General Music Chat

It doesn't matter.

"It's all his creation, every single piece" just ask him, he says as much. lol
But the song shoe is on the other foot now.

Panic time? Maybe..for him.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, you take a good long listen to what's offered on his soundclick site. Did our stuff sound a little different?
"There's a good reason for that".

FYI JW Coverdale, I played all guitar, all bass and did all vocals for that tune, including the vocal melody. (Which he cut in half like a drunk magician.)

He played keys, programmed the percussion, wrote the lyrics/stuffed them down my throat. Oh and he mixed and mastered, but he broke down like he's done before. I just don't know if it was intentional or unintentional.

I do know that we had good copy when I left it and then he became incommunicado for a week.. He also didn't bother to let me listen to the final. He just sent me a copy and posted.

"Stick the fork in him, because he's done".

JW, I hope you get to encounter this at some point just so you know to what I am referring to. It's a slap in the head that you won't quite forget.

I guarantee you will not like it and if you don't wanna read, go listen to the audio cassette.

Capt I have had the same thing happen a couple of times, I just dont remember it making me feel the way you are making it out to be.

Hell I did a guitar line for a commercial one time signed the damn waivers and then heard the thing on the radio and they replaced my guitar with keys.

The spec deal one of my bands did back in the early 80s, they gave me the guitar to play and amp and set if for me.

Been there done that, and got the tee-shirt.

Yeah well it was a partnership.

But I knew this tune was going to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

From the beginning I thought it sounded like PF. (I don't know why, I just did.)

He's telling me that's it's Bowie and that the people that he played it for said Bowie as well.

I don't really care as in you don't really know what it is until it's done.
(And then HANDS OFF)
And if I got paid, it would have been better because then I'd have had something instead of a nothing that's left.

I had a guy offer to remaster it for free. You know what I said?
NO!!!
That part of this is over, move over "bacon" time for something meatier, namely "Sizzlean".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6801d-ll_Q

Besides the only tune I play out from this cavalcade of whimsy is "Invisible Light" and if you think he wrote all of that or even most of it, I don't know what to say to you.

I just chuckle. Plenty of time for you to dog my next piece..and you can rest assure that one is not a "Les-tard construct" considering we are dumping the keys portion of the show in it's entirety.

Keys make a great background but not a deal breaker if you don't use them, especially if it's causing trouble.

Your mom was a partnership

And if she cut out most of what I consider good in the tune I was working on, I'd dump that bitch too.

Zipper, you PUI or what's your gripe?

"With my permission" is the magic phrase that allows other musicians input while retaining mutual respect on a project. I don't walk and chew gum very well and I often focus deeply on one aspect of a song while overlooking another. Allowing a musician or skilled engineer to dial-in the guitar tone while I play has worked in the past and I will probably use it in the future. If I listen back and don't like the tone they chose, I just do another take.

I often do the same with drums and "with their permission" dial in the sound and mic placement for snare, hi-hat, and kick drum. I guess I just have an ear for it and drummers generally appreciate the input and we get good results. This sort of creative cooperation does require checking egos at the door and always putting the music first. Not everyone can do that.

If I may refer to a master musician (with your permission..) : Paul McCartney:

From what I have read, He was/Is basically an asshole when it came/comes to the creative process. But, Anybody who's a creator of songs, will understand this, because:

1) Its painful to parlay one's vision and ideas over to other ego-maniacal persons...who cant stand the idea of being told what to do... (especially if they didn't think up the brilliant vision or idea themselves. There is such jealousy, resentment or plain gnashing of teeth with that.)

2)Initial Ideas are subject to becoming railroaded at the slightest provocation of allowable artistic license by others. Its a fact. Every new chef you bring into the kitchen, diminishes the initial orientation of the entree, exponentially. Having said that, it is extremely critical for supporting co-authors of a given song, to take back seat and take full instruction from the primary author. (If one wishes to preserve the original idea).

In fairness, a song writer should understand that a slip of the musical pen, warrants extreme taunting and ostrcization by peers and bandmates.

And if she cut out most of what I consider good in the tune I was working on, I'd dump that bitch too.

Zipper, you PUI or what's your gripe?

No I was just trying to defrost the room.
If it offended you, sorry. Just warn first before you punch.

You owe it to the serious music you're working on not to make your current musical construct an unmitigated farce, intentional or unintentional.

You owe it to the people you work with to keep everyone in the loop, that way no one is surprised at "what the cat just threw up out back on the porch".

"It's all good until you kill your own music from within your own enclave".

Then you know it's time to make a change...producer, co-writer, musician, vocalist, bassist, guitarist, drummer...it doesn't matter. Someone isn't on track and needs to go do something else.

Whatever stops you from doing what you do, needs to go.
Remove the problem, reset and then continue the best you can.

If you ignore a major issue, it will come back to haunt you again and with more vigor.

and the acronym PF equates to?

And if she cut out most of what I consider good in the tune I was working on, I'd dump that bitch too.

Zipper, you PUI or what's your gripe?

No I was just trying to defrost the room.
If it offended you, sorry. Just warn first before you punch.

lol Zipper, relax..

I'm the equivalent of frozen cat barf at the moment because they think I threw him to the wolves. I get it.. lol

But I'm not really all that caring.

I was thinking about this during Friday's events.

Even if he manged to pull off a workable copy out of the low for "C+G", that would have been "it" anyway.

You don't really think I'd tolerate someone carving the harmony off of something I did and liked, do you? Especially if I wasn't informed of the new version of crap? bwahahahahahhahaaha no.

GET A NEW DROID...if you don't like the way this one writes.

(flipping the world the metal finger) lol

Oh yea I forgot, he wrote it all..

(spits) It's ok, my Sonar 6 is up and running. I hate this part but I guess it's what you have to do if you don't like surprises. (shrug)

And I do HATE surprises on "any given Sunday"....

PS: I'm not answering you Dane. No reason to. If you read a little, you'll get it. If not, then it's really not a thang anyway.

I don't think you threw anyone to the wolves. But then, I don't care ( at all ) about la. Never interacted with him whatsoever - seen the name pop up here once in awhile.
When you put up the poll I thought it was an "in general" question.
If things that I had done or wanted done had been changed on me without any communication, and it was just a non pro partnership, I would have come to them with a white-hot sword of the way it "was gonna be"

popcorn fart?

why are you mad at me Scott? all I did was answer your question honestly and with tact.. guess it is not what you wanted to hear, so now I am going to be your punching bag?

Les is a really good keys player.

But he's done something like this before, as in we almost killed each other during "IL" because he wanted to "scalp" the guitar tone from that as well.
(I find it oddly amusing that he mentioned MINT when I think we both knew it was IL he was referring to)

Contrary to popular belief, I never go to anyone I ever wrote with and told them "this is the way it's going to be" with the exception of the guitar tone on "Invisible Light".
And Les still f*cked with the tone of that considering I have the version we had after we initially finished that tune AND IT WAS HEAVIER.

If you could confine him to what he produces after the initial writing/recording is done, he'd be golden. Unfortunately he gets anxious or ? and starts performing unneeded brain surgery etc on the piece du jour.
Sometimes he does that while he's mastering or mixing.

Basically if you can't see or hear what he's doing, you have to hope for the best.

And this thread was IN GENERAL, it was "DANE" that brought this to be CHAPTER 2 of this ugly ass saga.

I wonder what he thinks I did to Lester as well. (Plenty of mfers think Les got the short end of the stick and I'm a little shocked to say the least.)

Yeah "Non-Pro Partnership" is a great way to say it.
I'd love to have him actually play keys, but no more mixing or mastering ever. How could I ever trust him when I have no idea what he's doing and it evidently wasn't up for a vote, nor discussion.
(Weird part is while we were writing, it's was all good communication but soon as we hit the mastering portion, communication OVER.)

Nah he's not all that and neither am I. We're very different.
And we're going in different directions...and I'd rather have it that way than show up and find out he "gutted" another tune, good, bad or indiscriminate.

If this had been another "IL" and he did this, it could have gotten quite serious. This tune was merely a shitty wake up call for me, as in "something has to change"... and it did. No one got hurt and we parted ways as amiable as we could under the circumstances at hand.

The best part was that he almost got me to do an electronica/dance type piece called "Integration Transformation" at the end.

I thought we were going to alternate as to what we would flesh out next, but I was incorrect. It's his computer, so evidently it's all his way or the highway.

I choose the road because I don't do "my way or the highway" well at all.
Never did and never will take to that type of bullshit.

You better be 10ft tall to give me an ultimatum else it's "go time".

what the hell Scott? I started this? you asked a hypothetical question and I gave you an answer.. it was not stabbing anybody in the back