General Music Chat

The "Greatness" of Ivo Papasov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptvvf3_bS3k

And this, my friends, is precisely the explanation to descibe why the world will never ever have the privilege of seeing another Beatles, Dylan, Clapton, Zappa, Crosby Stills Nash & Young, etc... or any other 'real' musical artist.

I think that eventually it will be the reason why we DO see the next "Beatles" (or whatever) because it will open the doors to connect artists with listeners worldwide, instead of just nationwide. It's all still in a state of flux but will soon be mastered by someone.

And that "new beatles" may not be something you particularly like because new music is always about a new generation. If you (older folks) like it, the younger generations will hate it for no other reason.

But to the point at hand, any business you go into requires an investment of manufacturing and then marketing.

It's stupid to make a recording if you have no marketing plan. You might not benefit financially on the first try, but producing great songs will certainly pay off faster if it is part of a larger promotional plan that includes video on YouTube.

The need for bands with great music to also get quality video production is just reality, bro.

The only choice is to either play, get out of the game, or complain because those who play the game well are winning.

That doesn't replace the need for great music being the foundation, but I don't understand the resistance to making a video?

Have you been to one of his concerts? His roadies really suck.

The "Greatness" of Ivo Papasov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptvvf3_bS3k

No Doubt , a skillfull athlete here, tearing it up...A regualr woodwind shredder. Fastest runner in a foot race leading to nowhere. But Admittedly, full of amusement for the on lookers, (who feverishly search the you -tube videos at night hoping to find this one... ) Ask them if they'd be willing to pay for the download.

So Vinny, If i didn't know better, I'd say you are selectively throwing your version of what's good for me...at me...

Back at ya...Except, in this case (Link below), it is greatness. All your shiney distracting ramblings of shreddings and festive chicken hawkings cant touch this. . If you aren't moved, then you are a fkn zombie. (Or you are afflicted with..well you know.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmBMls_Sxas

I think youtube has made our musical world bigger and smaller at the same time.
But if there is an artist truly as great as say this woman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbL9vr4Q2LU somewhere round the world surely we would've heard of her by now.
YT is not new anymore. But yeah you can find everything and anything on it. I do like the fact that the musical world past and present is available to me now.

So Vinny, If i didn't know better, I'd say you are selectively throwing your version of what's good for me...at me...

Since you probably don't know any better, I will clarify the point and explain that most of those selections were chosen to illustrate how poorly informed are the dismissive appraisals you offer out of the overflowing of your delusional grandeur.

Ustad Bismillah Khan demonstrated his greatness by elevating the status of the shenai to the realm of Hindi classical music by the greatness of his playing.

S. Balachander is a giant of Indian music .. but he never hung out with the mop-tops so you never heard of him.

Regardless of your's, or mine, opinion, these artists are revered as "Greatness" by the cultures that produced them.

I do not expect any of this would satisfy what you seek as "Greatness" for you. That is fine! Your opinion of "Greatness" does not satisfy me either.

It is natural enough to not know much about another culture's music if you have no interest in it. But to assume that you know anything about greatness in those cultural contexts that you are ignorant of, is simply very arrogant.

PaperDog wrote:
Quote from Vinny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uFbjq_kE4I

PaperDog wrote: No different than any other open mic jam. But Its fun to engage. Nice way to blow steam.

Oh yeah right i;ll bet they jam down with masinqo and electric krar every monday night in El Paso ... none of the open mic jams you posted had anything like or that could even begin to compare



Quote from Vinny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz8pfex3kjM

PaperDog wrote: Jazz meets Raja... Totally Undermines the soul of Indian music
but it s nice listen to. BTW, This will work very well at Starbucks in about 10 years. The only mountains it will move are sacks of coffee.

Your ignorance of Indian music is displayed plainly with that comment.
You clearly know nothing of the "soul" of Indian music much less Carnatic music much less of the nadaswaram. He is playing classical music on the saxophone with all the subtleties and gamakas.

Quote from Vinny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0RJTmbNf2Y

PaperDog wrote: Festive , Fun, Aurally, visually... But that guy sure was being a control freak when he was trying to get me to say "Hey"...Gawd how bossy!

He must have known that you could not find the beat without some guidance. Fela's impact on West African music easily fulfills your so called "universal definition" of "Greatness"

Quote from Vinny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsqlrWTmvtU

PaperDog wrote: Nice! And expose of indonesian Percussion, replete with mystical dance...Dare I say it, it is the support behind a peaceful martial art.
Mark should have been in on this...and also Marlon Brando.



Quote from Vinny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1IK81UhYm8

PaperDog wrote: The African version of three chord progression, with that zany surf reverb
Made me want to go dance crazy for a moment... But , I'd lose control if that happened.
"Don't worry go for it, that's why you are wearing 'Depends'

Quote from Vinny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3oaWBYBOpU

PaperDog wrote: zzzz...Derick Trucks does this much better.... Just saying (and I'm not kidding...He has been studying such scales)
zzzzzzzzzzz

Quote from Vinny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ9Nr6wWJ4E

PaperDog wrote: Lovely. Kinda looks like dancing with the stars, with Chuck Berry and a young version of Ella Fitzgerald doing the rhumba. But they do capture the heart of that mantra chorus quite well.

Los Munequitos de Matanzas is one of Cuba's greatest rumba bands.


Quote from Vinny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUGMeC2zsxY

PaperDog wrote: Frommage avec du Twist. French Saxophone ..the perfect intonation of language, spoken through the nose. Beyond that it comes off as another open mic jam.
The history of brass instruments in Ethiopian pop music is a very interesting one.

In conclusion, Vinny is a closet Dancer... Laughing

In case you might not have been aware of it, music and dancing have a lot in common with each other. In some cultures they are also related to the martial arts. I'm actually not that shy about dancing, I often do so without thinking about it while playing musical instruments.

Your point about variety, diversity is well taken... All chock full of joy and amusement..but musically they lack one simple element..."Greatness" . I guess were all waiting on you ...


The smugness of the delusional grandeur that informs your comments seems to fuel your eagerness to display a knowledge of music from other cultures that is about equal to one molecule of graphene in depth. We can easily sum it up ... Dunning-Kruger Effect

Since you probably don't know any better, I will clarify the point and explain that most of those selections were chosen to illustrate how poorly informed are the dismissive appraisals you offer out of the overflowing of your delusional grandeur.

Delusional Grandeur? Me? I'm not the one armchair quarter-backing foreign Soul-Train, circus acts. (But you sure are)

Ustad Bismillah Khan demonstrated his greatness by elevating the status of the shenai to the realm of Hindi classical music by the greatness of his playing.
S. Balachander is a giant of Indian music .. but he never hung out with the mop-tops so you never heard of him.

A giant is he..? <cough>. Maybe he appears that way to you because he's boorishly staged his instrument to show everybody how big his instrument is.
Sorry Vinny, He's simply not relevant in the bigger picture. (Except to you, and we know you live vicariously through his boorish big instrument)

Regardless of your's, or mine, opinion, these artists are revered as "Greatness" by the cultures that produced them.

Yeah, how's that third world culture of yours working out for you.? I'm sure they've written the book on 'greatness'. BTW, you just contradicted your own stance on the meaning of 'greatness'.
Are you trying to pass these off as greatness because 'you ' say so, or because 'their culture' says so. What's it gonna be, Vinny? One thing is for sure, you are stanchly defending the kazoo gallery.

I do not expect any of this would satisfy what you seek as "Greatness" for you. That is fine! Your opinion of "Greatness" does not satisfy me either.

And..you expected correctly.

It is natural enough to not know much about another culture's music if you have no interest in it. But to assume that you know anything about greatness in those cultural contexts that you are ignorant of, is simply very arrogant.[/b]

Arrogant? I know some folks from New Dehli, who would disagree with your assertions about S. Balachander. They state it very humbly" "We like those cute white guys from England and Ravi too"
You cant call them arrogant, but they might call you pedantic. I call YOU arrogant , because you actually believe that your insight to other cultural arts makes you somehow... 'better' than us 'ignorant' hicks"

Oh yeah right i;ll bet they jam down with masinqo and electric krar every monday night in El Paso ... none of the open mic jams you posted had anything like or that could even begin to compare

Again, your ignorance is only out done... by more of your ignorance. Are you aware that in El Paso, we used to host a staunch track team at our University. That team is typically comprised of kenyan/ Nigerian exchange students. Well Guess what Vinny, many of them are quite talented in the arts, including music. Many years ago, while you were leaking turds in some rubber room at a memphis hospital (or wherever you would have us believe you are from), i was 'jammin' it up with these guys at a local dive. We'd bring our cheap guitars and go to town with some African folk music. One of my best friends was on that team, (Jologi, a Kenyan, who went by the name of 'Festus') We wrote tunes together, we drank together, and we had lots of fun... Know what he told me... He said he loved Elvis and Lynard Skynard. SO screw you Vinny, youre the arrogant one here.

Your ignorance of Indian music is displayed plainly with that comment.
You clearly know nothing of the "soul" of Indian music much less Carnatic music much less of the nadaswaram. He is playing classical music on the saxophone with all the subtleties and gamakas.[/b]

Like you said 'It is natural enough to not know much about another culture's music if you have no interest in it'.. I have only recently taken an interest in Indian Music.
I also know for a fact, that real teachers of that discipline, do not ostracize their potential students...ever...Nor do they diminish those who have yet to learn. Coincidently, That's the true essence of Indian Culture Vinny..(and its Something you fail miserably in catching on to, because of YOUR arrogance).

He must have known that you could not find the beat without some guidance. Fela's impact on West African music easily fulfills your so called "universal definition" of "Greatness"

You arent even making any sense here, Vinny. Are you suggesting that Fela really isn't that great?

"Don't worry go for it, that's why you are wearing 'Depends'

Bwahahahah! Now you've done it...I've pooped my pants!

The smugness of the delusional grandeur that informs your comments seems to fuel your eagerness to display a knowledge of music from other cultures that is about equal to one molecule of graphene in depth. We can easily sum it up ... Dunning-Kruger Effect[/i]

You do realize that your entire statement here is so far south, grammatically, that it can see the front of North.
"The smugness of the delusional grandeur that informs your comments..."
This sounds like a really bad Danielle Steele Novel. Vinny , are you aware that smugness (the subject) cannot inform a comment, either passively or otherwise
"seems to fuel your eagerness to display a knowledge of music from other cultures that is about equal to one molecule of graphene "
Indeed...It is one more molecule, than you possess.

Jazz meets Raja... Totally Undermines the soul of Indian music
but it s nice listen to. BTW, This will work very well at Starbucks in about 10 years. The only mountains it will move are sacks of coffee.

Vinny said: Your ignorance of Indian music is displayed plainly with that comment.
You clearly know nothing of the "soul" of Indian music much less Carnatic music much less of the nadaswaram. He is playing classical music on the saxophone with all the subtleties and gamakas.[/b]

Like you said 'It is natural enough to not know much about another culture's music if you have no interest in it'.. I have only recently taken an interest in Indian Music.
I also know for a fact, that real teachers of that discipline, do not ostracize their potential students...ever...Nor do they diminish those who have yet to learn. Coincidently, That's the true essence of Indian Culture Vinny..(and its Something you fail miserably in catching on to, because of YOUR arrogance).

I am not a teacher of that discipline.

You "oh humble student" have already asserted yourself as being qualified to judge the merits of Dr. Kadri Gopalnath who has mastered the art of Carnatic music as well as the technique of the saxophone.

Jazz meets Raja... Totally Undermines the soul of Indian music
but it s nice listen to. BTW, This will work very well at Starbucks in about 10 years. The only mountains it will move are sacks of coffee.

Dr. Kadri Gopalnath
Gopalnath had to make certain modifications to the conventional alto saxophone to play Carnatic music. So successful has this adaptation been that the great musician Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer, the doyen of Carnatic music, has acknowledged Kadri Gopalnath as a true Carnatic music genius.

Awards, titles and tributes

Titles and honors have come his way, the most cherished being the Asthana Vidwan of Sri Kanchi Kamakoti Pettam, Sri Sringeri Sharadha Peetam, Sri Ahobila Mutt and Sri Pillayapatti Temple. He was awarded the Padma Shri in 2004.

Gopalnath has the distinction of being the first Carnatic musician to be invited in the BBC Promenade concert in 1994, in the Royal Albert Hall at London. The Asian Music Circuit, U.K, sponsored his recital.

Among his other distinctions are: Saxophone Charkravarthy, Saxophone Samrat, Ganakala Shree, Nadapasana Brahma, Sunada Prakashika, Nada Kalarathna, Nada Kalanidhi, Sangeetha Vadya Rathna, Karnataka Kalashree in 1996, Vocational Excellency Award from the Rotary of Madras, Tamil Nadu State Award "Kalaimamani" and Karnataka Rajyotsava Award in 1998.

He received an honorary doctorate from Bangalore University in 2004.

The 2008 album Blue Rhizome by the New Quartet features a tribute to the saxophonist called "Gopalnath" (composed by Karl E. H. Seigfried).

Totally Undermines the soul of Indian music

I am not a teacher of that discipline.

I believe you

You "oh humble student" have already asserted yourself as being qualified to judge the merits of Dr. Kadri Gopalnath who has mastered the art of Carnatic music as well as the technique of the saxophone.

I am very qualified Vinny...and so is everyone else that indulges him when he performs his work. Its called an audience. Audiences are typically known to bear a collective consensus. They are usually correct. Out of respect, they wont crucify the hard working , but not quite mountain-moving artists. As a consolation, those guys are usually handed 'honorary degrees' for staying with the game. (It's how your daddy Al Gore got his Nobel)

Since you obviously don't know sh*t about America blues Music, allow me to educate you on a parallel.. The soul of Blues Music comes from guys like Robert Johnson... ('Crossroads' exemplifies this) , yet you see derivatives all over the map, surrounding that piece.

Your PhD there, can be likened to that of an agent of derivatives. If you know anything at all about music (let alone Indian music), then you know there is nothing new under the sun. And that applies no differently for your 3rd world heroes, than it does for Western artists.

Now, before you get all huffy and puffy at my comments, i'm conceding that the Doctor is a significant force (in musical science). But no matter, I don't see any 'greatness'. His work does not compel me to elevate my standing with respect to improvements in soul, heart and mind.

I gave you a link to Max Richter... In My opinion, he runs circles around your PhD, with respect to movement, influence, relevance.

You can disagree all you want. Your opinion in this respect means absolutely nothing to me. All you have managed to do is throw a series of links at me, which depict circus acts and open mics...Its Rubbish to me.

Oh yeah right i;ll bet they jam down with masinqo and electric krar every monday night in El Paso ... none of the open mic jams you posted had anything like or that could even begin to compare

Again, your ignorance is only out done... by more of your ignorance. Are you aware that in El Paso, we used to host a staunch track team at our University. That team is typically comprised of kenyan/ Nigerian exchange students. Well Guess what Vinny, many of them are quite talented in the arts, including music. Many years ago, while you were leaking turds in some rubber room at a memphis hospital (or wherever you would have us believe you are from), i was 'jammin' it up with these guys at a local dive. We'd bring our cheap guitars and go to town with some African folk music. One of my best friends was on that team, (Jologi, a Kenyan, who went by the name of 'Festus') We wrote tunes together, we drank together, and we had lots of fun... Know what he told me... He said he loved Elvis and Lynard Skynard. SO screw you Vinny, youre the arrogant one here.

I've played in various bands and jams over the years with Ghanians, Nigerians, Congolese, Kenyans, Ugandans, Ethiopians, Cameroonians, and Senegalese. Some felt that Barbra Streisand was the greatest of all, some were big fans of Eric Clapton.

Overall most seemed to be very open minded and enthusiastic about all kinds of music. You are not telling me anything new about the musical tastes of Africans, and that was not my point.

So were your friends playing electric krar, masinqo and washint and dancing to traditional rhythms? If you complain about not having any sitar teachers around El Paso, why would you expect me to believe your open mic jams sound like a party in Addis Ababa?

I am not a teacher of that discipline.

I believe you

You "oh humble student" have already asserted yourself as being qualified to judge the merits of Dr. Kadri Gopalnath who has mastered the art of Carnatic music as well as the technique of the saxophone.

I am very qualified Vinny...and so is everyone else that indulges him when he performs his work. Its called an audience. Audiences are typically known to bear a collective consensus. They are usually correct. Out of respect, they wont crucify the hard working , but not quite mountain-moving artists. As a consolation, those guys are usually handed 'honorary degrees' for staying with the game. (It's how your daddy Al Gore got his Nobel)

Since you obviously don't know sh*t about America blues Music, allow me to educate you on a parallel.. The soul of Blues Music comes from guys like Robert Johnson... ('Crossroads' exemplifies this) , yet you see derivatives all over the map, surrounding that piece.

Your PhD there, can be likened to that of an agent of derivatives. If you know anything at all about music (let alone Indian music), then you know there is nothing new under the sun. And that applies no differently for your 3rd world heroes, than it does for Western artists.

Now, before you get all huffy and puffy at my comments, i'm conceding that the Doctor is a significant force (in musical science). But no matter, I don't see any 'greatness'. His work does not compel me to elevate my standing with respect to improvements in soul, heart and mind.

I gave you a link to Max Richter... In My opinion, he runs circles around your PhD, with respect to movement, influence, relevance.

You can disagree all you want. Your opinion in this respect means absolutely nothing to me. All you have managed to do is throw a series of links at me, which depict circus acts and open mics...Its Rubbish to me.

Robert Johnson was ok .. Clapton was the one who started everyone copying Crossroads. I prefer Johnson's "derivative" Elmore James.

I always like this Johnson more than Robert http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-4jTbrLtUk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MdI2xPHw_k and I enjoy his "derivative" Ry Cooder very much.

Charlie Patton was great and I love his "derivative" Howlin' Wolf even more so.

Of course "derivative" sometimes suffers from dilution and pollution etc. producing an inferior "derivative" as you have amply demonstrated elsewhere. on the other hand one could end up with a Jimi Hendrix.

Your attempted argument regarding Gopalnath, whose artistic accomplishments in the Carnatic tradition rival those of Hendrix within Blues/rock, completely fails to make a credible case. Did Hendrix "undermine the soul" of blues rock?

Actually a much better parallel to Gopalnath would be Coleman Hawkins and the effect of his sax style to jazz, but you probably would not know enough about him to understand why.

I am not a teacher of that discipline.

I believe you

You "oh humble student" have already asserted yourself as being qualified to judge the merits of Dr. Kadri Gopalnath who has mastered the art of Carnatic music as well as the technique of the saxophone.

I am very qualified Vinny...and so is everyone else that indulges him when he performs his work. Its called an audience. Audiences are typically known to bear a collective consensus. They are usually correct. Out of respect, they wont crucify the hard working , but not quite mountain-moving artists. As a consolation, those guys are usually handed 'honorary degrees' for staying with the game. (It's how your daddy Al Gore got his Nobel)

Since you obviously don't know sh*t about America blues Music, allow me to educate you on a parallel.. The soul of Blues Music comes from guys like Robert Johnson... ('Crossroads' exemplifies this) , yet you see derivatives all over the map, surrounding that piece.

Your PhD there, can be likened to that of an agent of derivatives. If you know anything at all about music (let alone Indian music), then you know there is nothing new under the sun. And that applies no differently for your 3rd world heroes, than it does for Western artists.

Now, before you get all huffy and puffy at my comments, i'm conceding that the Doctor is a significant force (in musical science). But no matter, I don't see any 'greatness'. His work does not compel me to elevate my standing with respect to improvements in soul, heart and mind.

I gave you a link to Max Richter... In My opinion, he runs circles around your PhD, with respect to movement, influence, relevance.

You can disagree all you want. Your opinion in this respect means absolutely nothing to me. All you have managed to do is throw a series of links at me, which depict circus acts and open mics...Its Rubbish to me.

Robert Johnson was ok .. Clapton was the one who started everyone copying Crossroads. I prefer Johnson's "derivative" Elmore James.

I always like this Johnson more than Robert http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-4jTbrLtUk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MdI2xPHw_k and I enjoy his "derivative" Ry Cooder very much.

Charlie Patton was great and I love his "derivative" Howlin' Wolf even more so.

Of course "derivative" sometimes suffers from dilution and pollution etc. producing an inferior "derivative" as you have amply demonstrated elsewhere. on the other hand one could end up with a Jimi Hendrix.

Your attempted argument regarding Gopalnath, whose artistic accomplishments in the Carnatic tradition rival those of Hendrix within Blues/rock, completely fails to make a credible case. Did Hendrix "undermine the soul" of blues rock?

Vinny, we can go round and round all day. We can continue to cast meaningless insults at each other... Truthfully, I'd rather be staring at my garden. Carry on Vinny, you to yours, me to mine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw0imBDdBd8

You'll probably get something good out of it, however, I'm sure it costs quite a bit with that group. I haven't read all the responses, but, I do know that most of the bands or artists listed on there are using someone else's money to fund their music video from that company.

I just finished up a music video myself and I think it looks pretty dope. Don't gotta spend thousands to get a good product.

Barbara Streisand?