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#201955 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:31 pm
After the battle at Ft Sumner began the Civil war, the Union quickly moved to secure the state of Missouri. One might ask...why not Kentucky or Maryland or Pennsylvania? Because Missouri produced the lead to make ammunition.

This is the first rule of war, trying to cut off enemy supplies and/or capability to wage war. This is why the Japanese attacked ships in Hawaii instead of bombing a much larger target in Los Angelos, San Francisco, or Seattle.




I'm all for anyone with a criminal record or history of mental illness being denied the (fundamental) right of owning a gun.

Isn't that already the law though? How many criminals have registered their weapons? How can anyone logically conclude that making lawful citizens register is somehow going to make the criminal who got his gun illegally more docile?

But that isn't the impetus behind the 2nd Amendment.

The Second Amendment isn't about the right to hunt squirrels, or fight off gangs in the neighborhood, though that would certainly be considered good reason. It is specifically about keeping the government honest, so the First Amendment would always be guaranteed and protected.

As has been said, when the government fears the people, there is freedom...when the people fear the government there is tyranny.

On the surface it looks like they will propose something that sounds reasonable. However, Obama's M.O. (method of operation) is to say something that is palatable and then put something else entirely into the document being voted upon. He knows that average Americans aren't paying attention to the details and when anyone shines light on his crooked plans, the innattentive Dems are going to respond with stupid accusations (instead of checking the facts) and fight for him, dividing us even further from the truth. Not sure why they think any politician can be trusted, but that's another thread.

Those same libs will be surprised when their utopian propoganda has been exposed to the reality of human nature. (Just like the promise that no one making under 250,000k will see their taxes rise). They will also be the first executed when martial law comes, so guys, it's you whom we are trying to save from being exterminated. We'll get by better in the south...



But when the Democrats say they want to take away the Second Amendment (inalienable right) from citizens who have never broken any law, they are saying that we, the people, are their enemies and need to be disarmed.

That is the real issue here. I wonder how many remember that the government was originally intended to work for us?

Our Executive Branch no longer represents the citizens to govern.....or he would govern within the laws created to keep checks and balances and accept the will of the people. No, he has decided that he rules us....by Executive Decree.

And the liberals love it so. Should Obama ever leave office (and I don't think he will without violence) the next President will have a new "mandate" to do as he wishes. If you live long enough to see the end of the Obama Administration, you'll understand why most of us are opposed to a Dictator.




.

#201962 by gbheil
Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:49 pm
It's really simple.
The only reason to disarm a populace is oppression.
They know it, we know it.
With the exception of a whole bunch of misguided fools.

But then, that is precisely what the Fed is counting on.

#201965 by gtZip
Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:56 pm
I was looking at the Bushmaster site last night... Some damned expensive stuff.
What did you say you had, George? H & K something?

#201979 by MikeTalbot
Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:28 am
Yod

Why should a felon who served his term, is off parole, be denied his God given rights?

the fact of it is, if he is not safe to be on the street with a gun, he ain't safe period! Why is he out?

I don't trust the mental health thing either - it's keeping a lot of vets from being able to have firearms will, with Obamacare kicking in, mean anyone dumb enough to see a mental health professional for any reason is apt to be screwed.

Yet Every single damn mass shooting has been perpetrated by guys with mental health problems sure, but the common denominator was psyoctropic drugs. Every single one. But are we looking at that? No.

Does Big Pharma, together with Big Agra and Defense Industry, own DC? Answer is yes.

Talbot

#201993 by gbheil
Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:42 pm
gtZip wrote:I was looking at the Bushmaster site last night... Some damned expensive stuff.
What did you say you had, George? H & K something?


I have a Colt AR-15 HBAR MATCH TARGET.
And the H&K 91 I mention is actually manufactured here in the States by SCORPION ARMS utilizing H&K prints. Exact copy minus the select fire fire control mechanism.

One son owns a BUSHMASTER SHORTY, the other prefers to reach out.
He has a Browning bolt action in .308.

We have a lot of fun at the range together. We will set up and engage targets from 25, 50 , 75 100, 200, & 300 meters. Quality time where one can use the dynamics of the discipline of shooting to teach many life lessons based on the sound principle of RESPONSIBILITY.

#202031 by Starfish Scott
Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:26 pm
"Colt AR-15 HBAR MATCH TARGET"

Holy sheet..slap on a 50mm scope you're set !!!!

Glad that's in your hands George.
Now that's a weapon worthy of a real experienced shooter.

#202089 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:01 am
MikeTalbot wrote:Yod

Why should a felon who served his term, is off parole, be denied his God given rights?

the fact of it is, if he is not safe to be on the street with a gun, he ain't safe period! Why is he out?

I don't trust the mental health thing either - it's keeping a lot of vets from being able to have firearms will, with Obamacare kicking in, mean anyone dumb enough to see a mental health professional for any reason is apt to be screwed.

Yet Every single damn mass shooting has been perpetrated by guys with mental health problems sure, but the common denominator was psyoctropic drugs. Every single one. But are we looking at that? No.

Does Big Pharma, together with Big Agra and Defense Industry, own DC? Answer is yes.

Talbot






OK, if Pharma drugs is the common denominator, then insurance companies should be going after them for these claims in Denver.

But you're right that most of these freak shootings lately are people who don't have a criminal record....yet they are connected by pharma usage/abuse.

#202132 by gbheil
Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:14 pm
Is it only me whom wonders why most these "school shooters" commit suicide?

Or they are immediately labeled as "insane" so none of their testimony is made public?


Something stinks . . .

#202138 by Kramerguy
Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:57 pm
MikeTalbot wrote:
Yet Every single damn mass shooting has been perpetrated by guys with mental health problems sure, but the common denominator was psyoctropic drugs. Every single one. But are we looking at that? No.



That is an extremely broad and wholly inaccurate statement.

...Unless you can assume that anyone who shoots up a mall, school, post office, etc.. had to be mental to do it.. then you may have a point, but most of that would chalk up to temporary insanity, not ongoing mental health issues. The kids from columbine were considered "dorky", does that count as a mental problem?

You are correct that obamacare or whatever else we end up with will count nearly everyone as mental if we continue to allow the media to convince us that we're all mostly mental...

Most of these shootings are done by "normal" people who apparently have just snapped, sometimes we know why and other times we never really figure out the reason. A few people, including myself, have theorized that it's potentially a few different things all tied together, such as the immense stress put on youth today, economy, debt, personal crisis's, and anything else related to stress overall.

What is really killing the pro gun supporters is the outright hysteria you guys are emulating.. 60% of americans WANT there to be tighter regulation on background checks and waiting periods, as well as limits on clip size and return the ban on assault rifles.

If you guys could come to the table and speak rationally on the subject and let some basic common sense prevail, you would see that SOMETHING needs to change, and that nobody is going to take ALL your guns, but likely will take the guns capable of mass murder.

Let's inject some honesty into the discussion. You have a shotgun, a pistol with a 17-shot clip.. what typical home or personal defense situation calls for an assault rifle with a 30-round banana clip? Yeah, it's possible, but not bloodly likely, even in the worst of neighborhoods.. so that 1-in-a-million situation is worth 30+ mass murder school shootings annually? It's not logical. 60% of americans agree.

You guys are all about democracy, right? Well there's your democratic process, working as intended.

#202141 by gbheil
Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:13 pm
Kramerguy wrote:
MikeTalbot wrote:
Yet Every single damn mass shooting has been perpetrated by guys with mental health problems sure, but the common denominator was psyoctropic drugs. Every single one. But are we looking at that? No.



That is an extremely broad and wholly inaccurate statement.

...Unless you can assume that anyone who shoots up a mall, school, post office, etc.. had to be mental to do it.. then you may have a point, but most of that would chalk up to temporary insanity, not ongoing mental health issues. The kids from columbine were considered "dorky", does that count as a mental problem?

You are correct that obamacare or whatever else we end up with will count nearly everyone as mental if we continue to allow the media to convince us that we're all mostly mental...

Most of these shootings are done by "normal" people who apparently have just snapped, sometimes we know why and other times we never really figure out the reason. A few people, including myself, have theorized that it's potentially a few different things all tied together, such as the immense stress put on youth today, economy, debt, personal crisis's, and anything else related to stress overall.

What is really killing the pro gun supporters is the outright hysteria you guys are emulating.. 60% of americans WANT there to be tighter regulation on background checks and waiting periods, as well as limits on clip size and return the ban on assault rifles.

If you guys could come to the table and speak rationally on the subject and let some basic common sense prevail, you would see that SOMETHING needs to change, and that nobody is going to take ALL your guns, but likely will take the guns capable of mass murder.

Let's inject some honesty into the discussion. You have a shotgun, a pistol with a 17-shot clip.. what typical home or personal defense situation calls for an assault rifle with a 30-round banana clip? Yeah, it's possible, but not bloodly likely, even in the worst of neighborhoods.. so that 1-in-a-million situation is worth 30+ mass murder school shootings annually? It's not logical. 60% of americans agree.

You guys are all about democracy, right? Well there's your democratic process, working as intended.


That democratic process you speak of is to be limited by Constitutional law.
Stepping outside that Constitutional constraint means it is no longer a legal "democratic" process and thereby an act of treason against the free people of the US.


The criminals at Columbine were drug users.

A FREE PEOPLE OUGHT NOT ONLY BE ARMED AND DISCIPLINED. BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE SUFFICIENT ARMS AND AMMUNITION TO MAINTAIN A STATUS OF INDEPENDENCE FROM ANY WHO MIGHT ATTEMPT TO ABUSE THEM. WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT.

GEORGE WASHINGTON:

#202253 by MikeTalbot
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:24 am
Kramer

The 2nd ain't about home defense except paranthetically. It's about political power. If power is in the hands of the people - you have freedom. If it is in the hands of govt - you have tyranny. It really is that simple.

The govt has sytemattically and deliberately watered down the quality of the American people. Then uses this (gangs, crimes, shootings) to try and justify taking our weapons. Really? Those of us who are left are not that stupid. In my grandfather's day you could mail order a submachine gun. That was not considered extraordinary btw.

And don't talk that democracy nonsense. It's about rule of law. The only legal way, the only way - to change the bill of rights involves a constitutional ammendment. Yet not one leftist schemer has ever suggested that - the only legal rememdy.

You can't vote on natural rights. If you can, you lose. We all lose.

And my choice of guns is in no way anybody's business but my own. I want the best I can get - why wouldn't I? You don't get to tell me what guns I can have. You can try - but I don't think you or any one else seems to get the fact that we will NOT comply.

Talbot

#202254 by MikeTalbot
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:54 am
George

This weekend I hope to site in my mini-14 with a new 'scout' style forward scope. Only 4 power but quick target aquisition. Folding butt and the usual stuff. Since i can't see past 200 meters anyway that's best for me.

If I can fight off this damn cold I'll be showing some folks how to use handguns for suppressive fire against multiple targets. Sort of a jungle lane exercise! Always fun. (particularly with guys who are safety obsessive southern boys)

All they had left at the store were Zombie targets though but I kinda like them. :wink:

Talbot

#202297 by gbheil
Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:47 pm
Mike

Sounds like FUN !

My AR-15 is of the A3 configuration.
I presently have the carry handle removed (and stored in an outer pocket of my "go bag".)
The railed flat top has a QR leaver mounted LEUPOLD 1.5 x 4 compact variable.
Despite a slight ghost from the front sight tower, when set at 1.5 it allows for both eyes open target acquisition.
And 4x is plenty for 300m.
Of course a 3x9 would be more LR accurate, but it would make the rife useless for CQB.

#202343 by PaperDog
Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:02 pm
If someone takes a weapon to a middle school, and opens fire on Children and teachers... Is that not a mentally disturbed person?

As I see it, Every last case in the entire universe of this life, the one before this life and the one after this life...of a school shooting... was unequivocally done by a mentally disturbed person. Can anybody really dispute this and call it 'non-fact'?

#202390 by MikeTalbot
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:02 pm
George

That sounds like a pretty sweet gat. I'll be shooting my pal's AR this weekend and may end up getting one myself - if that is still possible next time i have money! :oops: I used to hate them because they were so picky (I an AK kind of guy) but they have really gotten much better - the A3 out to be a real gem.

I cannot for the life of me see why any one should object to our outing this weekend but I know some do. We may accidently harm some hibernating chiggers but that is about that! :D And anybody who has every experienced a Georgia chigger should applaud!

Talbot

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