Unfortunately they planted seeds that continued growing; as Catholics and Protestants have centuries of anti-semitic history.

We can see the split had already begun in the Book of Romans, where Paul spends the first few chapters explaining to Jews that they aren't saved by their lineage and then straightening out the gentiles in chapters 9 thru 11, even warning them in verse 11:20-21 that they could be cut-off themselves for mistreatment of UNBELIEVING Jews.

It's a sad history, well documented but not discussed. The Spanish Inquisition also began as a way of purging the Church of Jews..and then just got out-of-control.