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Thank you Neanderpaul Ill try; I am after all a falable human of great passion.
LIFE LIBERTY AND JUSTICE !!!! oops there it goes again lol

AND BY ALLTHE POWERS OF SATIN.

"Satan sheets to lie on...Satan beets to fry on..."


man, this is actually turning out kinda funny...
I think I'll stay tuned!

the TRUTH is BELIEVE OR BURN !

good heavens...
perverted Western version of the Gospel...
makes me shudder....

CP This pervert absolutly supports your right to believe as you see fit. (but I'm still gona pray for ya and for myself)

AND BY ALLTHE POWERS OF SATIN.

"Satan sheets to lie on...Satan beets to fry on..."


man, this is actually turning out kinda funny...
I think I'll stay tuned!

the TRUTH is BELIEVE OR BURN !

good heavens...
perverted Western version of the Gospel...
makes me shudder....

The truth is actually believe and obey or burn but you don't need jump all the way to that point in teaching. Starting from here is more likely to get people to listen.
1. Is the bible from God?
2. Am I responsible for following God?
3. After establishing those 2 ideas it is important to show people where in the bible to find answers to the questions they seek. Then let them read it and ask them to tell you what it means.

... Okay, yeah, I am sick of those statements. "Believe or Burn," I think I will take my chances and burn on that note. You people are extremists.

I am accusing NO-ONE of being a pervert, but rather, preaching a perverted version of the Cross.
You attract more folks with honey than with a sharp stick.

Remember my hellfire & brimstone spewing friend, Jesus HIMSELF reached out IN LOVE to those whom he sought to touch/heal.

Nowhere do I find the mandate to go forth, conquering the earth with frikin 15 lb KJV Thompson Chain Reference bibles thwacking folk over the heads, while telling them that God loves em...

I look at people of faith much in the way a dog looks at something it appears to not understand and turn its head slightly. Believing and having faith is one thing but preaching your *BELIEF* (HELLO, HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN WHAT THE WORD *BELIEF* MEANS!?) as if it is factual is hilarious to me. I'd like to see those of you who are so sure of your God go to the extreme that people of other beliefs are willing to go to in the name of their God. Would you sacrifice your life for your belief right now? So many people already do by living their life in servitude of a God they will truly never know beyond feelings and irrational occurances but here I stand, a 26 year-old man raised in the mindset of Southern Baptist hellfire and brimstone and I have to say it feels AMAZING to finally feel FREE of the mental confinements of Christianity and religion in general. It is ultimately irrational to push a belief on someone as if it is fact. Likewise, telling someone like me to "have faith" is no different than someone telling a person of faith to "suck it up" with an issue they have.

The God of Christianity leaves little to be desired: In the name of love, you're expected to live your life to serve "Him". IF you happen to do this successfully by the terms of The Bible, you will go heaven! Heaven is this magical place that is greater than that which you could ever BEGIN to imagine! You know, imagine for a second that you actually live your life for YOURSELF and you make your experience here on earth an experience of love, life, happiness, fulfillment, etc. What is the interest in this heaven and this happiness beyond life? Why do you need to serve a God that you only BELIEVE in and HOPE that you end up dying and finding yourself in this place that is supposedly everything you can't begin to imagine? lol... I just don't understand you people of faith who so blindly preach your personal "truth" as if it is indeed a by scientific law TRUTH. I don't criticize people of faith by any means. Believe what you believe and that's great! If you're right, then you're right but maybe 2% of people of Christianity have EVER come to me and preached out of genuine concern for my "soul". Ask yourself, are you just getting defensive and getting all high and mighty on someone or do you ACTUALLY GIVE A SH*T about someone's post-death status?

I could go on and on but let it be understood that the aforementioned is FAR from the full encompassment of my thoughts and feelings on religion, faith, Christianity, etc. With all of that being said...

...someone may have noted it earlier but it is the choice of the listener to couple the lyrical content of a song with the genre it is being delivered via. Music and lyrical content are not indicative of religious context. I mean, do you have to not be Christian to listen to heavy metal or enjoy playing that style of music on an instrument? Who do you see Dave Mustain thank in the booklet of Youthanasia? What about Chuck Billy inside of the booklet of Testament's album The Gathering? Ever wondered which faith Tom Araya of Slayer is? Try looking that one up!

I've always found it to be quite dubious that people consider a particular genre to be ONLY FOR a certain type of lyrical context, religious context or lack thereof. Many people of faith are still human and if they want to go out and get drunk and f*ck everything under the sun and whatever else but get all sappy and pro-God in their lyrics at times, so be it. Who are you to judge them? I'll go listen to the lyrics of a Satanist such as Casey Sabol (the new singer of Periphery) while on the next song, enjoy the lyrical content of a "Christian metal band" like Demon Hunter. I'll go listen to the Christian context of Protest the Hero's music and enjoy it just the same as someone equally as complex and non-Christian like Born of Oasis. I mean, from POD or Chevelle to Breaking Benjamin or Disturbed; it's all of a particular genre that merely serves as the vehicle for whatever lyrical content the writer so chooses to write.

It's ignorance to only know a genre by one lyrical context but it's stupidity to believe a genre to be lyrical content- or relgion/non-religion-specific. Maybe at one point there was no blurring of the lines for a genre but times have changed. Change with them or appear ignorant; the choice is yours.

-Stephen

Read It Again: Jeasus was about love saving our sorry asses from hell.
The TRUTH is BELIEVE OR BURN ! GOD WILL BE THE JUDGE OF OUR SOUL NOT ME OR ANY OTHER HUMAN. WE CHRISTIANS WHO "GET IT" DONT WANT YOU TO BURN BECAUSE WE LOVE YOU! THEREFORE WE MUST SPEAK OUT. WE ARE NOT JUDGING YOU, WE ARE ONLY TRYING TO SHARE THE LIGHT WE HAVE FOUND. YET OUR ABILITY TO DO SO IS HAMPERED BY OUR OWN WEAKNESSES AND BY ALLTHE POWERS OF SATIN. I DO NOT THINK THERE IS ONE GOD. I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE IS ONE GOD. I KNOW THERE IS ONE GOD. I SPEAK TO HIM AND HE TO ME VIA THE HOLY SPIRIT. IF YOU THINK THAT MAKES ME PSYCOTIC YOU ARE NOT ALONE. THAT IS WHY THE ORIGINAL POST QUESTION ANSWER IS YES!!! WE WILL SPEAK OUT IN OUR ROCK MUSIC AND IN OUR DAILY LIVES! BEING A CHRISTIAN DOES NOT MAKE ME FREE OF SIN IT MAKES ME FORGIVIN. I AM NOT ANGRY I AM IN PAIN FOR MYSELF AND FOR ALL OF HUMANITY. YET AS AN AMERICAN I WOULD FIGHT FOR AND DIE FOR YOUR RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHATEVER YOU WANT.
GOD FAMILY LIBERTY AND COUNTRY
(BLOOD CHILLING REBLE YELL WITH MY FIST IN THE AIR)

I'll burn, thanks. I like Jesus just fine: I'm just not so sure about some of his fan club.

[quote="celticpiping"]....

Remember my hellfire & brimstone spewing friend, Jesus HIMSELF reached out IN LOVE to those whom he sought to touch/heal.

...quote]

Ya mean, he didn't scream out with a bloody rebel yell and lofting an AK-47 above his head?

Glad we settled THAT!

I stand, a 26 year-old man raised in the mindset of Southern Baptist hellfire and brimstone and I have to say it feels AMAZING to finally feel FREE of the mental confinements of Christianity and religion in general

Phrail,

I too was bound by the religious teachings of the Southern Baptist Church. Let me ask you, do you really believe that Jesus handed himself over to the "Southern Baptist" Pharisees of His time, go to trial in the middle of the night which was against all teachings of the Torah, be whipped beyond all recognition, then be hanged on a Roman Crucifix to die one of the most agonizing deaths a person can endure just so you could be taught a Gospel of Doom and Death? The word Gospel means "good news" and I don't see anything good about hellfire and brimstone. Which leads me to believe that so-called religious sects under the guise of Christianity are falsely teaching a twisted form of the Word.

The God of Christianity leaves little to be desired: In the name of love, you're expected to live your life to serve "Him". IF you happen to do this successfully by the terms of The Bible, you will go heaven! Heaven is this magical place that is greater than that which you could ever BEGIN to imagine! You know, imagine for a second that you actually live your life for YOURSELF and you make your experience here on earth an experience of love, life, happiness, fulfillment, etc. What is the interest in this heaven and this happiness beyond life? Why do you need to serve a God that you only BELIEVE in and HOPE that you end up dying and finding yourself in this place that is supposedly everything you can't begin to imagine? lol... I just don't understand you people of faith who so blindly preach your personal "truth" as if it is indeed a by scientific law TRUTH. I don't criticize people of faith by any means. Believe what you believe and that's great! If you're right, then you're right but maybe 2% of people of Christianity have EVER come to me and preached out of genuine concern for my "soul". Ask yourself, are you just getting defensive and getting all high and mighty on someone or do you ACTUALLY GIVE A SH*T about someone's post-death status?

the only thing that you need to do to go to heaven is believe in salvation that only comes from the shed blood of Jesus. There are no works involved. Again, you've been taught a twisted version of the Word.

Listen, you can choose whom ever you want to serve and worship. Was it Bob Dillan that said you are gonna' serve somebody! In the big picture, you are either gonna serve the one and true God, creator of the universe, or you will serve His created angel who was bannished from Heaven, the one we used to call as Lucifer and now we call Satan. I'm not trying to save the world, just the few who will open their eyes and ears and see the truth. If you claim to be pagan, your gods are only as high as this world, and they really can't offer you anything except lies. If you choose to believe in Jesus, the Son of the living God, you will be seated with Him in Heaven just for believing, nothing else.

If you really like living that kind of empty life of drunken, drug induced, whoring, that is entirely up to you. I used to. I like my life now. Not alone. The love of my kids and wife. A good margarita or Pacifico every week at the local Tex Mex. That is life.

You, though, sound like you are preparing yourself for an eternal hell therefore you speak that language. I see no love or kindness in your hard heart. Just bitterness from false teaching. Satan wins another one!

Of course I care for your soul. If I met you on the street, you would actually like me. Why? Because I would buy you a beer, sit down and talk about stuff, music, etc. I would probably ask you if you have talked to God lately. I would share with you the struggles I have faced. I would also tell you that He delivered me numberous times from death. I would ask you what pain the church has caused you. I would ask you if you would be willing to forgive the church for it's ignorance. I would ask you if you are ready to come back to Jesus and give him the real chance he has bought and paid for. If you weren't, I would leave it at that.

If I were a surgeon, I would ask you if you wanted that big ol' tumor next to your heart taken out, tell you the consequences of leaving it in, the price of taking it out and then leave the decision up to you. If you decided to not have the surgery, I would be sad, but respectful of your decision. Most Christians are that way. Maybe they don't know how to voice it. But I know in my heart that most Christians, more than 2%, are good people with great intentions. I hope you can figure out that not all believers are religious nuts.

I stand, a 26 year-old man raised in the mindset of Southern Baptist hellfire and brimstone and I have to say it feels AMAZING to finally feel FREE of the mental confinements of Christianity and religion in general

Phrail,

I too was bound by the religious teachings of the Southern Baptist Church. Let me ask you, do you really believe that Jesus handed himself over to the "Southern Baptist" Pharisees of His time, go to trial in the middle of the night which was against all teachings of the Torah, be whipped beyond all recognition, then be hanged on a Roman Crucifix to die one of the most agonizing deaths a person can endure just so you could be taught a Gospel of Doom and Death? The word Gospel means "good news" and I don't see anything good about hellfire and brimstone. Which leads me to believe that so-called religious sects under the guise of Christianity are falsely teaching a twisted form of the Word.

The God of Christianity leaves little to be desired: In the name of love, you're expected to live your life to serve "Him". IF you happen to do this successfully by the terms of The Bible, you will go heaven! Heaven is this magical place that is greater than that which you could ever BEGIN to imagine! You know, imagine for a second that you actually live your life for YOURSELF and you make your experience here on earth an experience of love, life, happiness, fulfillment, etc. What is the interest in this heaven and this happiness beyond life? Why do you need to serve a God that you only BELIEVE in and HOPE that you end up dying and finding yourself in this place that is supposedly everything you can't begin to imagine? lol... I just don't understand you people of faith who so blindly preach your personal "truth" as if it is indeed a by scientific law TRUTH. I don't criticize people of faith by any means. Believe what you believe and that's great! If you're right, then you're right but maybe 2% of people of Christianity have EVER come to me and preached out of genuine concern for my "soul". Ask yourself, are you just getting defensive and getting all high and mighty on someone or do you ACTUALLY GIVE A SH*T about someone's post-death status?

the only thing that you need to do to go to heaven is believe in salvation that only comes from the shed blood of Jesus. There are no works involved. Again, you've been taught a twisted version of the Word.

Listen, you can choose whom ever you want to serve and worship. Was it Bob Dillan that said you are gonna' serve somebody! In the big picture, you are either gonna serve the one and true God, creator of the universe, or you will serve His created angel who was bannished from Heaven, the one we used to call as Lucifer and now we call Satan. I'm not trying to save the world, just the few who will open their eyes and ears and see the truth. If you claim to be pagan, your gods are only as high as this world, and they really can't offer you anything except lies. If you choose to believe in Jesus, the Son of the living God, you will be seated with Him in Heaven just for believing, nothing else.

If you really like living that kind of empty life of drunken, drug induced, whoring, that is entirely up to you. I used to. I like my life now. Not alone. The love of my kids and wife. A good margarita or Pacifico every week at the local Tex Mex. That is life.

You, though, sound like you are preparing yourself for an eternal hell therefore you speak that language. I see no love or kindness in your hard heart. Just bitterness from false teaching. Satan wins another one!

LOL! You couldn't know me any less but that's fine; I don't expect you to. This is the internet and I can't give you the full encompassment of my complex being on a mere messageboard. I am agnostic. I do not believe in God or Satan but I do not feel it's not possible for there to be a God or a Satan. I don't believe in ghosts or miracles but I don't believe it's not possible for such a thing to exist. Ignoring the irrationalities of something, or "having faith," if you will, is not something that my analytical brain comprehends.

I have never touched drugs, I rarely drink and my friends and family would tell you I am one of the most caring, loving, kind-hearted people you have ever met. How's that for your assumption? Now, I don't have to prove any of that to you because you don't matter to me. If I read on the internet that you died and I knew it was you, even from this type of conflict of ours, I would still feel for you and be somewhat sad. You are a person, you have love, you have people that love you, etc. I am a pessimistic, cynical agnostic but I am one of the most passionate people you would ever meet both in love and in argument.

-Stephen

EDIT: And yes, of course I know not all believers are nuts. The guy who wrote the book Divine Nobodies seems like an awesome guy and I applaud his approach to take the obfuscations of religion away from the original notion of Christianity and God. Even still, it requires faith and I need answers. I need answers that no human can give me. I require answers that people of faith are satisfied with simply having faith to answer. My involvement with religion is probably MUCH greater than yours but I am not going to assume that. I have sought God MUCH more intensely than many people have to. I'll go into this later if necessary but to open this can of worms with me is to open a can of worms I'm pretty sure you're not equiped to handle without the obligatory, "it's in the bible!" No, it's not in the bible because the history of the bible is as twisted as modern day contortionists of religion. I don't believe that, I have come to that conclusion through much study and WORK to seek this "truth" that SO MANY PEOPLE just believe! I am amazed at the capacity of so many people to just... believe! I am at times envious of them, to be honest.

Phrail,

you and would make great beer buddies. Because you are reading me all wrong. I too struggle so much with belief. Sometimes, faith is just not enough. I have been saved for 12 years next month. I saw a miracle, and angels. I haven't talked about that for ten years except to my wife. I knew she wouldn't judge me. I don't know if it was the joint I smoked before all of this happened....never hallucinated on pot before. It's hard for me to just blindly believe in anything. I'm sort of a "show me the money" kinda guy. But I will say this, God has been so faithful to me. I'm just not that lucky to have been given all that I have by blind luck. We really don't seem to be all that different.

Phrail,

you and would make great beer buddies. Because you are reading me all wrong. I too struggle so much with belief. Sometimes, faith is just not enough. I have been saved for 12 years next month. I saw a miracle, and angels. I haven't talked about that for ten years except to my wife. I knew she wouldn't judge me. I don't know if it was the joint I smoked before all of this happened....never hallucinated on pot before. It's hard for me to just blindly believe in anything. I'm sort of a "show me the money" kinda guy. But I will say this, God has been so faithful to me. I'm just not that lucky to have been given all that I have by blind luck. We really don't seem to be all that different.

I appreciate you saying that and I can much more welcomely speak with you on that premise. Unfortunately, your experiences impacted you PROFOUNDLY, right? Let's be honest... had you heard someone tell you that they had the experience you had, would it make YOU convert? Assuming, of course, you hadn't had the experience at all; just the person talking to you. You know, my uncle was a huge druggie but converted to being a mormon overnight 25+ YEARS ago when he saw Jesus next to the toilet. Laughable when put in that context, but that experience changed his life forever. Unfortunately, as if believing in a God isn't hard enough, believing that a human who walks on this earth just as we all do has had some divine situation happen to them is even more difficult because it puts us all on level playing field. How unfair for someone like me who has SO DESPERATELY wanted to believe to not be given a scenario such as yours; life altering, when I've begged for it before. Maybe it'll come but who's to say? Until that point, to feel judged, be assumed and misunderstood by another human being undoes me. Not that you have by any means beyond what's natural at this point in time in our debate but I think you get my point.

-Stephen

Ahhh, A much kinder, gentler Stephen. I wish I could help. Actually, my wife would tell that I was a little hard to put up with for about 4 years. I graduated from Bible college thinking I was gonna go out and save the world. Instead, I have spent the last 5 years changing diapers, wiping runny noses and learning how to be a father. Since my dad worked three jobs I didn't get to spend much time with him. My parents divorced in '81 and my dad hasn't really been a part of my life since.

I've had to deal with abandonment issues all of my life. It's scary to wake up one day and realize you are 45 years old, have done nothing important with your life, scared and hopeless. This is 11 years after I was saved. But in the last year, I really just began to seek first the Kingdom of Heaven, and His righteousness and things began to slowly change. That's all I know.

I asked God for proof over and over and all I got was more questions. I don't know how to say it any clearer. Once I began to lean on Him and trust Him, and just go about my daily affairs, giving all glory to Him, things began to flow. So for the last year, I have been putting together this ministry band, something I have waited for for 5 years. I slowly started finding people that I desired to be in this project. I started building my studio. The money seems to be there to buy the stuff I need.

Nothing has changed except that I just started trusting the Lord. That's it.

Phrail, I wish I could say something to ease your torment. I don't want to be one of those bible thumping drones that haven't experienced life. Call me anytime....214.317.3861 my name is Joe

Would somebody help me put up this revival tent? I feel a poooooowwwwerrrr comin' on!