General Music Chat

I didn't have a question Glenny. I answered one. Zip wanted to know what defined a gun nut. I told him. Are you that stupid that you can't follow a conversation?

Every day 32 people are killed by guns in America.

It is estimated there are 300 million guns in this country.

300,000 people bought guns on Black Friday this year.

One person tried to blow up a plane using a shoe bomb and now everyone must remove their shoes before boarding a plane. There have been 16 of these mass shootings in the past 5 years yet gun laws have actually become more lax.

The NRA's powerful lobby in Washington prevents any meaningful discussion of this problem. The ban on assault-style weapons laws expired and politicians are afraid to make a stand for fear of losing seats in Congress. This must change. I sent my lawmakers e-mails demanding change. I expect sweeping new laws to result.

If making new laws will stop criminals from using guns, then I'm all for it!!!!

And if that works, we should also make laws against drug usage, bank robbery, murder, and theft.

That will fix it.

Come on Yod, of course you can never prevent murders (or any of the other red herrings you tried to use). But you can help prevent the extreme mass killings by banning semi-automatic weapons. The type of weapon used in this atrocity was exactly that: a semi-automatic assault rifle that was banned until the law expired. I challenge you to make a meaningful suggestion to prevent these tragedies. But I don't expect one; you are happy just to parrot the NRA talking points. This makes you part of the problem.

I'm open to the idea of psych evaluations. It could open a big scary bag of worms, but I would consider it.
I believe it's already illegal to posses a firearm if you've been convicted of a felony - so... there are already examples of laws trumping the 2nd amendment.

I think it's mostly an issue of personal responsibility, and a byproduct of an insulated society - most Americans have no experience with the grizzly world of nature and its life and death realities.
Even those that have had the experiences sometimes drift away from the impact over time.

I'm talking about killing for food. When you learn what it feels like to kill, and to take it further, you get even more personal with the animal.
There's a lot of blood on your arms, you're handling guts, you are cutting hide and flesh - you see the lightless eyes of the dead.

Processing plant does it all for ya now.

There's damned few adults to teach any of that now. There's a huge demographic of idiots who I wouldn't trust to use a filet knife, so maybe you're right.
Ban everything, it's over...

Life is a beautiful horror show.
I don't understand anything anymore...

I don't either Zip. As I've grown older I have less and less patience for stupidity. The "I love humanity but hate people" paradox. I could never condone what this guy did for any reason, but maybe having guns in the house made it too easy for him to "snap"; after killing his mother, he knew he was not going to live and decided to create as much pain and horror as he felt. Our society is sick and more divided than ever. I'm losing hope.

I don't either Zip. As I've grown older I have less and less patience for stupidity. The "I love humanity but hate people" paradox..... Our society is sick and more divided than ever. I'm losing hope.

Sh!t, I lost "hope" decades ago.
But, one thing to remember...
No matter how bad things are, they're always going to get a Helluva lot worse.

I don't either Zip. As I've grown older I have less and less patience for stupidity. The "I love humanity but hate people" paradox. I could never condone what this guy did for any reason, but maybe having guns in the house made it too easy for him to "snap"; after killing his mother, he knew he was not going to live and decided to create as much pain and horror as he felt. Our society is sick and more divided than ever. I'm losing hope.

Am I do damned stupid to think that maybe a normal human reaction would be "I killed my mother. ...oh god, what have I done?", then shoots himself ?

Why? "WHY the f-ck!" would anyone do what he did????
Little kids?

Yes - the guns made it expedient.
Yes they made it possible.
That's just a fact.
I've always been for the right to bear arms - but it's a fact.

I'm gonna tell you guys something.
I met Dylan Klebold a couple times - I was staying with my future fiancé at one her friends houses.
Her son knew them guys. They were the semi hacker / computer gamer type.
I like to think I'm fairly perceptive but nothing about him set off any internal alarms or anything.

We lived in Aurora by the time columbine went down.
It was a shock to say the least.
But that shock passed and life went on.

Then recently the aurora movie theatre thing happened.
I think I was even more shocked at that one - we went to that theatre all the time. That was basically my neighborhood.
I could walk to the thing in 30 to 40 minutes - which any of you that live in a big metro area know, that's essentially in your back yard.
As soon as I heard about it, I called the ex in a semi panic...

Again, the shock eventually subsided... Life goes on.

But this last one...
Can you tell that I'm all over the place trying to reconcile this in my brain??

My immediate thoughts were "they're going to use this to take away guns".

But it continues to twist and turn in my head and I don't know how to reconcile it.

This one. It's just too much.

I didn't have a question Glenny. I answered one. Zip wanted to know what defined a gun nut. I told him. Are you that stupid that you can't follow a conversation?

Every day 32 people are killed by guns in America.

It is estimated there are 300 million guns in this country.

300,000 people bought guns on Black Friday this year.

One person tried to blow up a plane using a shoe bomb and now everyone must remove their shoes before boarding a plane. There have been 16 of these mass shootings in the past 5 years yet gun laws have actually become more lax.

The NRA's powerful lobby in Washington prevents any meaningful discussion of this problem. The ban on assault-style weapons laws expired and politicians are afraid to make a stand for fear of losing seats in Congress. This must change. I sent my lawmakers e-mails demanding change. I expect sweeping new laws to result.

Drawing logical parallells:

Legalize Weed: (EVeryone should have the right to consume weed, even if they are inclined with addictive personalities)
Legalize Guns: (EVeryone should have the right to own a gun, even if they are inclined with personality disorders)
Legalize Alchohol (Everyone should have the right to consume alchohol, even if they are inclined to stay impaired)

In this scenario, an addictive personality, with disorder, can consume chemistry altering products, and possess a weapon at will. Society must rely entirely on the discretion of the individual to ensure safety and well being of its members.


Reverse the aforementioned laws:
Illegal Weed: (EVeryone does not have the right to consume weed. Moot: f they are inclined with addictive personalities)
Illegal Guns: (EVeryone does not have the right to own a gun. Moot if they are inclined with personality disorders)
Illegal Alchohol (Everyone does not have the right to consume alchohol. Moot: if they are inclined to stay impaired)


In this scenario, an addictive personality, with disorder, is not allowed to consume chemistry altering products, and possess a weapon at will. Society need not rely entirely on the discretion of the individual to ensure safety and well being of its members. However: Despite the laws, there is always a person who will still consume chemistry altering products, and possess a weapon at will. (We associate them as criminals)

THIRD SCENARIO:
Legalize Weed: (People should have the right to consume weed, but should be responsible to avoid addictive behaviors)
Legalize Guns: (People should have the right to own a gun, but should be screened and denied the right if they have certain mental disorders...)
Legalize Alchohol (People should have the right to consume alcohol, but only as adults (aka Not minors )

I think the third scenario satisfies more people than the other two. At no time, should the moral argument enter the issue. Save that for churches to decide how their congrgations should behave (within the law)

I didn't have a question Glenny. I answered one. Zip wanted to know what defined a gun nut. I told him. Are you that stupid that you can't follow a conversation?

Every day 32 people are killed by guns in America.

It is estimated there are 300 million guns in this country.

300,000 people bought guns on Black Friday this year.

One person tried to blow up a plane using a shoe bomb and now everyone must remove their shoes before boarding a plane. There have been 16 of these mass shootings in the past 5 years yet gun laws have actually become more lax.

The NRA's powerful lobby in Washington prevents any meaningful discussion of this problem. The ban on assault-style weapons laws expired and politicians are afraid to make a stand for fear of losing seats in Congress. This must change. I sent my lawmakers e-mails demanding change. I expect sweeping new laws to result.

I love PISSING you off Jimmy. You are a decent guy, just lit up with a million miles of political bullshit. I want you to try and think outside of all the bull you are hearing. Just for once. YOUR president has 2 major problems to open up MY country to absolute destruction and total control.
First he has to destroy the wealthy. Money is power.
2nd he has to eliminate ALL guns in America. Guns are more powerful than money.
With sequestration the military is going to be decimated.
Don't worry Jimmy, all those guns in private hands actually protect you far more than you know. Try thinking outside the box just a bit instead of just listening to to the crap that your mainstream media spews. Come on you keep telling us all how much smarter you are.... Thanks for the input any way.

I don't either Zip. As I've grown older I have less and less patience for stupidity. The "I love humanity but hate people" paradox. I could never condone what this guy did for any reason, but maybe having guns in the house made it too easy for him to "snap"; after killing his mother, he knew he was not going to live and decided to create as much pain and horror as he felt. Our society is sick and more divided than ever. I'm losing hope.

Am I do damned stupid to think that maybe a normal human reaction would be "I killed my mother. ...oh god, what have I done?", then shoots himself ?

Why? "WHY the f-ck!" would anyone do what he did????
Little kids?

Yes - the guns made it expedient.
Yes they made it possible.
That's just a fact.
I've always been for the right to bear arms - but it's a fact.

I'm gonna tell you guys something.
I met Dylan Klebold a couple times - I was staying with my future fiancé at one her friends houses.
Her son knew them guys. They were the semi hacker / computer gamer type.
I like to think I'm fairly perceptive but nothing about him set off any internal alarms or anything.

Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric Harris, 18, had a plan. Obsessed with violent video games and paramilitary techniques, they spent a year collecting an arsenal of semiautomatic guns and homemade bombs with which to perpetrate a crime that the nation would never forget.

A US psychiatrist named Jerald Block has differed with the FBI opinion of psychopathology and depression, arguing that the killers' actions are not well explained by such diagnoses. Rather, he states that Klebold and Harris were immersed in video games and that their lives were most gratifying while playing in a virtual world.

Both Harris and Klebold were fans of video games such as Doom and Wolfenstein 3D. Harris often created levels for Doom that were widely distributed; these can still be found on the Internet as the Harris levels. Rumors that the layout of these levels resembled that of Columbine High School circulated, but appear to be untrue.[47] Harris spent a great deal of time creating another large mod, named Tier, calling it his "life's work."[48] The mod was uploaded to the Columbine school computer and to AOL shortly before the attack, but appears to have been lost. One researcher argued that it is almost certain the Tier mod included a mock-up of Columbine High School.

Following their January 1998 arrest for theft, the computer access available to both youths was restricted. Jerald Block believes that personal anger which was initially projected into video games was now unleashed into the real world. In addition, the restriction of access to computers opened up substantial amounts of idle time that would have otherwise gone towards their online activities. Block stated Harris and Klebold increasingly used this free time time to express their anger, with their antisocial tendencies likewise increasing. This, in turn, generated further restrictions. Ultimately, after the 1998 arrest and their being banned from personal computer access for approximately one month, the two teens became homicidal and began documenting plans to attack the school. Block writes that the plan to attack the school first appears in Klebold's writings, and that Klebold may himself have considered using a different partner-in-crime than Harris. This person's name was redacted from Klebold's journal by police.

You don't piss me off Glenny, just make me feel very sad for you. You are not right.

Come on Yod, of course you can never prevent murders (or any of the other red herrings you tried to use). But you can help prevent the extreme mass killings by banning semi-automatic weapons. The type of weapon used in this atrocity was exactly that: a semi-automatic assault rifle that was banned until the law expired. I challenge you to make a meaningful suggestion to prevent these tragedies. But I don't expect one; you are happy just to parrot the NRA talking points. This makes you part of the problem.

I can build a fully automatic weapon in about one hour...per All I need are the parts, which I can have smuggled in very easily. What exactly is the rave about banning the weapon? Its not gonna stop me...

Laws are to protect the society that upholds them. The strength of that society is only as good as the weakest person, who tries to uphold the laws... If that person buckles...game over....

The 'problem' is not tool...its the user of the tool...According to Gun ban Logic, its like saying if you make an accounting mistake, then you need to ban Excel.

How about looking at the accountants? HOw about looking at the shooters. Ban those MFs..They are the ones causing the grief.

I don't either Zip. As I've grown older I have less and less patience for stupidity. The "I love humanity but hate people" paradox. I could never condone what this guy did for any reason, but maybe having guns in the house made it too easy for him to "snap"; after killing his mother, he knew he was not going to live and decided to create as much pain and horror as he felt. Our society is sick and more divided than ever. I'm losing hope.

Am I do damned stupid to think that maybe a normal human reaction would be "I killed my mother. ...oh god, what have I done?", then shoots himself ?

Why? "WHY the f-ck!" would anyone do what he did????
Little kids?

Yes - the guns made it expedient.
Yes they made it possible.
That's just a fact.
I've always been for the right to bear arms - but it's a fact.

I'm gonna tell you guys something.
I met Dylan Klebold a couple times - I was staying with my future fiancé at one her friends houses.
Her son knew them guys. They were the semi hacker / computer gamer type.
I like to think I'm fairly perceptive but nothing about him set off any internal alarms or anything.

Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric Harris, 18, had a plan. Obsessed with violent video games and paramilitary techniques, they spent a year collecting an arsenal of semiautomatic guns and homemade bombs with which to perpetrate a crime that the nation would never forget.

A US psychiatrist named Jerald Block has differed with the FBI opinion of psychopathology and depression, arguing that the killers' actions are not well explained by such diagnoses. Rather, he states that Klebold and Harris were immersed in video games and that their lives were most gratifying while playing in a virtual world.

Both Harris and Klebold were fans of video games such as Doom and Wolfenstein 3D. Harris often created levels for Doom that were widely distributed; these can still be found on the Internet as the Harris levels. Rumors that the layout of these levels resembled that of Columbine High School circulated, but appear to be untrue.[47] Harris spent a great deal of time creating another large mod, named Tier, calling it his "life's work."[48] The mod was uploaded to the Columbine school computer and to AOL shortly before the attack, but appears to have been lost. One researcher argued that it is almost certain the Tier mod included a mock-up of Columbine High School.

Following their January 1998 arrest for theft, the computer access available to both youths was restricted. Jerald Block believes that personal anger which was initially projected into video games was now unleashed into the real world. In addition, the restriction of access to computers opened up substantial amounts of idle time that would have otherwise gone towards their online activities. Block stated Harris and Klebold increasingly used this free time time to express their anger, with their antisocial tendencies likewise increasing. This, in turn, generated further restrictions. Ultimately, after the 1998 arrest and their being banned from personal computer access for approximately one month, the two teens became homicidal and began documenting plans to attack the school. Block writes that the plan to attack the school first appears in Klebold's writings, and that Klebold may himself have considered using a different partner-in-crime than Harris. This person's name was redacted from Klebold's journal by police.

Ban Video Games? Well then lets also ban NFL Football, and while were on it, lets ban WWW Wrestling, Boxing, STock Car racing, Roller Derby, Midget tossing and any other number of activities deemed influential. Soory vinny but the video games argument holds absolutely no water...
Thos kids committed the crimes they committed becuase they were fukd up to begin with. They were EPIC FAILURES from the womb, on...