General Music Chat

I play out plenty . . . but my situation is different than most.

There are a multitude of reasons to play.

Not right or wrong, just different.

George you dont play in bars so this thread has nothing to do with what you do musically.

It really depends on why you play music. If you intend to make money playing music you must play what they expect to hear at the particular club. If you don't care about the money and just want to play your thing, there are plenty of those places too. It's nice to get paid but if you don't really need the money it's fun as hell to play your music and have people say they love you. It's all priorities.

I agree Jimmy, but what gets me is people saying Im going to play what I want dammit, and I dont care what a club owner says about it, Im gonna do it my way.


Bands like the Beatles and the Rolling Stones played covers of what people wanted to hear in clubs when they started.

Absolutely John, but that was 50 years ago. There are just as many clubs where you can play whatever you want as loud as you want and the manager won't say boo. You may or may not get paid, it really depends on how your band draws. If you want a guarantee you are now an employee. Hey that rhymed.

John - I'm with you and Johnny7 on this.
If you want paying gigs at clubs/bars, you have to play what the owner/audience wants. If you can pull in 100+ people every time you play ORIGINALS, more power to you, you are unlike the rest of us musical slobs who have to play what the general public wants to hear.
It's a business for the club owner, he needs bodies that pay cover charges and buy drinks (and food, if they have it).

Selling booze - most places I've been to recently don't have enough bar or wait staff to sell more. People are standing at the bar waiting for 5 minutes to get a beer. Waitress doesn't come around more than once a half hour because she's serving the whole place. The places that do have enough staff are making good money, though. A couple of places I go to the waitresses have wireless order pads, they plug in the drink (or food) order, and its transmitted to the bar (or kitchen), and after taking orders from 4 tables, she's back with rounds of drinks quickly.

At a good club, the manager will book your first gig on an off-night the first time, to see how many people you bring in - he knows how many customers he gets without a band that night - and judges whether you will bring in more people on a weekend night. He does the math - will he make a profit?
I can remember doing band auditions in the 80s, doing a set each with 2 other bands, on a Tuesday or Thursday night, and each band brings in 10 people. Guess what? None of us got hired for Saturday night!
Point is - nothing's changed.

I saw an ad a few days ago for a club looking for bands to book -I know this place, they have 2 rooms, and actually do book 2 bands a night. One side is a hard-rocking/thrashing place and I have seen bands pack the room while next door my friend's band, doing basiclaly 'classic rock oldies' plays to 10 people. The 2nd room is really set up for country music and line dancing, not even a stage for the band - yet the club repeatedly booked my friend's band, because they wanted someone/anyone in the second room and would pay $500 for a full night's work, too.
Would this place hire an originals band for either room? Questionable.

Not to be a buzzkill but it seems simply... know your clubs and what nights they cater to what you do. Square pegs and round holes don't work in much of anything in life.
The owner of the establishment is the final word. If he says it's Thursday dance night... probably not going to book a Metal act no matter how good you are.
Most cities have a club circuit for bands to follow and you know where you can play but also where it's not going to work. I don't see the debate in that. Use your head go where you're wanted!

Slacker, like I said. I do not dispute your points. If I am understanding correctly, your point revolves around the notion of 'do what the boss man wants, or hit the road' Fundamentally, I agree with that, and i dont begrudge a bar owner who has such dictates up front. I agree that if I cant deliver what he wants, I should just STFU and move on....

But here is MY point ... You did/do electronics for a living. I'm sure you have an hourly rate + cost. Thus you are fully qualified. So lets say you love to play Carl Perkins songs. And lets say the bar owner agrees to allow that playlist. But lets also say he insists that you rewire the juice to get to the sound system in the bar.... Finally, lets say that he'll let you have 50 % of the door as payment for the night.

Is that is acceptable? Please tell me that you can see the 50 different ways that the bar owner is being a jack ass...
Can you not see how accepting such terms would only perpetuate the problem for other musicians in the future...(at that bar)

In any case, that is the PROBLEM that I am Talking about. And BTW... I wouldn't take that job, unless he: A) let me take 100% of the door, + B) Paid me the electricians rate for the wiring job.

Obviously, in lieu of a wiring Job , the bar owner would rather have you sell his premium drinks for him...If he insists on this up front, if i were to accept the offer, I would agree to percent of the house tips (proportionate to sales percent i contributed) on top of the full door.

dog,

Your argument is about changing the agreement after the deal is made. Just how does that fit in with hiring with a fixed agreement. It is up to the musician to present what he wants before accepting the job. It is up to the bar owner to present his requirements before signing anything or going into a deal with the band.

You set the manner of payment, (The door, a percentage of the nights profit, or a flat out fee for your service. And then you don't pis$ and moan about how the club owner wants to screw you when you agreed to the conditions before hand. It is as simple as that.

This thread is so much like "Sock it to the rich" demands that free loaders make against those who provide the things that they get for" free". Actually nothing in this life is free.

When I do a repair job the guy knows the bench charge up front. I also stipulate that the customer pays for parts above and beyond the repair bench charge. No one is ever surprised at the cost, especially since they are notified in advance as soon as I find the cost of the parts + shipping charges. They are the employer and they decide if they want to have it fixed or not. If not I always give then the option of getting out of the bench charges by giving me the dead unit for parts. Everyone knows the specifics of the deal before going into it.

This is simply the way things are done in the business end of things. Only a fool walks into a deal when he hasn't made it clear what he expects from it. Most bar owners may be foolish for entering into the bar business since it is pretty difficult to make a profit but most are also smart enough to set the conditions when and where they apply. A bar that says play anything you want sets those conditions beforehand. Usually they have either seen your band or heard a CD of your band before hiring you these days. If you enter into an agreement and the bar owner changes it after you hire on and drag your gear into the club, you have a contract to get paid even if he decides that he doesn't want you. That's what contracts are an important part of selling a service, and that is what you are doing. You are selling your services and nothing more.

I was a gun for hire after playing steady with some bands for years. I played what I was asked to play and I did my best. I was never out of work as long as i was playing guitar for a living, and that was my income for quite a few years. The musicians knew what they were getting, and I knew what I was required to play. It all worked out great for me. If I didn't want to play for a particular group of musicians, I gave them two weeks notice to find someone else, or I found another lead player that could do the job. No complaints the whole time I was selling my services as a guitar player. When we played clubs we made sure we knew what we were in for before the deal was sealed. Contracts are a great way to gaurentee that there are no surprises at the end of the night.

Playing Bars is a losing prop for us .....
7 people in the band
Bar pays $150 + $ 25 in " beer " money.
Bar was full the whole night. We played until they turned the lights on and stopped serving.
End of the night they give us $ 200 and ask us back.
I was there from 7.30 - 2.30 - Good God f**k this !
Too Old to Rock n Roll

DG, what are you bitching about? You knew you would get 150 did you not? They even gave you a little extra? That in itself is rare.

Playing Bars is a losing prop for us .....
7 people in the band
Bar pays $150 + $ 25 in " beer " money.
Bar was full the whole night. We played until they turned the lights on and stopped serving.
End of the night they give us $ 200 and ask us back.
I was there from 7.30 - 2.30 - Good God f**k this !
Too Old to Rock n Roll

$200 is way too low for a whole band - even if you are a trio! A friend gets that for solo acoustic shows, 8-11pm!
$50/person per hour should be the going rate for a band at any small-medium size club. With 7 people in the band, you may need to lower that per-person number, though!

Hendrix, The Beatles, The Stones, Creedence, Clapton, Van Halen, Motley Crue, BB King, The Doors, SRV all did this for years. They played "must have" covers, kept people in the room and drinking all night, and bar owners loved them and asked them back. If making money playing bars is your goal (and it's not mine), like it or not this is your playbook.

The guys that say f**k em I'll play what I want will continue to get paid chump change and soon run out of places to play.

** The bar we were asked back over 10 years paid $500-$600 per night for a 4 piece band but you had to earn it. We sold a LOT of drinks.

DG, what are you bitching about? You knew you would get 150 did you not? They even gave you a little extra? That in itself is rare.

Yeah I hear you. We are just a young band with no following. It was nice to be asked to play and was a chance to make some new friends....
But it was so much work , man.
Guess I am getting old !

$200 is way too low for a whole band - even if you are a trio! A friend gets that for solo acoustic shows, 8-11pm!
$50/person per hour should be the going rate for a band at any small-medium size club. With 7 people in the band, you may need to lower that per-person number, though!

I like being in a big band though !
I think I can find us different gigs than bars
Its the hours and work load of the bar scene I dont like.

Even if every man makes $100 a night you're still working for not much more than minimum wage. Think about it. Load in time is usually 8pm, unless you have to bring the PA, then 6pm. Most bands play until 1:30 or so, then add another hour to tear down and load out. So now you've worked 6 1/2 to 8 1/2 hours minimum (not counting travel to and from the gig). Add in a three-hour rehearsal and you're up to 9 1/2 to 11 1/2 hours of work which translates to 8.50 to 10.50 an hour. If you are typical and spend $20 on drinks you're at minimum wage. You won't exactly get rich, so you better have a good reason to play music other than earning a living.