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#206100 by PaperDog
Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:22 am
Chief Engineer Scott wrote:Does that mean I can shove old people to the ground and walk on them?

Is it "might makes right" time, because I can hang with that all day and all night long.

I've restrained myself for a long time. I don't take advantage of the weak.

Does this officially mean I can get away with this type of behavior?

I won't lie, I have a natural tendency to want to beat a bloody trail of tears throughout the land. (and I'd be good at it too)

I can honestly say that I wanted to throttle more than a few people in the last 6 months and none of them caught a beating.

Why is it that some people feel like it's ok to piss on all of the rest of us?

If I dropped the "let's all be civilized" mentality, I'd be one of the worst animals in the enclosure.

As it is, I felt like pulling out one individual's teeth with a pair of pliers, that I felt intentionally messed with what otherwise was good material(s).

And I don't agree that acting gruffly won't change anything.
I think the biggest teacher in the land is pain. The more pain you feel, the less inclined you will be to repeat whatever it is that you did.

If I had got up inside that woman's ass for shoving the nun, I can pretty much safely say that I sincerely doubt that witch would have done that ever again.


This amazing woman: Marina Abramovic is the undisputed heavyweight champion of articulting just how fkd up people can be. She is both the canvas and the mirror and the risks she has taken on her own safety, to get that point across are extraordinary. Check here out here and your question about human behavior will be answered ten fold.

Mike Nobody, you should check it out too.

#206120 by Planetguy
Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:58 pm
PaperDog wrote:

For example: Child labor ... It is vastly unacceptable in America to put children to hard labor.


discussion of child labor laws didn't really come in to play here until the early 1900's. so we have more history WITHOUT them than with.

Many efforts were made to pass a national child labor law. The U.S. Congress passed two laws, in 1918 and 1922, but the Supreme Court declared both unconstitutional. In 1924, Congress proposed a constitutional amendment prohibiting child labor, but the states did not ratify it. Then, in 1938, Congress passed the Fair Labor Standards Act. It fixed minimum ages of 16 for work during school hours, 14 for certain jobs after school, and 18 for dangerous work.

it's horrible that china (and other countries) exploit children but viewing "child labor laws" as an "american" thing any more than a "canadian" thing, or a "german" thing is just nationalistic false pride.


So, Who decided this for America? Most likely, a Chinese person and at least one none Chinese person. Thus, experienced folk, who, despite the diversity, could agree on a common value. , shown to benefit American society at large.


but check it out... even an issue (child labor laws) that you'd think SHOULD BE agreed upon couldn't be passed as a law until 1938?????

why? 'cos americans were greedy and put profits over children's welfare and well being???? yeah, you CAN view it that way...but another way (the way i choose to view it) of seeing it is that choosing profits first is sadly a HUMAN thing.....not just an american thing. that's what HUMANS (some...not all) do.



When you have a large collection of values, (regardless of origin) you can essentially define a culture by them. Its the same as saying , you can tell a tree by its fruit.


but that's just it, americans DO have a large collection of values. good and bad. all over the road. as you'll find in any other country. that's HUMAN traits...not merely american traits.



....When you see a young woman leave a note in an act of responsibility, you'd be hard pressed to let that go without feeling a little inspiration and pride.


pride? myself in glenny's shoes...if that happened to me here in MO, i'd feel very good and slightly hopeful for the human race. i'd place zero weight on the fact that it occurred in tebbetts.....that it happened in MO...or that it happened in the usa.

i'd feel that "wow...there ARE still decent folks around. there IS hope for humanity". i don't view her (or anyone's) act of doing the right thing as an "american thing".....because like every country, there are people here who stand up and do the right thing and those who don't.

If Glenny was a [insert a foreign national here> visitor, and received that note, he would likely say " These Americans aren't as bad as I thought."


then i would say he's awfully foolish, and naive at best to make a sweeping generalization about ALL americans based on the good deed of one person.



A human in his/her own homeland, is always on the vigil to confirm and verify any positive evidence of present culture. Upon discovering the positive evidence, one is inclined to cite his/her allegiance, love and ownership of that culture. And that's what Glenny did...


well, i too make judgements when i see folks do good, and when i see them do bad. i just don't attribute someone carrying groceries for their elderly neighbor or some d-bag raping an elderly lady as being "american" deeds. those same things happen all over the globe.

others will see it differently. but as americans.....uh, i mean HUMANS that's how we do. :wink:

#206122 by GuitarMikeB
Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:15 pm
Scott - use your anger and feelings and write a song about it.

#206123 by Planetguy
Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:17 pm
GuitarMikeB wrote:Scott - use your anger and feelings and write a song about it.


+1

#206125 by Planetguy
Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:20 pm
i can hear it now ( to the music of "the rooster" )

here comes the nun....pusher

#206265 by fisherman bob
Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:31 am
Scott, I'm not sure pain solves anything at this point. Pain perpetuates pain. Violence perpetuates violence. The cycle has to end/stop somewhere. It stops with ONE incident. YOU stopped it. Very difficult to do, I understand. YOUR SELF-CONTROL WAS ADMIRABLE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. If somehow, some way, the Earth could have just ONE day with not a single murder, why couldn't it go two, three, four or more untiil murder became a thing of the past. With the internet this could someday be a reality. If we're all connected somehow, we could stop violence. No more bullying. No more anger directed at another person. Only break inanimate objects. Do ANYTHING to NOT hurt anybody else ever again. Is it possible? Could it ever happen? I hope so...

#206266 by PaperDog
Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:37 am
fisherman bob wrote:Scott, I'm not sure pain solves anything at this point. Pain perpetuates pain. Violence perpetuates violence. The cycle has to end/stop somewhere. It stops with ONE incident. YOU stopped it. Very difficult to do, I understand. YOUR SELF-CONTROL WAS ADMIRABLE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. If somehow, some way, the Earth could have just ONE day with not a single murder, why couldn't it go two, three, four or more untiil murder became a thing of the past. With the internet this could someday be a reality. If we're all connected somehow, we could stop violence. No more bullying. No more anger directed at another person. Only break inanimate objects. Do ANYTHING to NOT hurt anybody else ever again. Is it possible? Could it ever happen? I hope so...


NIce Idea Bob, but unfortunately, human beings are prone to the most heinous acts of murder, deciet, etc etc... We pride ourselves as being 'on the top of the food chain...' I laugh at that, because people miss the point, which is, we're 'part of the food chain'. Sentient beings, of grace, spirit, wisdom, advanced thinking and other refined states wouldn't be part of 'any' food chain...
Get out of the food chain I say. Then, maybe we'd deserve to call ourselves civilized....

#206269 by fisherman bob
Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:08 am
Give peace a chance...it's a FAT chance...I'm not too sure there hasn't been ANY time in 2,000 years somebody wasn't at war with somebody.

#206273 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:59 pm
After reading through some of this... I just shared a nice story about another American. This was not to say in any way that there are not good people through out the whole world.
Some how that got twisted around to down play the value of some one that would have held the door open for a nun... Rather than shove her to the ground.
I MAKE NO APOLOGIES FOR RESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR!
I don't give a damn where you come from. Some of the behavior coming from "responsible politicians" voted in by rule of democracy... Is just as reprehensible as the nun shover. ( see how I just shifted the focus of this discussion... Mark taught me that) LOL.
I don't live in Botswannaville. I was talking about a responsible American.
That is all I was talking about. How did this get so twisted?
:lol:

#206287 by Starfish Scott
Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:27 pm
fisherman bob wrote:Scott, I'm not sure pain solves anything at this point. Pain perpetuates pain. Violence perpetuates violence. The cycle has to end/stop somewhere. It stops with ONE incident. YOU stopped it. Very difficult to do, I understand. YOUR SELF-CONTROL WAS ADMIRABLE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. If somehow, some way, the Earth could have just ONE day with not a single murder, why couldn't it go two, three, four or more until murder became a thing of the past. With the internet this could someday be a reality. If we're all connected somehow, we could stop violence. No more bullying. No more anger directed at another person. Only break inanimate objects. Do ANYTHING to NOT hurt anybody else ever again. Is it possible? Could it ever happen? I hope so...


I'll say it again, it wasn't self-control Bob. It was pure shock.

I was so shocked that someone would shove a nun with a walker, that I didn't do anything but make sure the nun didn't bite the dust on the concrete.

(And she still kinda sheet on me with that waive me away stuff and didn't say a word.)

I feel better today, but I am still looking at each and every person like a felon now.

If the world doesn't want broken bones, I suggest the world behave it self or suffer the consequences because it's all fun and games until it gets ugly. And if there's one level I am perfectly comfortable on, it's UGLY.

Trying to be a human takes a lot of effort that I am now unsure is necessary. Look how they screwed the Templar Order. They should have chopped a path through the new world as well.

Celebrate the humans and destroy the scourge.
Not everyone is worth helping, only those that are human on a holistic level.

#206292 by DainNobody
Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:57 pm
I can sit for hours here now and look at the beauty of a truly abstract post and come up with answers to fit my own particular slant on the world

#206294 by Starfish Scott
Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:13 pm
I think that everyone needs to come up with their own answers about how they view the world and how they will behave in it. (or not)

I always thought people to be basically good and I'm now reconsidering that after "getting an unobstructed view".

People are lying, untrustworthy, uncultured scum but exceptions do exist.

Too bad there isn't an easier way to recognize the good ones and to avoid the others.

#206295 by DainNobody
Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:19 pm
would the Templar Order be considered the good guys? if it's who I think they are, they were not necessarily decent to the Muslims in Jerusalem..

#206297 by Starfish Scott
Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:33 pm
Sad to say Dane even in the camp of the good guys, there are bad men.

Gotta keep your eyes open and your hand upon the hilt of your sword.

#206307 by DainNobody
Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:17 pm
Scott, at least we don't have crowds in the Arena watching lions devour humans.. that's a plus

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