General Music Chat

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/o ... 90610.html]http://www.politico.com/story/...ers-aides-90610.html

They don't want the financial burden they strapped US with. Imagine that. R's and D's working together to screw the american people, as usual. When will you all finally wake up and realize they are the same party?

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/obamacare-exemption-lawmakers-aides-90610.html]http://www.politico.com/story/...ers-aides-90610.html

They don't want the financial burden they strapped US with. Imagine that. R's and D's working together to screw the american people, as usual. When will you all finally wake up and realize they are the same party?

The page was moved or removed...

The funny thing is I see your POV is changing Kramer. Better later than never.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/obamacare-exemption-lawmakers-aides-90610.html]http://www.politico.com/story/...ers-aides-90610.html

They don't want the financial burden they strapped US with. Imagine that. R's and D's working together to screw the american people, as usual. When will you all finally wake up and realize they are the same party?

That's a hell of a lot of reading on your post.It's obvious that we are gonna pay the tab,I think that Obama is just trying to make it more available.If you have ever been without insurance and tried to get it,but you have a pre-excisting condition,forget about it.I also think He is just trying to make it more affordable based on your income.You make 7 or 8 dollars an hr in today's world that don't happen.The insurance companies and the medical community are so deep in bed that a citizen don't stand a chance.I don't give a sh*t what fund it depleats,it's just a slush as is all funds allocated to a government program.For what it's worth.

Joe

Not having insurance is so dreadful eh? My youngest brother died of AIDs - dirty needle. Cost us about a quarter million in care - no insurance - but the people of this country paid his bills. In America, hospitals are not allowed to turn away people with no means.

Now they want us to pay for illegal immigrants as well. Emergency rooms are closing all over America! We are broke damn it! And the govt pigs want to weasel out of it. Sure they do. They've already exempted a number of their union buddies because as this post demonstrates - the whole concept sucks!

Ooohhh the bastards say - "I never dreamed I'd have to use ObamaCare." That's right pigs - suck it up. You wanted it and you got it.

And get this - companies that are paying 15k a year for employee insurance can pay a 3k "penalty" and just blow it off. Thanks dems and repubs - you pack of scoundrels.

I just want to know the name of the live boy or dead girl Obama's minions caught that creep Chief Justice Roberts with, to get him to pretend that such a thing is constitutional! I've read the doc - it ain't. My cat knows it ain't. Any body that reads it knows it is not.

Except for the simpering, cowardly piece of sh*t hanging around the court masquerading as a judge.

Talbot

It used to be you could go to the doc or he would come to you... for 5 bucks.

It used to be you could go to ER for 15 bucks.

It used to be we didn't sue doctors, just because they had money. At one point in time we were grateful for medical talent.

I guess that has all changed.

You all better just stay healthy. Remember... The SCOTUS has ruled this is not about HEALTH CARE... THIS IS A TAX!

WHether its Obama Care or WhatEver Care AMerica has missed th eentire point, 90 degrees off course...

A man drops to the ground with a pulminary embalism, heart stops and he's stone cold dead for 10 seconds until the CPR kicks in. After surgery and a 10 day stay at Hotel Scalpel ,he recieves a bill for 150k. (he sees this and has another heart attack).

Once could argue that his life is worth an infinate number of dollars... But If you think about it, even Food doesn't cost that much, considering we cant live without it.

We don't need insurance reform nearly as much as we need Manged Care reform. Essentially, get rid of hospital administrators. and let the doctors decide how they want to dispense and charge for medicine. That's called free enterprise system, where the market is decided and resolved by the consumers of those services.


An MRI typically gets billed out at @4-6K per patient/per appt, depnding on which hospital or clinic you have it done at.
Hypothetically,The techs bill at 35.00/hr... the fixed and variable costs of machine and facility are spread over time/over multiple patients , so maybe the real cost for having an MRI done on one person, adds up to about 600.00 essential cost. The remainder, is used to pay superfluous staff, specilized training, research (over billed, over valued) and recovery of cost from un insured patients, (who get services for free). Then there are the dozens of executive level doctors and admins, who haven't touched a scalpel in years.

The whole thing is sickening.

BTW, you are not required to sign on any statemnt the hospitals throw at you. You are protected by law...they must provde basic medical care. They can bill you... Give your addresss, keep it fair....but sign NOTHING. You do not have to agree to their financial terms.

To add to that- you pay premiums. Hefty ones. But you can't even use the damn insurance until you pay a toll. The toll depends on the need. The greater the need, of course, the greater the toll.

If you go to a family owned, non-corporate pharmacy and buy your drugs without using your insurance, you will likely spend less out of pocket than you do when using the insurance, not even counting the money you already paid to have the insurance! This is true of every prescription we use in my household. Insurance = worthless.

ER? With insurance $400 co-pay. Admitted to hospital? $400-$1000 per day to stay, depending on the nature of the visit. Tests? Get out your wallet. Need surgery? Get permission from insurance co FIRST, then $300-$3000 co-pay. Oh yeah, all that is AFTER the $6000 annual deductible. So .. you think you can get off with just paying $10k + monthly premiums out of pocket?? Think again!! There's annual limits to the amount of benefits you can get..

So that $150k surgery you need.. well the insurance co. will only kick in a max benefit of $20k, and 10k of that comes out of your pocket, and another $4k through your premiums. They don't even pay out what you pay in !!!! It's a scam of EPIC PROPORTIONS. You get to take out a medical loan for the rest, or you can choose to "REFUSE" the surgery (notice their wording, not 'declined' or 'can't afford' !!)

Glenny- I was NEVER for obamacare. I spoke against it from the very beginning. There is no coming over to 'your side'.. Until you realize were all amercians, on the same side (more like on our knees), you won't every really understand that there is no conservative or liberal, only 'the people' and 'the masters'. Hint: nobody here is a master.

here's a new link-

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04 ... obamacare/

it tells both sides of the story, not bad. I agree with it's conclusion at the end.

Government has separated itself and every one that works for government. The new agenda has become protect your government job. Life time pensions, pay scales far above economic conditions and skill levels. This is just the start of a class difference that starts with... BECAUSE IT IS THE LAW.

We have allowed our government to become more important than the AUTHORITY THAT THE POWERS ARE DERIVED FROM.

We the People!

Gotta disagree glen- But not in spirit

I see government workers as insanely greedy and self-serving, not to live off the public teet for life and mooch benefits, but to claw their way to the highest position of power they can personally achieve, and then exploit it by selling that power to corporate entities, not only for monetary personal gains, but also against future employment at any one of many corporations. It's a twisted method of spreading risk vs. reward.

For instance, the person who drafted the majority of obamacare was employed in both government offices and corporate insurance (healthcare of course) positions over the last decade- I forget her name, but her current cushy corporate job is a direct result of her efforts to sell out the entire public sector and guarantee them billions, if not trillians, in future profits.

The FDA is so damn corrupt the only way to fix that problem would be to fire every last one of them, right down to the buildings janitors. Burn every file, and destroy the computer systems and all backups, and rebuild from the ground up.

Same could be said for the CIA, FBI, NSA, DOD, DHS, NIH, EPA, DOT, DOE, and just about every other government body.

Their existance has purpose as it should, the problem isn't the nature of the department, it's that they've all been infiltrated from the top down by traitors. The infiltration is so complete that no "good american" can infiltrate and survive the vetting and testing processes or gain any level of footing before being identified and routed out. Those who are appointed that have good intentions are cock-blocked on every level and eventually blamed for all wrongs or forced to quit. Whitman's departure from the EPA was a textbook example of that.

The easy fix to all of it is simply getting corporations out of government. The hard part is how. The only real way to do it is to change the entire system when it comes to government employment, and radically change the SCOTUS by making them elected positions with term limits. Same should probably be true for all chief positions in each of those departments.

You disagree with me... You sound more like me than I do. You just had more energy to go into some details. I say some details because you could spend the rest of your life trying to write down a tiny bit of the bull coming out. You and I don't have the time.
In example. SEER... Seasonal Energy Efficiency Rating. The penalties against a contractor or manufacturer are ENORMOUS if they are not explained to the consumer. Hence all new equipment has labels all over the place. Government gone wild.

As far as crony capitalism... It is out right theft of FREEDOM from every American.

Probably the only thing in your post I would question is the appointment to scotus. Sorry I am just not in a rush to make major changes to the constitution. The system is pretty clever and there are reasons for it. We just have to stop people bending the rules... I.E. Healthcare reform is not a national insurance... It is a TAX,and that is legal. Social security was sold to the American people in the same way.

I could go on and on , but it is good to see that in truth, we disagree about very few things.

I think where I disagreed was that I don't see government as the problem. I see the people who hijacked it as the problem. A lot of people still think of it being an "us vs. them" scenario regarding government (as an institution).

I do believe we need a new (stronger) bill of rights. Especially a new right that guarantees that congress cannot subvert those rights by way of acts like the patriot act, or the prez by signing statements. My main focus on why the constitution needs to be re-written is based solely on the fact that most of the existing constitution has been subverted to the point that it no longer can protect itself from traitorous bodies who twist and bend it to their will. A new one could be written in current language, and provide itself with better defenses against meddling.

Hell, I'd even agree to keep the 2nd amendment and strengthen it to pro-gun owners standards, if the rest of the amendments achieved the same respect (and protections) accordingly.

oh.. and the timing couldn't have been better- look what just fell outta the sky-

http://www.alternet.org/justice-sandra- ... t-decision

oh.. and the timing couldn't have been better- look what just fell outta the sky-

http://www.alternet.org/justice-sandra- ... t-decision

I voted for Gore, yes I was a dumbacrat back then! I am glad to say he lost. In hindsite after 9/11 I think the right man one that election. Had he lost we would have Carbon Tax, we would have given rights to the terrorist with knowledge of Bin Ladens where abouts and probably would not have caught up with him. A lot of the negatives that happened under Bush would have happened anyway!

nobody could say haley-

My issue is that what the scotus did- From the article:

the five conservative justices held, in the words of Harvard’s Larry Tribe, that “equal protection of the laws required giving no protection of the laws to the thousands of still uncounted ballots.”

I'd like to think that I would have shared the same level of discontent had Gore won in the same manner. No sense looking back at what gore would've or wouldn't have done different, you know my opinion- he would have done as his corporate masters bid, just like all the others.