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#202185 by J-HALEY
Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:36 pm
MikeTalbot wrote:Jimmyd

The one thing I can absolutely guarantee is that had i been at Sandy Hook there would have been a lot less casualties. That''s not bragging - i don't see anything brag-worthy about it. Just a statement of fact.

Three times in my life I've drawn a pistol to protect myself or someone else (not counting war). Three times that solved the problem without gunfire. but if it takes gunfire - oh well.

I could care less about bad guy casualties. A citizen of a free Republic should manfully step up to the duty of protecting those who need protecting: the weak, the old, the children, the women. The cops don't do it. Even if they were brave like on tv, they couldn't do it. they are not there. (after Columbine the question of are the police brave was resolved once and for all. NOT)

When we lost our willingness to put it on the line to protect ourselves and others is when we sold our souls to the govt. Which was ludicrously pathetic - we'd have done better to engage the mafia! Who at least do protect you when they say they will!

how's Rahm Emmanual doing protecting people in Chicago? not so good eh? Must need more gun control....

Talbot


Ditto! :)

#202186 by jimmydanger
Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:10 pm
Our voices were heard. The system works.

1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."

11. "Nominate an ATF director."

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."
Last edited by jimmydanger on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#202195 by jimmydanger
Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:11 pm
Ha! That's what you get from listening to Glenny, Slacker, Yod and Jeff! Oh and Faux News!

#202202 by PaperDog
Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:04 pm
jimmydanger wrote:Our voices were heard. The system works.


1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."
3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."



WASTE: It will never happen....Too Much negative impact on Privacy Act.

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."


WASTE: We already have a system for that . It works! Reviewing what already works is plainly a waste of tax payer money. What they should review instead is the legislation that was letting criminals and mental cases out on the streets. You assault somebody, 15 years min...non negotiable. You sell poisons to kids, Life imprisonment, non negotiable. But you still wont stop the whack jobs that hit these schools....

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."


Why not just stick a probe up everybody's ass and be done with it? If you get busted with a weapon, what exactly is the point of a BG investigation at that stage?

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."


WASTE! Dealers already know how to do this. The reason they dont practice it diligently is because their customers cannot afford that cash..and thus discourages the sales on guns...

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
"

WASTE: The law does not allow advertisement of weapons for sale. thus market reach "nationally" is moot. What would this campaign achieve..."Say no to guns" ?

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."


AGREE! Safety is always important

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
"

WASTE! That already exists. just ask any investigator who wants somebody prosecuted. They will trace that weapon down to the the hands that assembled it in the factory if they have to.

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."


WASTE! The D.O.J. is extremely incompetent (as we all have seen) and unable to assert useful analysis of information surrounding field activity, including the trend of handguns. ( Hell, They cant even sell off automatics without botching it up...)

11. "Nominate an ATF director."


Why? Its just one more payroll obligation. The ATF has enough leaders... If anything, many of those just need to be fired.

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."


WASTE: That's already covered when you buy a hand gun. Some states require that training on the use of hand guns... If teachers are packing heat, you can bet they know how to use it. Ask any Bronx school official. What they need to do is allow the teachers to carry firearms on campus... OR how about we jet get all these fkd up parents to teach their children that guns are not a good solution to anything at school.

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."


WASTE: While the police hang around your son's school, check his bedroom window for an armed asshole that wants to rob your house. Again, just let the teachers pack heat.

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."


Holy crap! CDC??? Why not get Merril-Lynch in on it too... While were at it , how about we get the Greyhound bus company in on it. Sorry this is totally irresponsible. Can you say Cash Voucher and lame excuse to derive fed funds? Somebody's pockets are getting full today...

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."


WASTE. Its already out there. How about these "idea makers" pony up some money and pay the private sector for its expertise, so it can release that information...again....

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."


WASTE: DO you know any doctors that wanna know about your guns?

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."


WASTE! Healthcare providers as with all other citizens, have a civic duty and responsibility to report anyway.

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."


WASTE! That's the job of Parents.

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."


AGREE, add it to the existing Disaster policies and procedures

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."


IF This hasnt already been done...then yes, for the sake of business, they should clarify
[/quote]

#202204 by Kramerguy
Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:13 pm
Our voices were heard. The system works.

Posted: 16 Jan 2013 06:10 pm Post subject:
Our voices were heard. The system works.

1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."
Perform task that should have been implemented and obvious from the start. They needed 20+ mass shootings and meetings with the NRA to realize this?

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."
Fix broken laws and address the waste that encompasses them. Glad nobody had to die for them to address this :roll:

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."
So, we need to bribe the states to do their jobs?

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."
I see this as a problem, because it assumes mentally ill people are more likely to be violent and commit murder, but moreso that it now adds the possibility of other "categories", and if you have imagination, that means you can see they might assume anyone here who is upset with the government could be categorized as 'dangerous'; including those of you who claim the government is trying to take your guns

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."
This makes little sense- "propose rulemaking" infers that they are not following guidelines, therefore rules are needed; but then goes on to say "the ability to run a full..." which infers that they are currently unable to do so. Which is it? Can't be both!

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."
How about taking off the kid gloves. You shouldn't own a gun store if you are unable by ignorance or stupidity, be able to run a simple background check and follow the appropriate laws on waiting periods and denials. Anyone who fails should get jail time and have their business shut down. I guess the NRA won on this one.

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."
I sure as hell hope that gun owners and stores plan to finance this, as I shouldn't have to pay for something that we shouldn't need in the first place.. Not to say we don't need it, but if we got rid of the guns, there'd be no reason for it.

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."
Well.. DUH! Should have been regulated a long time ago.

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."
And yet another thing they should have been doing all along. I'd bet most americans just assumed they were already doing this.

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."
See answer #9 again.

11. "Nominate an ATF director."
I'm inclined to believe that it's current status as a department under the DoJ is a better way. How about we make the DoJ DO THEIR JOBS? Isn't that a better idea?

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."
Yes, Yes, and WHA?! no amount of training will change the way a bunch of fat, unarmed slobs handle an "active shooter situation". They will all hide under their desks and pray, or end up dead, just like all the others. Arming them would likely be as effective as the columbine security guards, with exception that more kids might get hit with friendly fire. I don't know how to address this one, but acting on fear and training people to live in fear doesn't seem like the answer.

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."
13 IS an unlucky number it seems, because that's the most pathetic and stupid thing I've read so far today. Of course we should be maximizing our efforts.. did that really need to be said??

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."
And while we're at it, why not Have the ATF research the causes and prevention of E-coli bacteria?! The ATF and it's parent, the DoJ should be doing this, not the CDC.. this is now struggling to beat #13 for stupidity.. I think it may have won

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."
Make sure that school shooter is safely using his guns to mow down kids? Brilliant!

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."
Because someone with mental illness (knowing they will take his/her guns), or a criminal cannot possibly lie to their doctor when asked...
seriously?


17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."
No law, but the medical agency that licenses them to practice DOES prohibit them from breaking patient confidentiality. There's already standards in place to report threats of all types, so this looks more like a fishing expedition, where the government will spell out what a "threat" is, that will most likely include anyone with anxiety or stress; which is basically most people.

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."
Say what?

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."
We have DR plans.. (disaster recovery).. for those not familiar, it's basically a plan to clean up various types of messes such as hurricanes, explosions, forest fires, total loss, etc. There's no corporate plan for what to do DURING those events, other than to get to safety. Do we really need a plan that says: In case of a shooting, remain calm, dodge the bullets if you can, hold your hand in a fake gun style like you were playing cops and robbers and maybe the gunman will be faked into retreating.. really, this idea looks equally as stupid as theirs.

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."
But make no commitments or even vague implications of adding more to the current list

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."
Finish something that is unfinished?

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."
again?

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."
another empty "point".


You will notice most of my talking points are both pro and anti gun. I'm anti-stupidity more than anything else, and this "guideline" is so stupid my IQ dropped. Is this what "compromise" looks like these days? Frankly it looks like a half-hearted-feel-good-attempt, while actually doing very little, possibly the most minimalist effort to address the problem possible.

I expected at least something more than this pile of rubbish.

#202206 by J-HALEY
Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:18 pm
jimmydanger wrote:Ha! That's what you get from listening to Glenny, Slacker, Yod and Jeff! Oh and Faux News!


I love the way you left wingnuts overdramatize what I have been saying!

This is for YOU Jimmy. :lol:

http://www.teaparty.org/texas-threatens ... egs-18695/

#202207 by Deadguitars
Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:20 pm
As I predicted he has done nothing
By the time all these feel good suggestions make it into law they will be just watered down wastes of time ..... if they make it at all
What a joke

#202210 by jw123
Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:27 pm
I personally own guns like to shoot them and dont want anyone telling me what I can and cant shoot.

I think that some better controls should be in place, even thou I dont want to lose my guns.

My problem and I watched the broadcast today, was that its just trying to get people to back Obama. Why do we suddenly do this exercise 30 days after Newton, things like this should be thought out over time, not some knee jerk display just to bolster the polls in the presidents favor. Having those kids behind him.

But I gotta admit the dude is a PR Pro, thats for sure.

#202213 by Deadguitars
Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:34 pm
jw123 wrote:I personally own guns like to shoot them and dont want anyone telling me what I can and cant shoot.

I think that some better controls should be in place, even thou I dont want to lose my guns.

My problem and I watched the broadcast today, was that its just trying to get people to back Obama. Why do we suddenly do this exercise 30 days after Newton, things like this should be thought out over time, not some knee jerk display just to bolster the polls in the presidents favor. Having those kids behind him.

But I gotta admit the dude is a PR Pro, thats for sure.

He hasnt wanted to do anything.
The shooting forced his hand. Now he can say " I tried ".
All he has done is punt the ball.

#202223 by Kramerguy
Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:28 pm
Deadguitars wrote:
jw123 wrote:I personally own guns like to shoot them and dont want anyone telling me what I can and cant shoot.

I think that some better controls should be in place, even thou I dont want to lose my guns.

My problem and I watched the broadcast today, was that its just trying to get people to back Obama. Why do we suddenly do this exercise 30 days after Newton, things like this should be thought out over time, not some knee jerk display just to bolster the polls in the presidents favor. Having those kids behind him.

But I gotta admit the dude is a PR Pro, thats for sure.

He hasnt wanted to do anything.
The shooting forced his hand. Now he can say " I tried ".
All he has done is punt the ball.


Glad he took the time to meet with the NRA so they could help him draft that sorry list.

#202251 by MikeTalbot
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:11 am
My doctor has already asked me about guns:

"So Talbot - which pump shotgun is best for home defense? And should I get my daughter a Glock or a revolver!"

Zero would love him.

Answers for the record [Mossberg or Rem. 870] for shotgun, ixnay on the Glock. Glocks are not for casual shooters.

Talbot

#202295 by jimmydanger
Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:41 pm
It is the media's responsibility to keep government honest. That is why the perp is identified and examined in these cases. That and people are morbidly curious. Can you imagine the howling that would happen if all you heard was that the event happened but no other info?

#202296 by Kramerguy
Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:43 pm
It's also very interesting that the war on drugs and it's obvious impact on gun violence was completely absent from the discussion.

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