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#200886 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:36 pm
Hey, don't let the truth get in the way of good rant!


Yes, it is true that the wicked will suffer their decision, even if most of those quotes are given out of context. But what's the point in correcting a mocker who prefers lies?


Deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live




God's grace allows you to make the choice. I wish you'd choose life but it is your decision.






.

#200902 by Starfish Scott
Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:07 pm
uh-oh lol

#200915 by Kramerguy
Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:01 pm
as I understand it , the original 'old testament' was written by man somewhere around 300AD, long after jesus and all the hooplah..

Ever play that game where you sit in a large circle and one word gets whispered from person to person, and that the end person NEVER has the same word (usually not even close) as the person who started? Yea, some of us learned from that lesson, and the rest, well, they seem to believe anything someone said 1700 years ago.

#200921 by jimmydanger
Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:33 pm
From what I can tell the Old Testament was written between 800BC and 150BC.

#200922 by MikeTalbot
Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:57 pm
When people fuss about diatary rules God gave to the Jews thousands of years ago, it usally means they are angry with God for some reason.

That can be a good thing. I was angry with God. Then one day it dawned on me that I was angry with a real being. The God who created the universe. I got over that anger thing.

I don't always like my life, but as I said at my brothers memorial service, 'Though He may slay me....and slay my brother! Yet will I praise Him."

Talbot

#200925 by Mike Nobody
Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:08 am
MikeTalbot wrote:When people fuss about diatary rules God gave to the Jews thousands of years ago, it usally means they are angry with God for some reason.

That can be a good thing. I was angry with God. Then one day it dawned on me that I was angry with a real being. The God who created the universe. I got over that anger thing.

I don't always like my life, but as I said at my brothers memorial service, 'Though He may slay me....and slay my brother! Yet will I praise Him."

Talbot


Why were you angry with God BEFORE believing he was a real being?
Are you in the habit of trying not to piss off imaginary beings?

"That Easter Bunny is a real dick!
I didn't find any chocolate eggs anywhere!"

#200973 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:27 am
jimmydanger wrote:From what I can tell the Old Testament was written between 800BC and 150BC.



Bingo!



The bible is the most investigated document in history. I spent 4 months obsessively trying to prove it was baloney. That's how I came to faith and I dare you try, Mike. People much smarter than both of us have tried.

Check out what the Prophets said hundreds of years in advance. You will be amazed not only at the accuracy but the precise nature of what they said. Isaiah 44 talks about Cyrus of Persia 200 years before he was born and even gets his name right. Coincedence?

I used to think Nostrodamus was kinda cool, but he can't hold a candle to Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Zechariah, etc, etc, etc. when it comes to telling the future.

Did you know that the history of the world has already been written from beginning to end?

All the Prophets said (hundreds of years before Jesus) that the Jewish people would be scattered into all the world to be persecuted, hunted, & hated.

Isaiah 66 says (2,600 years ago) that the Jews would return to their land and the nation of Israel would be re-born in a single day. May 14, 1948 that happened.

Zechariah says that all nations of the earth would come against the city of Jerusalem. Don't know how much you've kept up with the U.N. but they are doing that today....though this is not yet the fulfillment of what is coming. Daniel speaks of a day when "knowledge will be increased and many people would go to and fro (world traveling would be common for everyone and everyone would have access to all knowledge). We can now talk to someone in China while standing on mountain in Utah on a cell phone...heck, we have more than all the knowledge of the Encyclopedia Brittanica available on a cell phone with a connection to the internet.

Daniel also says that a covenant would be made with "the many" over the status of Jerusalem and it would bring a false peace for 3 1/2 years. I think you'll see that at the end of the war that is coming.

Isaiah 53 was written about 600 years B.C. and yet describes Jesus as if he's standing in the room.

When I was an atheist and trying to prove the bible was crapola, these things astounded me. Believe me, I was trying very hard to prove it wrong. I certainly didn't want to consider the possibility that there was going to be a price for the way I was living.

I can honestly tell you that everything I was afraid of changing was destroying me. I had a will to become a better husband and father, but no power over my own sin. That changed in a single moment when I put my trust in Jesus. It hasn't always been easy but I've never had a regret.

We are living in days spoken of thousands of years ago. Only a decade ago much of what it said about "end times" was impossible. Now, I'm shocked at how accurate these impossibilities are.

I'm not telling you to go join a church. I hated religion as an atheist and I hate even more now. Religion is a system of manipulation and control, while faith is simply trusting that God's will for you is good. When you come to faith, you'll want to be around others who have faith and then going to a church makes sense....but going to church doesn't get anyone brownie points in heaven.

I don't think there is a lot of time left. I hope I'm wrong for everyone's sake.

#200974 by Mike Nobody
Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:59 am
yod wrote:
The bible is the most investigated document in history. I spent 4 months obsessively trying to prove it was baloney. That's how I came to faith and I dare you try, Mike. People much smarter than both of us have tried.



:roll:

There used to be plenty of atheists on YouTube who did a pretty fine job.
I don't think most of them were much smarter than we are.

Penn & Teller did the Bible on an episode of Bullshit, and showed how much baloney it was, pretty easily.
They're pretty smart guys.
But smarter than us?
I dunno.
Tough call on that.

I'm sorry you became so desperate as to cling to the Bible to get your act together.
But, that's typically how people convert, when they're most vulnerable.

I don't really feel like wasting my time lawyering-up on the Bible to make a point.
But, off the top of my head, I've got one word...dinosaurs.

Funny, how little is mentioned of them.

#201017 by DainNobody
Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:27 pm
Mike Nobody wrote:
yod wrote:
The bible is the most investigated document in history. I spent 4 months obsessively trying to prove it was baloney. That's how I came to faith and I dare you try, Mike. People much smarter than both of us have tried.



:roll:

There used to be plenty of atheists on YouTube who did a pretty fine job.
I don't think most of them were much smarter than we are.

Penn & Teller did the Bible on an episode of Bullshit, and showed how much baloney it was, pretty easily.
They're pretty smart guys.
But smarter than us?
I dunno.
Tough call on that.

I'm sorry you became so desperate as to cling to the Bible to get your act together.
But, that's typically how people convert, when they're most vulnerable.

I don't really feel like wasting my time lawyering-up on the Bible to make a point.
But, off the top of my head, I've got one word...dinosaurs.

Funny, how little is mentioned of them.
well at least you seem to have some morals and that's a good thing

#201018 by Kramerguy
Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:29 pm
I personally think religion is a crutch. religions people seem to feel that they cannot get thru life without a higher purpose and authority to answer to.

That's fine with me, I really don't care if someone wants to get on their knees, whisper to to wind, drink wine, etc.. Some great moral fabricss come out of religion, so really, I have no issue with it.

UNTIL.. people are made to suffer in the name of it. Until people shovel it down my throat, accuse me of being a bad person.. because I'm not THEIR religion.

I hate that christians view muslims the way they do- muslim religion is no more violent and intolerant than Christianity. The spanish inquisition more or less proves it, if not the crusades. Modern day is no different, just less bloodshed with god's name attached- now we call it "spreading democracy".

#201025 by DainNobody
Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:08 pm
I have met atheists and they seem to be every bit as moral if not more so, than many "Christians" I have encountered in life, I do believe the majority of atheists are in reality "humanists" that follow the Humanist Manifesto.. which brings up the question, if atheists do not feel obliged to appease a Supreme Being like God, then why do they adhere to a good moral lifestyle acknowledging the Golden Rule as well as church/temple/shrine attending folks .. maybe cause the religion of humanism looks at man as the god?

#201027 by Starfish Scott
Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:14 pm
Wow and I thought the politics was bad... :oops:

#201037 by Mike Nobody
Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:42 pm
Kramerguy wrote:I personally think religion is a crutch. religions people seem to feel that they cannot get thru life without a higher purpose and authority to answer to.

That's fine with me, I really don't care if someone wants to get on their knees, whisper to to wind, drink wine, etc.. Some great moral fabricss come out of religion, so really, I have no issue with it.

UNTIL.. people are made to suffer in the name of it. Until people shovel it down my throat, accuse me of being a bad person.. because I'm not THEIR religion.

I hate that christians view muslims the way they do- muslim religion is no more violent and intolerant than Christianity. The spanish inquisition more or less proves it, if not the crusades. Modern day is no different, just less bloodshed with god's name attached- now we call it "spreading democracy".


Muslims - Christians...all religions have their streak of fanaticism.

#201039 by Mike Nobody
Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:51 pm
Dane Ellis Allen wrote:I have met atheists and they seem to be every bit as moral if not more so, than many "Christians" I have encountered in life, I do believe the majority of atheists are in reality "humanists" that follow the Humanist Manifesto.. which brings up the question, if atheists do not feel obliged to appease a Supreme Being like God, then why do they adhere to a good moral lifestyle acknowledging the Golden Rule as well as church/temple/shrine attending folks .. maybe cause the religion of humanism looks at man as the god?


Brett Gurowitz, the singer from Bad Religion, doesn't like being called an atheist.
He prefers 'naturalist'.
'Atheist' doesn't really say anything about what a person believes in.
It's just the absence of a belief.
But, 'naturalist' says that everything derives from nature; how we think and feel as well as the physical world.
I think his definition would probably apply to most atheists, as being really 'naturalists'.
It doesn't view man as God.
It just views man as being a part of nature.
It shares some similarity to Buddhism, I think.
Maybe that's why I like Buddhism so much.

#201043 by DainNobody
Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:13 pm
Dane Ellis Allen wrote:I have met atheists and they seem to be every bit as moral if not more so, than many "Christians" I have encountered in life, I do believe the majority of atheists are in reality "humanists" that follow the Humanist Manifesto.. which brings up the question, if atheists do not feel obliged to appease a Supreme Being like God, then why do they adhere to a good moral lifestyle acknowledging the Golden Rule as well as church/temple/shrine attending folks .. maybe cause the religion of humanism looks at man as the god?

HUMANIST MANIFESTO I

First: Religious humanists regard the universe as self-existing and not created.

Second: Humanism believes that man is a part of nature and that he has emerged as the result of a continuous process.

Third: Holding an organic view of life, humanists find that the traditional dualism of mind and body must be rejected.

Fourth: Humanism recognizes that man's religious culture and civilization, as clearly depicted by anthropology and history, are the product of a gradual development due to his interaction with his natural environment and with his social heritage. The individual born into a particular culture is largely molded by that culture.

Fifth: Humanism asserts that the nature of the universe depicted by modern science makes unacceptable any supernatural or cosmic guarantees of human values. Obviously humanism does not deny the possibility of realities as yet undiscovered, but it does insist that the way to determine the existence and value of any and all realities is by means of intelligent inquiry and by the assessment of their relations to human needs. Religion must formulate its hopes and plans in the light of the scientific spirit and method.

Sixth: We are convinced that the time has passed for theism, deism, modernism, and the several varieties of "new thought."

Seventh: Religion consists of those actions, purposes, and experiences which are humanly significant. Nothing human is alien to the religious. It includes labor, art, science, philosophy, love, friendship, recreation-all that is in its degree expressive of intelligently satisfying human living. The distinction between the sacred and the secular can no longer be maintained.

Eighth: Religious Humanism considers the complete realization of human personality to be the end of man's life and seeks its development and fulfillment in the here and now. This is the explanation of the humanist's social passion.

Ninth: In the place of the old attitudes involved in worship and prayer the humanist finds his religious emotions expressed in a heightened sense of personal life and in a co-operative effort to promote social well-being.

Tenth: It follows that there will be no uniquely religious emotions and attitudes of the kind hitherto associated with belief in the supernatural.

Eleventh: Man will learn to face the crises of life in terms of his knowledge of their naturalness and probability. Reasonable and manly attitudes will be fostered by education and supported by custom. We assume that humanism will take the path of social and mental hygiene and discourage sentimental and unreal hopes and wishful thinking.

Twelfth: Believing that religion must work increasingly for joy in living, religious humanists aim to foster the creative in man and to encourage achievements that add to the satisfactions of life.

Thirteenth: Religious humanism maintains that all associations and institutions exist for the fulfillment of human life. The intelligent evaluation, transformation, control, and direction of such associations and institutions with a view to the enhancement of human life is the purpose and program of humanism. Certainly religious institutions, their ritualistic forms ecclesiastical methods, and communal activities must be reconstituted as rapidly as experience allows, in order to function effectively in the modern world.

Fourteenth: The humanists are firmly convinced that existing acquisitive and profit-motivated society has shown itself to be inadequate and that a radical change in methods, controls, and motives must be established to the end that the equitable distribution of the means of life are possible. The goal of humanism is a free and universal society in which people voluntarily and intelligently co-operate for the common good. Humanists demand a shared life in a shared world.

Fifteenth: We assert that humanism will: (a) affirm life rather than deny it; (b)seek to elicit the possibilities of life not flee from it; and (c) endeavor to establish the conditions of a satisfactory life for all, not merely for a few. By this positive morale and intention humanism will be guided, and from this perspective and alignment the techniques and efforts of humanism will flow.

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