General Music Chat

Now that everyone is calmed down I would like to say unfortunately racism is a fact of life. As a White/Cherokee/Irish/German American living in the south I have experienced racism against Me! It is unpleasant but hey life is unpleasant! We have become a society of pussies. I believe it is time for ALL Americans to take responsibility for our lives and put on our big boy pants! Just sayin!

-Yod
You are a man of God - what about turn the other cheek ; the meek shall inherit the earth ? Thou shall not kill ? This is your religion ?
The kid made a mistake and died but that doesnt absolve GZ for his role in this tragedy. He is no hero. He is no saint.
We argued this before and I ended up quitting the site for awhile - in my heart I know racism is alive and well - and I most def believe the kids race played a role in his death.
Preach peace Bro ; be the bigger man ; the better man - what good are you if you dont rise above ?
The kid didnt know better he just acted impulsively you can be better than that.
.02$

First of all I never said Z was hero or saint. This is a tragic situation but convicting someone for protecting themselves from an assailant would make it much, much worse. You have the right to be wrong (thinking this has anything to do with race) but the facts say otherwise. You believe it was racism only because that is what the Dept of Propoganda and Dept of "justice" told you it was. They lied to you, bro.

"Thou shall not murder" would be the right interpretation, btw.

Anyone who watched the trial and heard the testimony of witnesses (including T's girlfriend) knows that Z had every reason to fear for his life when T

1. assaulted him
2. broke his nose
3. banged his head into concrete pavement until Z could slide away
4. was suffocating him, trying to silence his screams for help

Dude...if that happens to you, then I also support your right to prevent being murdered or manslaughtered. We simply don't know that T would have stopped short of killing Z, so it's entirely T's responsibility since he started the fight and continued it's escalation.

I'll be happy to answer any objections to my views, but I ask only one thing of you; Why doesn't one's right to defend themselves matter?


Because the one who died in this case was black and the person who lived was brown? That seems to be the only reason why people are upset, actually. To make any kind of preference based on race is the very definition of racism!

If someone is upset because they believe that reversing the race would have made a difference in how the justice system treated them, then let's address our justice system, instead of railroading someone trying to protect themselves from a violent assailant.

It's not Z's fault that we have crooked judges and politicians. How would hanging him high (though he acted completely within the law) fix that problem?

Yes, we have deep racial problems in this country that should be addressed, but making this particular case and George Z a sacrificial lamb to satisfy the blood-lust of racists is not the solution.

it would be different if those protesting were informed about the facts and had a justifiable reason to make Z a scapegoat....but they don't.


But my entire problem with this particular situation is this:


The facts have been manipulated BY OUR GOVERNMENT and several large media conglomerates to create a false narrative, knowing it would cause intense racial tension.

They have intentionally decieved people into thinking they have been victimized, knowing it would cause violent uprising.

I've seen this several times in world history from dictators as they rose to power through division. They convince a group of people that they are being victimized by a different group of people who don't support the dictator.

Once they convince a mob they are victims, it's easy to turn those people into perpetrators of a bloody agenda.


I sincerely believe that is what's going on here. While everyone is watching the bouncing ball (trial, protests, etc) we are not looking at who threw the ball in the first place.

This is much more dangerous than it even appears to be already. WE are all in danger by the manipulation of the truth here. Someone is trying to force race riots to happen.

Think about that. How much murder will it cause if these lies are allowed to continue fostering hatred and racial anger?


Nope...all I want is the truth. Anyone who violently assaults another person has to accept that it might not turn out well for them.





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I won't comment on the trial other than to say that trying murder is difficult and doesn't always go according to plan. I think the jurors did their best and what they thought was just.

As to the racial response to the death of Trayvon? A little perspective is in order. The vultures are circling now and trying to make a buck off the young mans death. It took a lot of guts for this guy to say what he says but he gets it about right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXFi0l--NPI

“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.

Who would have thought that two guys from Idaho would be the only ones here to see it clearly?

When did that happen?


you guys keep repeating the lie, swallowed from media reports but unconnected to reality, that Z followed him. He didn't. You would know that if you watched the trial instead of listening to NBC (who was caught editing the audio tapes to make this racial)

He was asked for an address by the dispatcher because the cops were already in the complex. When he was looking for the street address where T was last seen, T jumps out of the bushes to assault him.

Though the judge didn't allow it into evidence, I've heard that a slim jim (burglury tool) was found in those bushes later. Can't confirm that yet.

Z never "picked a fight". That's another tragic lie being passed as incontrovertable.

if some guy started harassing me because he didn't like the way I looked or walked down a street at night, I'd have done the same thing Martin did:

And you alone would be responsible for the outcome if you initiate a violent assault. If you attack someone and they fear for their life and shoot you, no matter what race they or you are, then it's no one's fault but your own and you got what you brought on yourself.



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Our system is not perfect and mistakes happen, but for the most part it works pretty well. Sure juries make mistakes (OJ and Casey Anthony?). But this jury heard all the details, we didn't, so any editorials that anyone makes on that process are irrelevant.

Who would have thought that two guys from Idaho would be the only ones here to see it clearly?

When did that happen?


you guys keep repeating the lie, swallowed from media reports but unconnected to reality, that Z followed him. He didn't. You would know that if you watched the trial instead of listening to NBC (who was caught editing the audio tapes to make this racial)

He was asked for an address by the dispatcher because the cops were already in the complex. When he was looking for the street address where T was last seen, T jumps out of the bushes to assault him.

Though the judge didn't allow it into evidence, I've heard that a slim jim (burglury tool) was found in those bushes later. Can't confirm that yet.

Z never "picked a fight". That's another tragic lie being passed as incontrovertable.

if some guy started harassing me because he didn't like the way I looked or walked down a street at night, I'd have done the same thing Martin did:

And you alone would be responsible for the outcome if you initiate a violent assault. If you attack someone and they fear for their life and shoot you, no matter what race they or you are, then it's no one's fault but your own and you got what you brought on yourself.



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Well I found the 911 tapes online, and listen to any and all of them I could find shortly after it went down, so... so much for NBC or any other mainstream org. tainting me.
Nice try though.

Here are videos of the witnesses and the trial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJUGK3dmdQg

"IF" you watch them, you'll notice that everything you've been saying is false.

The next step is Z suing NBC for editing the 911 tapes to make it sound like it was racist when it was not.

Check out how much it was edited here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/eri ... -nbc-news/



Then add this to the mix: The Dept of Justice supported financially and logistically a known race-baiter (Al Sharpton) who has twice been caught fraudulently stirring up race wars.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/10/doj-p ... z2Yg3Xc39w

SOMEONE IS LYING TO YOU! I don't know exactly why yet, but it can't be for good.

If the truth really matters to you....seek it.




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I meant after the incident went down, not after the trial went down.
Found most of the recordings on YouTube days after it became a big story.

HOWEVER, I will check those links out.
I'm not like most of you here, who can not learn and reassess their "truths".

Because the one who died in this case was black and the person who lived was brown? That seems to be the only reason why people are upset, actually.

Not true.

Many people are not upset about the races at play here, myself included.

I'm looking at this through the lens of (a) a citizen who thinks I deserve the freedom to walk wherever I choose at night without being accosted and (b) a father who feels his children shouldn't be assaulted by overzealous neighborhood watch people.

You talk about Zimmerman's right to "defend" himself, but you're ignoring the fact that Zimmerman initiated the chain of events that lead to Martin's death. Zimmerman was the person who intentionally went looking for trouble. Zimmerman was the person who intentionally disobeyed an order from a police dispatcher. And Zimmerman - not Martin - is the guy who had possession of the gun.

The fact remains clear: at several points in time Zimmerman could have made a different choice and Martin would be alive. Zimmerman could have not gone looking for trouble. Zimmerman could have left his gun at home. Zimmerman could have followed police instructions and kept his distance and not engaged Martin.

Zimmerman, not Martin, made those choices. Zimmerman is the person who needs to be held accountable for his decisions and actions.

When did we, as a nation and a people, decide that accountability was no longer something that was important to us?

What disappointed me yesterday was reading about how juror B37 said that Zimmerman was only guilty of "bad judgment".

Uh, no kidding? That's how things like theft, rape and murder happen. Because people made bad decisions. We convict criminals of their bad decisions that lead to horrible actions. But when we send someone to jail, we're sending them to jail as much for their bad decision as for the action that resulted from it. This is why we have lesser chargers for various types of murder - because the decision making process behind a murder actually matters. Someone who premeditates a murder has a much different thought process than someone who accidentally shoots another human being during a hunting accident, for instance.

Manslaughter would be an appropriate punishment for Zimmerman. It's disappointing that a jury did not see is as clearly.

Unfortunately Mr. Martin was just as guilty of bad judgement! It was bad judgement on both parts and that is usually what gets a physical confrontation started. In this case one man was watching out for his neighbors when he was following TM. The folks that are mad over the outcome of this trial want to take away YOUR right to defend yourself that way they can take your stuff when they want no need for the gubment to take it and give it to them. They'll just take it directly!

If you want to prevent this in the future.... Ted Nugent has it right again.

"Teach your children not to attack people."


http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/15/ted-n ... ck-people/

Yod
I appreciate you not jumping down my throat - thanks
I do agree that GZ had every right to defend himself and it does no good for any " side " if he is wrongly convicted.
" There is no winner in this game ... "
- Tom

An example of the mindset we are dealing with here, the other day I was listening to conservative talk radio when a black gentleman and I use that term loosely called in. He said we have got to do away with all these racist laws. He continued to say that black men like to smoke they weed and that they keep control of they woman if they get out of control they slap them around some? My point is this is exceptable in their culture. Back in the 80's I managed an apartment complex and by the 5th of every month a lot of the mailboxes were pried open. I caught one guy breaking into the mailbox and asked him what he was doing? He replied I'm gettin my check! Turns out he had moved and wasn't responsible enough to change his address and felt it was his right to vandalize our mailboxes to get his check! These people are sheep and the ones that civil rights activist like Al Sharpton mobilize during these protest. In a pervious post I put up a YouTube video of them shutting down a freeway here in Houston. This freeway crosses thru a ghetto area but is a main route to the medical center. Turns out a mother was rushin her daughter to the hospital and got caught in the traffic jam she rolled down her window to tell them she had a medical emergency with her 5 year old daughter at which time the protesters started beating her!

Because the one who died in this case was black and the person who lived was brown? That seems to be the only reason why people are upset, actually.

Not true.

Many people are not upset about the races at play here, myself included.

I'm looking at this through the lens of (a) a citizen who thinks I deserve the freedom to walk wherever I choose at night without being accosted and (b) a father who feels his children shouldn't be assaulted by overzealous neighborhood watch people.

Zimmerman was the person who intentionally disobeyed an order from a police dispatcher. And Zimmerman - not Martin - is the guy who had possession of the gun.

I just love Monday morning quarterbacks. How do you take the police dispatchers words " We don't need you to do that." (from the call transcripts) and twist them into: Zimmerman was the person who intentionally disobeyed an order from a police dispatcher. It was not a police order. It was not even a suggestion, it was simply a comment. A big difference in terms and a very creative interpretation that reveals personal bias.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sp ... index.html

What we know:
Trayvon had a right to walk the public streets on a dark rainy night. He had a right to wear a hood. He had a right to ignore Zimmerman when questioned. He did not have a right to be on private property. He did not have a right to bash Zimmermans head on the concrete, and he did not have a right to break his nose unless it was an act of self defense. We do not know and nobody but Zimmerman knows if Trayvon's actions were escalating violence or acts of self defense. We will never know.

Zimmerman had a right to follow a suspicious character seen on private property in his own neighborhood. He had a permit and right to wear a gun in the state of FL. He had a right to ask Trayvon questions. He did not have a right to detain Trayvon, to assault Trayvon, or to shoot Trayvon unless it was an act of self defense. Only Zimmerman knows if it actually was an act of self defense and we will never know for sure.

The jury and most legal analysts agree that the prosecution's case did not prove murder 2 or manslaughter beyond a reasonable doubt. Some decisions we do not agree with but we live in a nation under rule of law and not lynch mobs. Zimmerman was arrested and brought to stand trial for his alleged crimes, the case was tried , by all accounts Zimmerman received a fair trial, and a verdict was rendered. It is not a perfect system but it is the best we have.

So where is the outrage, protests and rioting for all the other 100s of black men who were in situations where a similar series of poor decisions were made and they were shot and killed by other black men. Do those men have less value than Trayvon? Who will stand up for their rights? Why is this case so different? This is a soul searching moment for most of us. The only significant difference I see here is intense media frenzy and manipulation designed to glue us to the tube/radio/web page, so they can sell more soap, deodorant, fast food etc.