This is a MUSIC forum. Irrelevant or disrespectful posts/topics will be removed by Admin. Please report any forum spam or inappropriate posts HERE.

All users can post to this forum on general music topics.

Moderators: bandmixmod1, jimmy990, spikedace

IS IT BULLSHEET

0
N/A
1
100%

#196867 by PaperDog
Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:03 pm
Okay heres a question then...

What makes it a rule that to make money, you have to gig? WHen I was young, I bought craploads of beatles records, Led Zepplin records, and Cream... But I never saw these guys gig in real life. I'm willing to bet its the same for many others here.

APparently, the records sold anyway... So maybe gigs are smaller part than we realize. In fact,

I bet you that any one of you could take your best cds and if you paid off (payola) a radio station, to pump your best song , then your CD sales would sky rocket. If you did it again in the next town, likewise and so on... I bet you could push your CD all the way through to show up in the top 100 charts, nationally and eventually break the international circuit.

Then I bet you'd get asked to gig, but if yo declined to gig, you's still sell your CDs

#196868 by J-HALEY
Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:12 pm
PaperDog wrote:Okay heres a question then...

What makes it a rule that to make money, you have to gig? WHen I was young, I bought craploads of beatles records, Led Zepplin records, and Cream... But I never saw these guys gig in real life. I'm willing to bet its the same for many others here.

APparently, the records sold anyway... So maybe gigs are smaller part than we realize. In fact,

I bet you that any one of you could take your best cds and if you paid off (payola) a radio station, to pump your best song , then your CD sales would sky rocket. If you did it again in the next town, likewise and so on... I bet you could push your CD all the way through to show up in the top 100 charts, nationally and eventually break the international circuit.

Then I bet you'd get asked to gig, but if yo declined to gig, you's still sell your CDs


Unfortunately the music biz has changed a LOT since you and I were kids. The record companys have always been CROOKED as hell. They use to promote you and invest in you if they thought you had something musically they could package and sell. As a result of their refusal to change with the times they are now struggling to survive. Our drummer was in a band that toured the world and had a record company behind them. The record company invested and gave them 350K as their recording budget. The band broke up and they are still getting royalties he got a 5 figure royalty check some time back. That was in the early 90's and times have changed even since then.

#196870 by Mike Nobody
Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:29 pm
J-HALEY wrote:
PaperDog wrote:Okay heres a question then...

What makes it a rule that to make money, you have to gig? WHen I was young, I bought craploads of beatles records, Led Zepplin records, and Cream... But I never saw these guys gig in real life. I'm willing to bet its the same for many others here.

APparently, the records sold anyway... So maybe gigs are smaller part than we realize. In fact,

I bet you that any one of you could take your best cds and if you paid off (payola) a radio station, to pump your best song , then your CD sales would sky rocket. If you did it again in the next town, likewise and so on... I bet you could push your CD all the way through to show up in the top 100 charts, nationally and eventually break the international circuit.

Then I bet you'd get asked to gig, but if yo declined to gig, you's still sell your CDs


Unfortunately the music biz has changed a LOT since you and I were kids. The record companys have always been CROOKED as hell. They use to promote you and invest in you if they thought you had something musically they could package and sell. As a result of their refusal to change with the times they are now struggling to survive. Our drummer was in a band that toured the world and had a record company behind them. The record company invested and gave them 350K as their recording budget. The band broke up and they are still getting royalties he got a 5 figure royalty check some time back. That was in the early 90's and times have changed even since then.


STEVE ALBINI. The Problem with Music
http://people.virginia.edu/~jrw3k/mediamatters/readings/cult_crit/Albini_The.Problem.With.Music.pdf

Some of your friends are probably already this f*cked.

#196883 by PaperDog
Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:42 pm
Mike Nobody wrote:
J-HALEY wrote:
PaperDog wrote:Okay heres a question then...

What makes it a rule that to make money, you have to gig? WHen I was young, I bought craploads of beatles records, Led Zepplin records, and Cream... But I never saw these guys gig in real life. I'm willing to bet its the same for many others here.

APparently, the records sold anyway... So maybe gigs are smaller part than we realize. In fact,

I bet you that any one of you could take your best cds and if you paid off (payola) a radio station, to pump your best song , then your CD sales would sky rocket. If you did it again in the next town, likewise and so on... I bet you could push your CD all the way through to show up in the top 100 charts, nationally and eventually break the international circuit.

Then I bet you'd get asked to gig, but if yo declined to gig, you's still sell your CDs


Unfortunately the music biz has changed a LOT since you and I were kids. The record companys have always been CROOKED as hell. They use to promote you and invest in you if they thought you had something musically they could package and sell. As a result of their refusal to change with the times they are now struggling to survive. Our drummer was in a band that toured the world and had a record company behind them. The record company invested and gave them 350K as their recording budget. The band broke up and they are still getting royalties he got a 5 figure royalty check some time back. That was in the early 90's and times have changed even since then.


STEVE ALBINI. The Problem with Music
http://people.virginia.edu/~jrw3k/mediamatters/readings/cult_crit/Albini_The.Problem.With.Music.pdf

Some of your friends are probably already this f*cked.


excellent info Thanks Mike!

#196887 by GuitarMikeB
Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:54 pm
Yeah, it's a different world.
Record companies paid the bands to make records, then sponsor tours (tours were rarely money makers in the 60s) to sell more records.
Tours these days are sponsored by non-music corporations.
Of the musicians I know, one makes his living doing music (or at least he was) - giving music lessons, doing solo shows, and he was also playing bass in a friend's band (they lost their drummer because of heart issues and haven't played together for a year).
Everyone else does it because they WANT to play music. Playing in a cover/tribute band (or doing occasional originals, but not ALL originals) will make you some cash, but not a living.
The t-shirt idea is a good one, as said you need to come up with a catchy design.

#196892 by jimmydanger
Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:01 pm
Don't forget, if and when you get signed by a record company, that money they "give" you to do your recording must be paid back in full before you ever see dime one of royalties.

#196902 by Mike Nobody
Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:34 pm
jimmydanger wrote:Don't forget, if and when you get signed by a record company, that money they "give" you to do your recording must be paid back in full before you ever see dime one of royalties.


Record companies "give" to you like loan sharks do...with higher interest! :lol:

#196916 by MikeTalbot
Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:25 am
Geeze guys - where's the passion? Don't you have a song you think is so good, perhaps important even, that you shoot for the gold ring?

i've been kicked in the ass so many times I've started to like it. Mocked by bar band players, trimmed by a cheesy manager, played for peanuts, screwed so many times it's like throwing a vienna sausage down Hollywood Boulevard; the whole nine yards.

Yeah, you probably won't make it. But if you are still breathing you are still in the running. If you want to be.

Now - as I sink back into despair... :wink:

Talbot

#196924 by PaperDog
Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:55 am
MikeTalbot wrote:Geeze guys - where's the passion? Don't you have a song you think is so good, perhaps important even, that you shoot for the gold ring?

i've been kicked in the ass so many times I've started to like it. Mocked by bar band players, trimmed by a cheesy manager, played for peanuts, screwed so many times it's like throwing a vienna sausage down Hollywood Boulevard; the whole nine yards.

Yeah, you probably won't make it. But if you are still breathing you are still in the running. If you want to be.

Now - as I sink back into despair... :wink:

Talbot


Way too Funny... :lol: I know what you mean about the hot-dog down the halllway ...

As for that Hit-Song, goin for the gold. I am pretty convinced that the songs we all write aren't the problem. AFter reading that PDF that Mike shared, my suspicions were confirmed... There is absolutely and unequivocally no support for musicians anymore, anywhere, anyhow. Mike if you had the support system that say Led Zepplin enjoyed, your songs would be on the charts.

I still believe its the marketers, who killed it all. First off, its not the singing canary that they want. Its the Lady Gaga they want. She sells sex, which in turn sells product. Marketers don't really give a sh*t about song-writing. They care about catchy jingles.

#196946 by J-HALEY
Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:30 am
Grant, have you seen the singer song writer competition at GC? I think you should submit your favorite song! When I first came to this thread after reading the title I thought you were asking whether or not you should pay a company to mass produce your cd's. Now that I am understanding your point and I am someone that has tried to make it in the biz and had my heart broken. My advise knowing you is, you have written the songs you also have some decent recordings. You can do ANYTHING that LEACH of a company can do and prolly more efficiently! IMO you are already doing the things that are necessary and on your way to getting your songs out there. So as Chaeya would say "stop talking about it and just do it" :wink: I am not being facetious. Just offering an opinion from a Delbert with a mullet! :lol:

#196955 by PaperDog
Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:22 am
J-HALEY wrote:Grant, have you seen the singer song writer competition at GC? I think you should submit your favorite song! When I first came to this thread after reading the title I thought you were asking whether or not you should pay a company to mass produce your cd's. Now that I am understanding your point and I am someone that has tried to make it in the biz and had my heart broken. My advise knowing you is, you have written the songs you also have some decent recordings. You can do ANYTHING that LEACH of a company can do and prolly more efficiently! IMO you are already doing the things that are necessary and on your way to getting your songs out there. So as Chaeya would say "stop talking about it and just do it" :wink: I am not being facetious. Just offering an opinion from a Delbert with a mullet! :lol:


Thanks Jeff. I am looking into some 'do it yourself" approaches... But it does seem pretty hopeless. The truth is, I just really dont know what I'm doing...and I sure don't wanna get spanked in the pocket book if I don't have to...
I also have this fear that GC will just rob me blind of whats due to me if it ever came to that. I dont trust them...

#196964 by JCP61
Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:23 am
this is a decent way to go about self promotion.
I believe it can be tailored to be fairly local if that's what you want.
pretty inexpensive, and it has the added plus of not being a musicians club.

http://www.radioairplay.com

#196980 by GuitarMikeB
Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:19 pm
J-HALEY wrote:Grant, have you seen the singer song writer competition at GC? I think you should submit your favorite song! When I first came to this thread after reading the title I thought you were asking whether or not you should pay a company to mass produce your cd's. Now that I am understanding your point and I am someone that has tried to make it in the biz and had my heart broken. My advise knowing you is, you have written the songs you also have some decent recordings. You can do ANYTHING that LEACH of a company can do and prolly more efficiently! IMO you are already doing the things that are necessary and on your way to getting your songs out there. So as Chaeya would say "stop talking about it and just do it" :wink: I am not being facetious. Just offering an opinion from a Delbert with a mullet! :lol:


Unfortunately, the GC competition is just like 99.9% of these - it's self promotion. You record your song, video it and send the link to GC, then tell all your friends to youtube-LIKE it and to tell others. If you get enough friends to like it, then maybe you'll get listed on the GC 'best of' list and have people OTHER THAN your friends see it.

#196982 by jimmydanger
Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:27 pm
You have to have a decent video these days, having audio tracks alone just doesn't cut it no matter how great they are. But even if you get a great video how do you promote it? These are the million dollar questions.

#196984 by Kramerguy
Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:58 pm
So far, I'vve only known one person to have "made it", meaning only that she was signed to a major label. The contract as far as I can see is pretty blah.. they gave her seed money and some tour support (pairs her to open for other acts), and supported the recording and release of an EP. It seems they are putting all the promotions on her, as well as everything else.. I guess they are letting her sink or swim on her own. She's doing seemingly well enough, but I've yet to see her really chart.

The point in it all was that how she got signed..

Had good demos on youtube. Gigged at least once every couple of months, in a coffee house, or wherever, just to keep herself out there. She went to music conventions (played them, as well as did the classes and support groups, which include a lot of meet and greets).

A producer at the convention saw her perform, notified some A&R guys, who stealthily went a couple of months later and saw her perform at a small taco place, and ultimately signed her.

In the end, it's about intelligently putting your music in front of people who matter. Having a good youtube video won't GET you the attention (unless you are that 1 in 200mil who have that ground-breaking "viral video"), but is necessary to support your online presence. A website is essential. Promotional material is essential, pics, video, audio, and gig schedule.

THEN, you need to physically go to music events. I've parroted here many times that in our area we have the cape may music conference and millenium music conference, I don't know what is in other areas.

Contests are bullocks, and a total waste of $$ and time. Even the "winners" are never heard from again, outside of american idol, which isn't a music competition, it's a beauty/popularity contest.

Again, look for conferences, workshops, etc.. Some will cost money, so make sure to invest wisely, go for ones that have panels with producers, publishers, agents, A&R reps. These are the fishing grounds for these people.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest