General Music Chat

I was just about to go to sleep and happened to have one of those "HOLY SH!T" ideas that come along now and then!

I think I figured out how the economy of Star Trek might actually work!

Or, at least how it could evolve into something that works.

The writers of the show never explicitly explained how this is supposed to work.
But, there are clues throughout the show.

Okay, in the series & films of Star Trek money has become obsolete by the 22nd Century (at least).
Money is not used in the Federation.
Everything is free.
People work at jobs that they enjoy doing and the rest is automated.
Now, not everyone in the galaxy is this enlightened, of course.
The Ferengi are the ultimate capitalists.
You have to pay fees to enter a person's home, use the toilet, travel, practically EVERYTHING has a price tag on their planet!
So, the Federation has a system of credits that they use for trade with other planets.
If you see something for sale on Ferenginar. You can charge it to your account.

Now, imagine if you could join a club.
Membership in this club gives you a 'Trekkercard'.
It works kinda like PayPal, with bonus points.
You use Trekkercard at an establishment and it deducts the money from your bank or credit card account.
There's no fees or anything.

Okay, now suppose you go to a business and the owner of the business is another member in your club too.
He lets you have what you just bought for free.
No charge.
Trekkercard then just tallies up what you purchased, for accounting and marketing purposes.
But, it doesn't take any money out of your bank account.

If the owner of that business later wants to buy anything from you, you just let him have it for nothing.
It goes on his Trekkercard the same way as yours.

Now, here you have a system in place that incentivises people to give things away, because they get things for free as a result.
They still work at their old jobs.
Because they still need money to pay for things NOT covered by Trekkercard.
But, as more people join the club, more things become free to more people.
It spreads like a virus.
Or open-source software.

Any thoughts about this?

I'm having a hard time following the logic with the trekcard-

But I never really noticed any actual commerce between the ferrengi and the federation. I would lean towards assuming that trade between them would have been something like 'your 5 sheep are worth 30 crates of oranges' or something- simply put- trade.

I do recall the use of federation credits, but it's vague.

I've been looking into different local/national co-op's, which are supposed to be a trade system of goods and services without actual money (which in turn still needs to be a 'credits' system. The only problem is that most of these systems that I've found seem to focused mostly on goods and little on services, and also seem to be extremely slanted in their economics.

For instance, I would gladly trade my PC expertise in either business or home projects for groceries or some other daily needs, but so far, I can't find a system that puts any value on my services, but they put all the value on the goods, making it a slant where I would have to work a 40-hour week to equal what would be $30 worth of groceries at the local capitalist market. It's senseless. I've wondered if I could come up with a better system, but there's too many variables and I'm frankly not that smart.

So back to trekeconomics- I do agree that eventually, we will need to embrace a money-less system. In the grand scheme of things, nobody has the right to be born into extreme wealth and consumption while others are born into poverty, sickness, and starvation- especially when in the end, even today, there's MORE than enough to go around. And that's what capitalists don't understand.. that the needs of society are greater than their personal needs. So what if you produce more? You counteract those who produce less (for whatever reason), and when you don't, there's a shift downward that drags everyone else who is not wealthy with it, reducing the quality of life for the many, just for the personal riches of the one (also heavily pondered in star trek as you know).

People here think I hate wealthy people, and I guess in a way I do, but it's not out of envy as they believe. It's out of disgust that they have no understanding of social stigma, other than their own station and class. Everyone else is below them and treated as such (which is the real class war).

Problems:
What do you do about the loafers - the people who don't want to do anything but take and contribute nothing?
What about the crap jobs no one wants - garbage collection, sewer plant, etc?

Problems:
What do you do about the loafers - the people who don't want to do anything but take and contribute nothing?
What about the crap jobs no one wants - garbage collection, sewer plant, etc?

Well, like I said, this isn't something that just happens OVERNIGHT.
It EVOLVES with technology and the economic climate.
So, the crap jobs are still using employees until technology steps in later to take over.
People still need jobs to pay for things not covered by the card.

Problems:
What do you do about the loafers - the people who don't want to do anything but take and contribute nothing?
What about the crap jobs no one wants - garbage collection, sewer plant, etc?

My opinion is that there's always going to be people willing to do the menial work. I have a friend who is a trash collector and he's perfectly happy with his work. It seems that many people are wired for different types of work. Some prefer to work in offices, multitasking, organizing, leading projects, and others prefer to work outside and build, or just collect trash. I don't believe there's ever a shortage of people willing to do different levels of work.

As far as the loafers.. there needs to be a system to address them, for sure. In the colonial days when colonies had to work together as a means for survival, those who refused to work were put in stockades, pummeled with thrown objects, and ridiculed. It stood to say that even that harsh of a tactic failed to work on those who were truly lazy or unmotivated.

The only thing I can think of is exile. perhaps a 3-strikes rule. Of course you have to give consideration to disabled people, but many of them can work, but just aren't fitted or accommodated in the capitalist atmosphere. An amputee can do desk work, a blind person can do many things, as well as deaf, etc. But people who are debilitated who can't work should be taken care of, without exception. In most cases, it's nothing more than bad luck that caused their problems, the same bad luck can visit anyone, anytime. Lack of empathy for them is a sickness of society IMO.

Maybe we could establish an 'escape from NY' style exile colony, where these wild-west wannabe's can live out their dreams of kill-or-be-killed winner-take-all society. Maybe puerto rico or guam would be a good place for that, I don't know, but it should be somewhere outside of the US.

I've always endorsed the idea of exile- and a KoS policy if they ever step foot back in.. it's the only way to ensure they stay out.

I was fine with this until you made the Ferengi the capitalist! They STEAL like its going out of style! I think they are more apropriately labeled deomcrats LOL!

I was fine with this until you made the Ferengi the capitalist! They STEAL like its going out of style! I think they are more apropriately labeled deomcrats LOL!

Apparently, you missed a lot of episodes.
Ferengi call taxes "The T-Word"!
There are no social programs on Ferenginar, and the Ferengi are cannibals.
The unemployment line leads to someone else's dinner plate!
Soylent Green is Ferengis!
Actually, I think they made a green cola out of their poor.

I was fine with this until you made the Ferengi the capitalist! They STEAL like its going out of style! I think they are more apropriately labeled deomcrats LOL!

Judging by the mullet I would say the Klingons must be Republicans then
You funny; me funnier.

I was fine with this until you made the Ferengi the capitalist! They STEAL like its going out of style! I think they are more apropriately labeled deomcrats LOL!

Judging by the mullet I would say the Klingons must be Republicans then
You funny; me funnier.

Thats not a mullet. Thats a SKULLET! I am kinda jealous though!
Tom I just got your message this morning I didn't realize my account had expired. Thanks for the compliment brother!

I was fine with this until you made the Ferengi the capitalist! They STEAL like its going out of style! I think they are more apropriately labeled deomcrats LOL!

Judging by the mullet I would say the Klingons must be Republicans then
You funny; me funnier.

Actually, that's kind of true.
Watch the series as it progressed from the 60's to the 21st century.
They sorta morphed from smooth-head communist strawmen into modern-day Republican ridge-heads.
I think the message was that we are becoming our enemy, gradually.
I don't even believe that this was self-consciously done.
It just sorta evolved that way.

yeah man
Good stuff on your player
You should have your own band dude

Unless every home and business has a replicator its all jibber jabber and pointless.

BTW, that 'Trek' ideal economy - where everyone has a job they like to do, eveyone has what they want ..... it's nothing but ideal communism (what the Chinese and Russians attempted is not ideal - tehre was still a 'ruling class').
It's what the hippies attempted on communes - won't work in partial form.

I don't recall any communism that eliminated the problem with poverty. If it did, it would probably be ideal as the trek society. The ruling class is also an issue, where in the trek world, the cream rises to the top, and none are born into better circumstances - for instance, an admiral on the supreme council has a kid, who still has to go to the same university as every other kid and achieves or fails on his own merit.

I couldn't call that communism simply because it is different, there is no ruling class or monarchy to dictate.. it's truly more of a people's society. Perhaps there's a type of ISM that isn't yet defined, that takes from several others..

Trekonomics is Classical Marxism.

Who does the menial jobs? Machines, robots, automation, criminals...