General Music Chat

Even if every man makes $100 a night you're still working for not much more than minimum wage. Think about it. Load in time is usually 8pm, unless you have to bring the PA, then 6pm. Most bands play until 1:30 or so, then add another hour to tear down and load out. So now you've worked 6 1/2 to 8 1/2 hours minimum (not counting travel to and from the gig). Add in a three-hour rehearsal and you're up to 9 1/2 to 11 1/2 hours of work which translates to 8.50 to 10.50 an hour. If you are typical and spend $20 on drinks you're at minimum wage. You won't exactly get rich, so you better have a good reason to play music other than earning a living.

Yeah man.
Kudos to the pro's who do it night in and out.

Yep, it is a hobby and not much of a living for most. I figure I get paid union wage for load-in, load-out and transport, and I play for free.

My cover bands going rate is $600 per night, I figure it takes 8 hours, we bring in our pa and set up. 4 piece band, $150 each a night

Typically the crowd buys our drinks, I ussually spend less than $20 for my wife and I.

We do push people to drink up and make sure they tip the waitress's and bartenders.

A few years ago I spent quite a bit of time going to bars on week nights when they werent busy and talking my band up to the owners, they want one thing for us to bring in people to drink, its just the way it works.

Most of our gigs these days a group of people get together and pay us to play, then we find a venue. We have 4 places these days we play depending on the county the people who hire us live in, we just line up a date with these venues, cause they know from the past that we bring a drinking crowd that will stay most of the night.

In a ussual night we play everything from Soundgarden to Elvis, and hit all points in between.

We dont play near as much as we did 3-4 years ago, but when we do we get paid what we as a band have agreed between us is our minimum. We occasionally will do a benefit type cause if someone in the group feels strongly about it.

We are established going back 25 years, so my situation is way different than a group trying to start out.

Yep, it is a hobby and not much of a living for most. I figure I get paid union wage for load-in, load-out and transport, and I play for free.

Hey man
I hope someday to be able to play our music as well as you play yours ....
I like the types of places you guys play ..... lots of non bar gigs.
It does get tough balancing my love of the Grateful Dead and the reality of gigging.
http://youtu.be/ByXF8lnVa04

"Drink more you mangy curs or the bar owner will cry".. LOL

Ah I guess that needs work...

Yep, it is a hobby and not much of a living for most. I figure I get paid union wage for load-in, load-out and transport, and I play for free.

Hey man
I hope someday to be able to play our music as well as you play yours ....
I like the types of places you guys play ..... lots of non bar gigs.
It does get tough balancing my love of the Grateful Dead and the reality of gigging.
http://youtu.be/ByXF8lnVa04

JW, its no secret to anybody here that I'm not well versed in Gigs (yet)..

Here's my bottom line... You guys continue to believe that its 'okay' or '...that's the way it works...get used to it' And for all that, you are getting exactly what you settled for. Ask yourselves if that's really okay... (The answer is obviously, 'hell no...its not')

I'm saying that maybe more musicians should grow a set of balls and negotiate in their favor, just enough to bring the agreements to the 21st century version of acceptability.

I do not dispute the sensible notion of laying down all the terms up front. But I refuse to accept defeat, by the notion that it's okay for that musicians to get spanked for doing what they do.

Even a whore knows what shes worth... Why is this such a difficult issue for working bands?

Musicians are more plentiful than whores, that's why they're underpaid. At least whores provide a service lol.

Musicians are more plentiful than whores, that's why they're underpaid. At least whores provide a service lol.

LOL True dat!

Ok So there is definately a competitive environment, which IMHO is great and as it should be. Thus A musician might be compelled to really work up the chops, on the hope that he can convince a reputable venue to take him on.

Consider the Viper Room. (Chaeya would know about this) , but I speculate that the Viper Room has some pretty tough standards. However, once a band passes muster, it plays that room, and the best part...they get paid a reasonable sum. Its a high end venue which appears to actually respect the work of entertainment.

The Viper Room should be a good model to follow then... Most bars are cheesey little dumps and that aint the fault of any band...

So, what I'm saying, is that a professional band should absolutely not do business with dives and dumps that don't even make an effort to work with a band

Not a fan of The Viper Room personally. They do bring in name acts on key weekend nights and pay them but everyone else is pay to play. "You sell 150 tickets at $20 ea and then you can play here Sunday night."

Not my kind of gig. Nice sound and lighting though.

Paper Ive offered up all kinds of ideas for thinking out side of the box so that musicians get more pay. So I really dont know where you are coming from when you point that at me.

1. Get some business's to sponsor your gigs, pay you for advertising.

2. Build a fan base that will pay your fee instead of the bar.

This whole thread was aimed at the kind of places that I have played for years and gotten paid basically a premium compared to other bands in my area.

Yea if you play a bar its all about booze sales, how many people you can bring, but f**k thats what its all about from a money standpoint anyway isnt it, how many seats you can fill, the more you can fill consistently the more you should make. That doesnt matter whether your playing dives or coliseums, its all about numbers.

But, if you are going to be a weekend warrior like me, and play bars, and keep coming back, the bars have to see some sort of return for what your doing. The minute you forget that and dont draw people whether it be for goofy covers or your originals, the fewer gigs you will get.

I know it sucks, but I personally know the bar owners I deal with, and they are having a tough time, and cant give handouts to folks that dont understand how it works.

If you have some great alternative then please share it so others can try it.

Paper Ive offered up all kinds of ideas for thinking out side of the box so that musicians get more pay. So I really dont know where you are coming from when you point that at me.

Its not at you personally JW... I'm trying to illustrate a point. (And it shouldn't come down to an 'out of the box' idea) to get duly paid in accordance with market.

1. Get some business's to sponsor your gigs, pay you for advertising.

Why not just get a promoter ... That's what 'they' do, right

2. Build a fan base that will pay your fee instead of the bar.

Most local bands cant support and uphold a reliable "fan base" by themselves. (@ 200-300 max? .. I'm guessing) It takes a promoter, who can do the math and negotiate a reasonable Win/win with venues.

This whole thread was aimed at the kind of places that I have played for years and gotten paid basically a premium compared to other bands in my area.

I cant Argue that..except to say 600 dollars (for what your band produces and delivers) is just plain chump-change.... You get paid 600 bucks, cause you basically are telling the bar its okay to pay you 600 bucks.. My point is, you should get paid more, in alignment to what everybody else earns, accordingly.

You know whats best dude, but from where I'm viewing it, the bar scene is flat shameful. IMHO

I'd rather play in a dirt hole than make "Boss Hog" richer. lol

Well Paper how much are you getting paid these days to play music?

We take what we get cause my bandmates agreed to that level. Most places in my area are paying $150 to $300 a night. Plus in my case its not really about the money, but its nice to have a little extra pocket change. I consider myself a semi-pro player, in that I do get paid to do it, but my living doesnt depend on it.

So Paper how do you make more, get a promotor? Duh, why would anyone do that for you, and what do you think they are going to take off the top? 10-20-30-40%.

I talked to a booking agency and they took 30% to handle all of that for my band, so in the end we would normally make less money doing that than doing it ourselves.

Bringing 100 people into a place at 5 dollars is $500. I dont know how much playing you have actually done, but I doubt you will get many offers for much more than that.

Well Paper how much are you getting paid these days to play music?

You already know the answer to that. But I will save this thread, just in case it changes...

We take what we get cause my bandmates agreed to that level. Most places in my area are paying $150 to $300 a night. Plus in my case its not really about the money, but its nice to have a little extra pocket change. I consider myself a semi-pro player, in that I do get paid to do it, but my living doesnt depend on it.

See, I earnestly thought you were a Pro (Not semi-pro) , so I guess if you aren't selling yourself as a pro, then you get what the bar pays to semi-pros... I still believe you could get 1200.00 . In doing so, you'd be setting serious precedence and youd prolly get a page in American Music History...

So Paper how do you make more, get a promotor? Duh, why would anyone do that for you, and what do you think they are going to take off the top? 10-20-30-40%.

One gets a promoter to get 'promoted into a higher tier of opportunity, the likes of which no house band normally sees. ( What promoter do you know that wastes his time with a cheap tavern?) . Hey I'm not saying you are wrong... I get that maybe that's not the path you personally desire... But it doesn't change the truth about the bars. And the truth is , most of em want to purchases the services of a professional band for the low low price of free-ninety-free...

I talked to a booking agency and they took 30% to handle all of that for my band, so in the end we would normally make less money doing that than doing it ourselves.

I suppose technically you could do it all by your selves and really save some money... Heck... buy a bar!...problem solved

Bringing 100 people into a place at 5 dollars is $500. I dont know how much playing you have actually done, but I doubt you will get many offers for much more than that.

Actually the better bands where I live can draft out about 10 bucks at the door. Depends on events, etc The not so better ones go for about 5 (and I am talking about seriously undeveloped talents in many cases.

You may laugh at me all you want cause I'm not gigging (yet) ...but the worm shall turn someday