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#207874 by PaperDog
Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:48 am
jw123 wrote:The aritst wasnt happy, the studio started over on what was done, in the end it seemed all were happy, so whats the beef at this point?

Capt you got a big ole chip on your shoulder dont you?

As long as the studio didnt charge extra to fix it, then what is the issue?

Are you happy with the end result? Im not talking about what the guy did when you werent there, Im talking about the end result the artist liked? Was it ok?

If its fixed, then its fixed, time to walk away


Phil Spector Did this once, to John Lennon... In return, ever after in the studio, Lennon would often hand Spector's ass back to Spector... (There are video accounts of this on you tube.. circa 70's 'Gimme some Truth", " Oh Yoko"

#207879 by PaperDog
Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:09 am
Scotty Im with you on this...

We are both 'song-writers' and we know...those who arent song writers, don't know...what it means to lay down the work, only to have some jack-ass come in behind it and trample all over it...

They might as well just take a first born child and beat it with a shovel, as to desecrate a track.

Folks, here's the thing about messing with an artists song, especially where you aren't given the right to take artistic license on a work...
People, who mess with a song, can maybe, in a touch of brilliance or depravity, change one single note, or beat. As far as the song artist is concerned, that's major assault & battery. (Whether you actually agree or not).

Don't believe me? Take your infant child to the park and let some skanky stranger walk up and harshly 'flick' your kid's ear-lobe... If you have/had kids, you'll understand why an ambulance ensues thereafter...and that you and the kid will be the ones strolling back home, in time for dinner.

It doesnt matter what you think about our songs. It matters what we think about our songs...even if yo think they are bad enough to correct... My Point is that we song-writers are like Saks fifth avenue bitches, when it comes to our songs... (And I'm not ashamed to admit it... albeit , i'm agreeable enough with other artists that they think I'm a whore, too ..LOL!) ...
The key here..is that a manager, producer, engineer...whoever, whatever, should make an attempt to obtain trust form the artist, before assaulting the artist's baby.

That clearly wasnt the case here? I dunno

#207912 by jw123
Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:42 pm
Im sorry Capt I still dont get the issue if the artist and Im assuming thats the one that paid for this dabacle was happy then whats the beef?

They didnt let you finish a couple of tracks and went ahead and mixed it? But then came back and redid the mix?

When you write up something like this maybe you should learn to write in normal speak, so others can imterpret what the issue is.

A few months ago you blasted another member her, for basically the same thing, now your back with the same beef again, maybe you need to look in the mirror and realize that the problem is you and not all the people your surround yourself with.

Ive done pro and non pro sessions since I was 19 years old, meaning i have paid to have my own stuff recorded, Ive been paid to play on others peoples things, contribute riffs, and done freebies to friends who just happened to want some different guitars on things, and never met anyone that seems to have the tantrums you seem to have with others, artistic vision? too much caffiene? no nicotine?

I know this is a open forum, and its a place to spill the beans, but if the person you are spilling the beans on is coming and reading things then you are indeed very unprofessional.

I would take a whole different approach to something like this, to me if they fixed the issue you have then whats the beef, if they didnt then take it up with them, but in the end whoever paid for the recording, is the one that judges the work.

Capt Ive had my guitar tracks replaced, my best friend laced some of my songs with more reverb than a karaoke machine, Ive been butchered all over the place, had guitars and vocals sliced and diced, but I never got into any confrontations about it all, if you cant get along with someone then move on to the next situation, but if you keep burning all your bridges you will eventually run out of places to go.

Im not trying to be negative to you in anyway, just saying what I think of what you have presented.

#207917 by Kramerguy
Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:36 pm
Johny7-

I think what Scott is eluding to is that studios are more and more often treating artists like cattle, rather than like artists. They want us to do all the pre-studio leg work, provide scratch tracks so that their job is easier (they load in the scratch tracks, build the click tracks on them), they want us to record ALL instrumentation at the same time, and finalize it before the mixing and mastering, so if you want to change a part or re-track something, now it's a pain in their ass and they let you know that you are inconveniencing them. They do that on purpose to minimize the tracking process and shove you out the door as quickly as possible. They now want to do the mixing and mastering "overnight", basically when you aren't around, so they don't have to listen to your input.

So what you end up with is a mastered track where you the artist aren't happy with the instrumentation, and the mixing sounds wrong. more than 50% of people out there will blame themselves for not having a good enough vision or song, and the studio will be HAPPY to help you assert that blame onto yourself. the rest of the artists will be pissed that they figured out that they didn't assert themselves enough.

And the you have the artists like Scotty (and me to a point) who will DEMAND that things be done to our satisfaction. Many studios charge per track, so they couldn't give a flying F how good it is, they prefer speed over quality. They don't honestly believe anyone is going to create a hit record out of their studio anyways, so they see nothing to lose.

#207919 by GuitarMikeB
Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:42 pm
I think it comes down to:
Whoever is paying for everything gets to call the shots. If you're a 'gun for hire', you do what they ask, or they find someone else.
If you're paying (or your friend the singer is), then you call the shots, and walk away with your cash if they don't want to do it your way.

However, if you hire a studio/crew, listening to their advice regarding things that are in their realm of expertise is advised - maybe, just maybe they will get something right and it will improve your work. Just like coming here and asking for opinions/advice on tunes.

It's also advisable to not post your frustrations in a place that the others can (and will) read. As many people have found out on Facebook, complaining or bragging about work stuff.

#207922 by jimmydanger
Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:51 pm
Where the f*ck are you people recording? Seriously, I have been recording 25+ years, I've produced (i.e. wrote the check) over 125 songs, and I've never encountered any of the crap you guys are talking about. I've never recorded in a per-track studio, always by the hour, so I can't comment on that. As long as it's on my dime I say what happens and when it's done, including all aspects of tracking, mixing and mastering. I'm a control freak, and accept the accolades when things turn out right and the criticism when they don't.

#207926 by Cajundaddy
Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:01 pm
jw123 wrote:Im sorry Capt I still dont get the issue if the artist and Im assuming thats the one that paid for this dabacle was happy then whats the beef?

They didnt let you finish a couple of tracks and went ahead and mixed it? But then came back and redid the mix?

When you write up something like this maybe you should learn to write in normal speak, so others can imterpret what the issue is.

A few months ago you blasted another member her, for basically the same thing, now your back with the same beef again, maybe you need to look in the mirror and realize that the problem is you and not all the people your surround yourself with.

Ive done pro and non pro sessions since I was 19 years old, meaning i have paid to have my own stuff recorded, Ive been paid to play on others peoples things, contribute riffs, and done freebies to friends who just happened to want some different guitars on things, and never met anyone that seems to have the tantrums you seem to have with others, artistic vision? too much caffiene? no nicotine?

I know this is a open forum, and its a place to spill the beans, but if the person you are spilling the beans on is coming and reading things then you are indeed very unprofessional.

I would take a whole different approach to something like this, to me if they fixed the issue you have then whats the beef, if they didnt then take it up with them, but in the end whoever paid for the recording, is the one that judges the work.

Capt Ive had my guitar tracks replaced, my best friend laced some of my songs with more reverb than a karaoke machine, Ive been butchered all over the place, had guitars and vocals sliced and diced, but I never got into any confrontations about it all, if you cant get along with someone then move on to the next situation, but if you keep burning all your bridges you will eventually run out of places to go.

Im not trying to be negative to you in anyway, just saying what I think of what you have presented.


+1 exactly. If you don't get along with one particular engineer/producer, it might be them. If you don't get along with any, it's you.

Kramer,
If the studios you guys work out of are not responsive to your needs, you are using the wrong studio. Choose a different one who "gets it". The good ones around here charge by the hour and the will spend as long as it takes til you are completely satisfied. That is how they make their living and feed their kids. What we may be talking about here is a cheapie demo studio that charges a fixed (way too low) rate to record songs quickly and people come in thinking they are recording "Dark Side of the Moon" for $500. Not gonna happen. Choose a cookie cutter package, get a cookie cutter result.

A friend just had his album release party last night. It was recorded in a pro setting with all pro session players and lots of attention to detail. It turned out pretty good:
http://www.amazon.com/Grey-Other-Colors/dp/B00BJEV7DU

#207935 by Starfish Scott
Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:45 pm
JW don't sweat it.

Yeah I am getting the idea that I didn't fill in the blanks very well but that's partially because I was talking about it in an attempt to obscure the who's and What's of this. (I can see now that didn't work at all. HA I'm over it already. Truth hurts.)

I'm sorry I didn't give you the complete bean spillage, but that was really all I was ready to dole out to whoever and whatever is reading this rant of mine.

So really all I was doing was writing parts and making sure that she recorded them adequately. The whole issue for me was the feeling that they took what I had done (the majority of) and ran with it, producing something not on par. Secondly they didn't ask HER what she wanted, they just pulled the trigger and did what they will because they are so "knowledgeable". (that's sarcasm, smelly belly)

Having said that, the end product was crud. Sorry, that's a fact.
If I give you ROAST BEEF, I expect to hear ROAST BEEF at the conclusion.
That's not what it was. Have you ever heard the cliche', "too many cooks spoil the broth"? That's what I allege happened. I suppose that if they had come with something reasonable, I would have been a little sad but I would have shut my trap just for simple diplomacy reasons, but it sucked.
If I worked on it and I don't like it, whomever finished it didn't do it justice. Like Paperdog said, "do not flick the ear of my current child".

Just so you know, the artist wasn't happy with the initial product. (I think I said that) And yet she didn't want to "make any waves" until she came outside to smoke a cigarette as well. I think she's nuts for being so demure about something that is obviously a big part of her but to each their own.

I had to go in and actually winge about this to the head honcho.
I tried to be diplomatic but hard heads only understand harder words, evidently.

Again I am not the best person to relate current events or stories because I do see things differently and I make no apologies for this, it is who I am and I don't mind at all. I just don't wish to confuse anyone and sometimes in the "heat of battle" as it were, I tend to gloss over details that others may or may not find to be important and relevant. So be it.

As for a few months ago? No, similar but not the same.
I believe now that was an issue of not having the same vision of what was being produced (uh-oh lol). We were working on something I thought sounded like Pink Floyd and would have taken a layered vocal rather well or so I was thinking. Les was thinking that it was more of a straight up light rock song (Americana-esque) with little to no vocal layering.
We talked about it, he was responsible for the mixing and mastering.
Regardless of what happened, that tune came out like a melted candy bar on the dash of my truck. Even if I blew up in a moment of pique,(wounded pride, yep that's the ticket), his responsibilities were to play keys, program percussion and most importantly to mix/master. No matter how you slice it, that was poorly mixed and mastered. And that hurt in a way you won't probably understand because even though I said I was but lukewarm about that tune "Come and Gone", I reaaaaallllly thought it had something special about it. Even now I am hesitant to admit how much I thought of that tune.

When you write something you really think is interesting on a level you don't often visit and it gets screwed up, it's like watching the tsunami from the beach. (You say a little prayer as the water cascades over you and you pray your tune's death is painless.)

These guys basically took a work in progress, deduced that it was more or less done and then did whatever they wanted to it. They aren't paying for the time, the client is. Like I eluded to originally, if they had come with something wonderful or even passable, I would have just looked in and said nothing because I don't call the shots.

Fact is that what they put together was substandard. (I should have kept a copy of that, it would have been an eye opener.)

Yeah I vent here, JW and I don't mind who reads it. I try to obscure things intentionally to mislead fact seekers a little but I expect people involved with anything related to do the job to the best of their ability without hesitation.

If I was retained to play guitar for someone's project and I did less than my best, do you think that's ok? I don't think that's acceptable under any circumstance. And I don't even want to think what someone who is paying directly or indirectly thinks about that. It's shameful.

I reiterate, I didn't play on any of this last piece, I simply had to help write it and if you think that's easy, you'd be mistaken. Writing for your own is easy, writing for others is difficult or at least it is for me and writing something for someone else that is decent and/or good is akin to giving birth. (f**k hurts like hell, especially when it's done and leaving you forever. You want it to be all that it can be without exception.)

I think it would have been easier to take if i had sung and played all over it and then had it's guts sliced and diced because it easier to admit one's own limitations.

When you get something 90% done and it's good to you, (because you are your own worst critic) and it turns into something not up to standards you impose upon yourself, you feel punished for not "watching the baby".

I do no deny that I am volatile. I do not deny that I want my own course for what I work on. I do not deny I wish to complete that which I endeavor to attempt. I do not deny that I detest surprises and above all I do not deny that I wish to be kept in the proverbial loop, regardless.

And I don't deny that I am relatively uncaring whether or not you understand ultimately.

There are some that bring in 3 chords to the studio and wish you to "fill in the blanks" and make something from nothing.

And then there are those that plan extensively, eat, sleep and dream about it until they imagine that they have a well thought out course of action to facilitate ease of production once in the recording environment, so things can go as smoothly as possible.

I envision myself as a planner and I detest those that fly by the seat of their pants.

Do I have difficulty with every engineer/studio manager et cetera?
Don't be morose. I'd write a more caustic retort, but I'm thinking that this is the internet and you only know what I show you.

Thanks one and all for whatever, it does make me feel better to vent and I do appreciate any and all remarks. I don't necessarily agree with everything said, but I enjoy reading everything regardless.

I'll take this moment to apologize to most everyone I have given a hard time to, I have a tendency to be very critical. I can't honestly say I am going to change my behavior(s) but that's part of what makes me who or what I am. You know I say what I think and that's not always popular, but you know what ever I say is what I honestly thought, at least at the time.

"Mean what you say, say what you mean".

#207942 by jw123
Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:17 pm
Capt Im in your corner whether you see that or not.

You often mention Im a diplomat, and on that line of thought, Ive found at this point in life that being diplomatic allows me to get the most out of all most anything Im involved with. And believe you me, I used to be the most hard headed SOB you ever met when it came to music. Just a couple of years ago, I basically had a sound man in tears at one of our gigs, cause he kept fugen with the monitor mix. Guitar there one minute gone the next, vocals dissappearing. SO I can be probably way more in someones face than anyone here would ever realize, but I think that by being diplomatic for the most part, the people I deal with give me huge credibilty when I do blow a fuse on someone. Cause its just way out of my basic character at this point in my life.

For me being the way I am has served me well in all aspects of my life, and there are a lot of sides to my life.

Good Luck man, didnt mean to pee in the cheerios. And I do think that for the most part I do say what I mean, and mean what I say.

#207943 by Kramerguy
Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:19 pm
Thejohnny7band wrote:Kramer,
If the studios you guys work out of are not responsive to your needs, you are using the wrong studio. Choose a different one who "gets it". The good ones around here charge by the hour and the will spend as long as it takes til you are completely satisfied. That is how they make their living and feed their kids. What we may be talking about here is a cheapie demo studio that charges a fixed (way too low) rate to record songs quickly and people come in thinking they are recording "Dark Side of the Moon" for $500. Not gonna happen. Choose a cookie cutter package, get a cookie cutter result.

A friend just had his album release party last night. It was recorded in a pro setting with all pro session players and lots of attention to detail. It turned out pretty good:
http://www.amazon.com/Grey-Other-Colors/dp/B00BJEV7DU


I will try to check out the link later.

I want to revisit this- What I've wrote is most certainly about my bad experiences in the studio. Not all my experiences are bad, so you are getting one side of my take on things.

I too have done extensive work in studios, from doing coverband demos, to being a hired gun for original work, to being an original artist cutting my own demos. There's a strong reason I have no music posted on my profile, as my last attempt to record original music turned into a fiasco, and in the end, I wasn't just disappointed in the final product, I was utterly disgusted with it.

Most of my ranting is based on that last experience, as the type of studio (one big enough to have management) that Scotty referenced reminded me the most of that experience. I will not name the producer or studio simply because this is an international studio that has a solid reputation and I'm not going to get into the slander game and legalities involved with it.

I will say this much-
These "pro" studio guys work with breaking bands, and some successful ones as well. They book out entire months at a time to do albums. They don't make huge or quick profits off these deals because of the amount of time involved and that they generally don't charge by the hour for these types of projects, they charge flat rates. Hourly rates are something I've seen mostly in local and regional studios that have no major artists recording there. The deal I had with this particular studio involved a flat rate for an EP.

The problem I found was that for an unknown like myself, who was more or less recording there, they see me as a wannabe, and as a cash cow. They don't make any investment in the music itself, other than the sales pitch on how much they love what I'm doing. They are looking for a quick and easy recording session to fill that 2-3 blank spot in their schedule. Not that they would tell me that. The amount of money they make has a much higher profit margin in those few days than a multi-week recording contract for a national act. They know they are going to take a fly-by-night approach and deliver something that is "not their best", and they honestly don't care. Why would they? When an album or EP fails, it always comes back to the artist, no matter how much you spin it otherwise.

Unfortunately for me, I was not doing this alone- I was in an arrangement with other artists who didn't have any experience or comprehension of the difference between radio quality and garbage. Pretty much, anything that isn't radio quality is garbage, unless you never plan to release it or are making demos/scratch tracks. But expect that demo would never see airplay.

Anyways... I had a few issues with the instrumentation, with the mixing and with the editing. The producer would play to the more ignorant artists, talk down the concerns, and ultimately sold them on what was inferior work. The producer would do the editing, mixing, and ultimately the mastering with us not there, always saying he worked better late nights alone.. I rarely listen back to those mastered tracks simply because all I hear is

Instrument mistake in song 1 at 2:09.15
Dissonance in song 2 at 0:53.12
Mixing issue, background vocals, song 3 at 1:32.73
etc..

Except there was a LOT more. Tones were off, EQ was not acceptable in some songs, stereo separation issues, headroom issues.. it all stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

All but 3 issues would have been acceptable or at least understandable if this was a local $35/hour studio. But it wasn't. Just because my mates were too weak in the ear to hear these blinding issues doesn't mean they don't exist. ANY professional producer should normally be embarrassed to release such an abortion, but you would be shocked at how many actual professionals do this to unknown artists.

In the end, I had my name removed from the copyright. I was ultimately embarrassed to be associated with the final product. Few months later, the rest of the artists involved all agreed, it sucked. Too bad none of them could hear it on the pre-mastering at the time.

#207947 by Cajundaddy
Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:22 pm
Kramerguy wrote:
Thejohnny7band wrote:Kramer,
If the studios you guys work out of are not responsive to your needs, you are using the wrong studio. Choose a different one who "gets it". The good ones around here charge by the hour and the will spend as long as it takes til you are completely satisfied. That is how they make their living and feed their kids. What we may be talking about here is a cheapie demo studio that charges a fixed (way too low) rate to record songs quickly and people come in thinking they are recording "Dark Side of the Moon" for $500. Not gonna happen. Choose a cookie cutter package, get a cookie cutter result.

A friend just had his album release party last night. It was recorded in a pro setting with all pro session players and lots of attention to detail. It turned out pretty good:
http://www.amazon.com/Grey-Other-Colors/dp/B00BJEV7DU


I will try to check out the link later.

I want to revisit this- What I've wrote is most certainly about my bad experiences in the studio. Not all my experiences are bad, so you are getting one side of my take on things.

I too have done extensive work in studios, from doing coverband demos, to being a hired gun for original work, to being an original artist cutting my own demos. There's a strong reason I have no music posted on my profile, as my last attempt to record original music turned into a fiasco, and in the end, I wasn't just disappointed in the final product, I was utterly disgusted with it.

Most of my ranting is based on that last experience, as the type of studio (one big enough to have management) that Scotty referenced reminded me the most of that experience. I will not name the producer or studio simply because this is an international studio that has a solid reputation and I'm not going to get into the slander game and legalities involved with it.

I will say this much-
These "pro" studio guys work with breaking bands, and some successful ones as well. They book out entire months at a time to do albums. They don't make huge or quick profits off these deals because of the amount of time involved and that they generally don't charge by the hour for these types of projects, they charge flat rates. Hourly rates are something I've seen mostly in local and regional studios that have no major artists recording there. The deal I had with this particular studio involved a flat rate for an EP.

The problem I found was that for an unknown like myself, who was more or less recording there, they see me as a wannabe, and as a cash cow. They don't make any investment in the music itself, other than the sales pitch on how much they love what I'm doing. They are looking for a quick and easy recording session to fill that 2-3 blank spot in their schedule. Not that they would tell me that. The amount of money they make has a much higher profit margin in those few days than a multi-week recording contract for a national act. They know they are going to take a fly-by-night approach and deliver something that is "not their best", and they honestly don't care. Why would they? When an album or EP fails, it always comes back to the artist, no matter how much you spin it otherwise.

Unfortunately for me, I was not doing this alone- I was in an arrangement with other artists who didn't have any experience or comprehension of the difference between radio quality and garbage. Pretty much, anything that isn't radio quality is garbage, unless you never plan to release it or are making demos/scratch tracks. But expect that demo would never see airplay.

Anyways... I had a few issues with the instrumentation, with the mixing and with the editing. The producer would play to the more ignorant artists, talk down the concerns, and ultimately sold them on what was inferior work. The producer would do the editing, mixing, and ultimately the mastering with us not there, always saying he worked better late nights alone.. I rarely listen back to those mastered tracks simply because all I hear is

Instrument mistake in song 1 at 2:09.15
Dissonance in song 2 at 0:53.12
Mixing issue, background vocals, song 3 at 1:32.73
etc..

Except there was a LOT more. Tones were off, EQ was not acceptable in some songs, stereo separation issues, headroom issues.. it all stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

All but 3 issues would have been acceptable or at least understandable if this was a local $35/hour studio. But it wasn't. Just because my mates were too weak in the ear to hear these blinding issues doesn't mean they don't exist. ANY professional producer should normally be embarrassed to release such an abortion, but you would be shocked at how many actual professionals do this to unknown artists.

In the end, I had my name removed from the copyright. I was ultimately embarrassed to be associated with the final product. Few months later, the rest of the artists involved all agreed, it sucked. Too bad none of them could hear it on the pre-mastering at the time.


I think you just drove home my point Kramer. A studio that is unresponsive to your needs is the wrong studio. Take your WAV files and go elsewhere. It doesn't matter if it's a small-time 1 man show or has "Sony" painted on the building. They are there to provide a service in exchange for $$. If their service is lousy, take your $$ and move on.

Listening critically, making careful notes about needed edits, and providing the mix engineer with a reference track so he knows what sound you are looking for needs to happen at the 1st rough mix, not after the final master. Recording 101. Any multitrack song can be remixed and remastered as many times as you feel it's necessary. Are you willing to shell out the cash to get what you want?

Final mix is always the most difficult part because everyone wants perfection and you can't have perfection. Sometimes it needs some fresh ears on a project to make it happen. Sometimes you just need to trust someone else's vision. I've never been 100% satisfied with anything I have ever recorded and have a hard time listening to my own stuff because of that. It is an imperfect process that depends on many people working together as a team.

Clapton didn't want to release "Unplugged" because "Who wants to listen to a bunch of acoustic guitar stuff?" It was his top selling album ever. He also hates listening to "Cream Crossroads" because he was stoned and having a musical disagreement with Baker about where "one" is during his solo. Iconic guitar solo. Sometimes the artist is simply wrong and missing the big picture. :)

#207958 by PaperDog
Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:24 pm
I dunno the more I read this thread, the more I'm realizing that any studio that[s not grade triple aaa (i.e the big label) is probably a crap shoot for the artist. (or at least more of one)

Historically, musicians have had to earn their place with a crew of engineers, who then will make the artist walk on water to the ears of the public. You can throw all the money you want at it, but at the end of the day, if you don't own the resources, you are subject to their mistakes and whims. If you do own the resources, then you are subject to your own whims and mistakes.

Its a lose lose situation..unless...one stops the micro-management of song production.

I have learned...it is much better to have a crew of imperfect players, who are growing, and love all aspects of what they are doing, than to have crew of tight-wired, anal retentive experts, who can never be satisfied. (The latter bores me to death)

Music production is a journey... When you micromanage it, you are killing the travelers...They will then get pissed at you and sh*t begins to head south...

The first rule of song-writing... You'll have to hand it over to Godmothers and Godfathers, if you want it to grow and become successful.

#207963 by GuitarMikeB
Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:10 pm
There are all sorts of independent small studios, just like finding a good bandmate, finding a studio right for you is tricky.
Subscribe to Tape Op magazine (its free) - they often do interviews with small studio guys, you get a better idea of what they do/specialize in.

#208029 by Starfish Scott
Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:34 pm
I don't know what to say. It brings a tear to my eye, ultimately.

I think you guys basically have it dialed in now.

If you don't get what you want in a studio, just quietly move on.
Music is no place for the timid. And people that aren't 1000% sure what they want in their current project are staring down the barrel of a loaded gun.

A studio that acts autonomously is dangerous.
If they produce something really good, it's a feeling that it's come by accident.
If they produce something really bad, it's blame they deserve.

If they don't want to consult the artist on major changes, it's a vision issue and that could take your project in the genre of X and make it sound like Y. And that itself can be a very frightening thing because the artist is now out of the loop and confusion sets in. It also creates fear in the back of your mind as in now you wonder if the next MAGNUM OPUS you attempt to create will be "repainted" in a different color than you had originally imagined. I am sure some would not mind, but to me, that's sacrilege.

I don't mind being unknown and poor as a church mouse, but don't you dare touch one little hair on the head of my creation(s) until I say ok and then I want to be part of the process. That way if we have a major change, everyone is on the same page from day 1.

Those of you that have been around for a while know I don't like working with the female voice. I just never had a preference for it and definately not my forte'.

The female artist I was working with fought me initially and I felt like telling her she sucked, but I tried to gently to lead her in the right direction. Almost purely by trial and error, she realized I was working with her, not at her and that I was, in affect, in her corner. So about halfway through, she stopped fighting changes I proposed. Now I am not saying that she accepted every change I suggested, but she was more receptive and as a result, I think she gained more than if she had retained her original attitude.

For that studio dingdong to jump in and mess about in what we spent some serious time conjuring up was wrong. She's paying. Listen to the person writing the check, that's always the order of the day.

Conversely if she had some bigger balls, she could have saved me some lumps.

So as the story goes, I had another phone conversation last night.
I got the "you coming in tomorrow"? I told them that it was looking like a storm is brewing and I don't have 4x4 anymore. His boss gave me the "oh yeah, snow..." and a pause. Then he gives me the old, "well I just wanted to let you know that we're not angry and we'd like you to continue working with us".

(so here we are today and it's snowing like mad still @9:42est) lol

I told him that I found the situation to be restrictive. He asked me how.
I told him that I need a free hand to finish what I start. I never want someone else to finish what I start, unless I can be in the loop and hear what's going on because "one man's treasure is another man's trash".

He changes the subject and mentions that he thought I was going to lay tracks for my music on Friday last. I said calmly that I was going to but I would have have a grand mal fit if someone had touched them while I wasn't around to monitor what was going on. He laughed but didn't say anything. I told him that I only really was originally interested in this scenario because I thought they were in cahoots with ***. (I was mistaken) I told him that I enjoyed working with them for the short time I was around but I'm not used to the way you guys seem to do things at your studio.

Then things changed a little. He told me that I have the classical "artist's temperament". I laughed and asked how so. He claimed quite nonchalantly that I was quick to anger and seemed to know what and where the material was going before even the artist did. I told him that wasn't quite right but since I had spent 10 hours with it, I was basically the one with the best idea of where it should go and how it should get there. I mentioned that I don't mind collaboration with anyone since I am musical chameleon and that I augment what others are writing with ease, but again you have to keep me in the loop.

So then he busts out "So if you ever come off your high horse, make sure you come on down and grace us with your presence".

I laughed and told him "if you ever realize that the artist is the one you need to listen to, give me a call". He follows with the awful and deadly line, "does this mean you won't be utilizing our services for the compilation of your material". I almost choked right there and blurted out, "if I can't trust you to do the right thing when I work with another artist, attempting to get the best possible product, then why on earth and in heaven would I subject myself to possible humiliation at your hands in the most sensitive of situations, mainly my own material(s)".

He started to say something after that and I cut him off. I told him that I am working for an hourly wage, no benefits and it's an awful haul into the city on an empty road, let alone if there's traffic. And you even think it's ok for me to show up in a snow storm. I feel like you are unrealistic in your expectations and unclear in your assigned responsibilities.

At this time, I am going to take a break. If anything changes, I'll call you or you can call me but we have no contract and certainly nothing that would be binding, legally or otherwise.

Then he goes, "what are you, bucking for a raise"? My jaw just dropped and I felt even more confusion.

I told him that I had another call coming in that I had to take and told him I'd call him back.

(I'm glad I have a punching bag installed in the cellar because it's getting a lot of use.)

IF you write it and you know what it is, stand your ground.
If it's a well known producer like Alan Parsons, be receptive to change because the gent has a proven track record. Otherwise, all of them are just pissing in the wind and life hands out no towels.

Likewise you always do what the $ says. If the $ doesn't like it, it's either no good or you just might be in the wrong studio for what you are doing.
Either way a situation such as this requires much contemplation and discussion. Talk to your peers, talk to your family, talk to anyone that can intelligently discuss and debate what's going on with you. Then attempt to make an educated decision and stick to your guns.

I don't care who anyone thinks they are, don't ever piss in a cup and call it lemonade. Lemonade isn't warm, folks. Don't be fooled by pressure or badgering, bullies love these behaviors. (except when you use it on them)

Thanks for your ears, I feel lighter already.

#208033 by DainNobody
Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:54 pm
get your demo done on your home recorder or computer interface and when you have it where you can play it in your sleep then go here and pay the piper

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