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#194608 by PaperDog
Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:17 am
Prevost82 wrote:From a friend of mine that promotes artists for radio play around the world

But can they play live?

Today i was visiting a music site, and was disappointed in what I saw there, an invitation to have your music evaluated, by C.A.S.R. computer assisted song rating, combined with human input.

So I got to thinking and began to work out some thoughts on this whole music scene. And how it has come to a point where so many musicians fall into the trap of allowing themselves t...o get sucked into this type of baloney. Below is a whole slew of thoughts and things that I thought I would share here, some may disagree, some may say, right on, and some may even say, what do I know. But since this is a place to share ones opinions on things I thought I dump my rant here. and there are going to be grammar and spelling errors more then likely,but its the way I feel about things in general about what has happened to the music industry and well musicians desires to be recognized

here goes

Overload

It seems we have hit the capacity of an overload of artists in the 21st century, the "everybody wants to be a star" syndrome , online that is.
I have a song, a cd, we are recording a new album and then what? Hey, I am not diminishing the quality of songs here, or other places. I am just being real. How many "artists" are entertainers and performers? Yes, there are good musicians, indeed some of the tracks they lay down are pretty good, and some have magic happening. But, what I ask, how many of these aspiring internet achievers are hard core working class musicians, are they true well seasoned entertainers doing it live on a regular basis. That is really where it is at. That is how it happens, like doing your apprenticeship for a trade, that is really where it all happens my friends
Its one thing to record something, its another to take it out there and do it live and work your chops and get your magic happening at a gig, a club and make a living doing it, very few do, there is just not enough places to play for everyone who thinks they have something worth listening too. but in reality, can you play live, doing it exactly how you have done it here or other sites where your music lives, lets hope so.

The Reality

In reality, its a bust aiming to make it here in on the net, its not a magic wonderland, this "internet" few, if any at all can or will be able to do much with their music and only those who know how to market their material are ever going to make money and even then there is no guarantee you will gain fame, notoriety and or make it. And dont tell me you have, cause 99.999 percent of you have not really made much of anything.

Upload upload

We promise spins and line up your music for rotation claims one internet site, your music is lined up for spins, i think its something like Fanangle or is it Dangle Jingle and or Jangle (of the money in their pockets).
So get going upload your music to this site, that site, here there everywhere. So many music sites are clamoring for your $ and then you see your song climb the charts, what a thrill,cool , really, what does it really mean, not much, its the internet folks, It's not where it happens, there essentially is no meaning or credence or value here. its not real.
Sure you have a few nice comments, some right here,and yes there are people praising your works, reviewing your songs, telling you what they like, or if they are honest, what they dont like. is that what turns you on. it shouldn't. that is if you really do it for the love of doing it and don't look to be making any money from here or where ever, cause honestly , it ain't going to happen, not much at all, maybe the few, and that's about it

Contests and paid evaluation (we love your music, pay us to tell you how great it is)

These are ways to pull in cash from the poor unsuspecting artist, the hopeful ones who rely on their real job to pay out to some real shysters and contests and pull in huge dollars, and pay out little or nothing and maybe send you a nice certificate or mention you on their site. I am not saying all are like that, because some artists have indeed been rewarded in money and prizes, but for the most part it is a big scheme to fleece you out of your hard-earned dollars. just think about it, how much money some of these "contests" pull in. And like sheep, the many fall into the trap and the appeal of this amazing opportunity to perhaps "win" a contest. The only ones who win, really are the schemers, not the dreamers.

Lets Evaluate your song, it's your money.

Some sites exclaim: "We will analyze and even perhaps, mesmerize you with how great your song is, just pay us money and we will blow smoke up your ......................because, hey you make good music." yah right, that's bullroar, and the many unsuspecting musicians ,the hopefuls, the wannabe's those looking for acknowledgment fall into that trap, and that's a shame.
Some music sites have the audacity to invite you to have your music reviewed and analyzed for its quality and or its potential to be hit material. In reality, you are getting screwed blued and tattooed out of your money. They should say, we will take your money, tell you how good it is and even feature it on our site, because ,well it is so good, especially since you paid us to say so. I mean, what's up with that?!
I mean, dont you trust that your music is good already, do you have to have it analyzed and evaluated and pay money to have someone to tell you that! Its absurd and so sad that musicians get sucked into that type of scheme. i think it is a pathetic despicable way to pander to peoples ego and then suck them in and take their money and then feature their song on whatever site because the artist wants so bad to be recognized. That is the wrong motive folks, do it for the love of it, dont be mislead by these users.
You are the creator, love what you do, and do what you love. Dont prostitute your music to these scheming shysters, it is the wrong way to promote your music. There are better ways to spend your money developing your craft.

Go out and make music, play live , that's where it is at.See More



All of the above is basically correct. I havealways likened it to the "Goldl Rush", where nobody actually got rich off the gold, but rather got rich off of selling the dream. (which included the sale of shovels) . But, the main difference is that: at least during the gold rush, a feller could walk away with a shovel as a keepsake.

I was recently approached by an online guy (operates locally where I live) who want ted t do my Song-writing Contest on line.. I turned him down because I am trying to avoid that vacuous trap. My Motto... real musicians, real Music, Real venue on a scheduled event with a real audience. Nothing beats brick and mortar when it comes to musical art.

#194616 by Chippy
Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:35 am
Nah this is all fair comment in my book, and I for one do not take anything animal from it. Playing live and getting live feedback is wonderful. I’ve played in marching bands on Tuba, and Trombone, danced with a Cello, but never quite got the hang of the Violin, perhaps sometime in the future maybe… The drums took me a lot of places of course, played live with keys a couple of times. All of this was fantastic, great to see what people think and so on.

I would add however that as a ‘muso’ (of sorts) that I am.
Most people watching bands (where I have been), were in fact musicians themselves when they weren’t playing. That was a rough a tough deal most times, because you and I know exactly why they were there, to evaluate, which I feel is healthy.

There is another point though. Many may all play and write, but not all can get a web site up and running, so free sites are a must for many. Reverb for me so far is the most honest of all. I cut FB off, I’ll never go back again.

My other erring is that writing just became easier. Software / Computers / Gear. You can get and do anything you want, but so far as your point on playing live…. Well yes, that will be very hard for any solo gig doing things the computer way, but not impossible with the right gear. Aphex Twin /Mike Oldfield to name just two did things this way for a while, and for both, it paid real dividends in the long run. My gear such as it is, is nearly gig ready, and I fully intend to use it at some point, I’m certain others itch and twitch too.
I was offered a gig last year, didn’t have the gear, next year will be different.

The final thing for me at least is this. Before sites offered the chance of listening, it was pretty damned hard to get anyone to listen without spending a fortune on discs, artwork, just plain telling people about your work.
I’ve carted bands around in what the lads called, “The Big Red Bus’. For years just to be able to play, and be seen. Now I am seen for the most part, and I have so say I love the feedback, always reply and listen, just like I did live, and in the real world too.

I will do again soon too.
Good luck to you Prevost, nice to see you writing here again.
Cheers



Prevost82 wrote:From a friend of mine that promotes artists for radio play around the world

But can they play live?

Today i was visiting a music site, and was disappointed in what I saw there, an invitation to have your music evaluated, by C.A.S.R. computer assisted song rating, combined with human input.

So I got to thinking and began to work out some thoughts on this whole music scene. And how it has come to a point where so many musicians fall into the trap of allowing themselves t...o get sucked into this type of baloney. Below is a whole slew of thoughts and things that I thought I would share here, some may disagree, some may say, right on, and some may even say, what do I know. But since this is a place to share ones opinions on things I thought I dump my rant here. and there are going to be grammar and spelling errors more then likely,but its the way I feel about things in general about what has happened to the music industry and well musicians desires to be recognized

here goes

Overload

It seems we have hit the capacity of an overload of artists in the 21st century, the "everybody wants to be a star" syndrome , online that is.
I have a song, a cd, we are recording a new album and then what? Hey, I am not diminishing the quality of songs here, or other places. I am just being real. How many "artists" are entertainers and performers? Yes, there are good musicians, indeed some of the tracks they lay down are pretty good, and some have magic happening. But, what I ask, how many of these aspiring internet achievers are hard core working class musicians, are they true well seasoned entertainers doing it live on a regular basis. That is really where it is at. That is how it happens, like doing your apprenticeship for a trade, that is really where it all happens my friends
Its one thing to record something, its another to take it out there and do it live and work your chops and get your magic happening at a gig, a club and make a living doing it, very few do, there is just not enough places to play for everyone who thinks they have something worth listening too. but in reality, can you play live, doing it exactly how you have done it here or other sites where your music lives, lets hope so.

The Reality

In reality, its a bust aiming to make it here in on the net, its not a magic wonderland, this "internet" few, if any at all can or will be able to do much with their music and only those who know how to market their material are ever going to make money and even then there is no guarantee you will gain fame, notoriety and or make it. And dont tell me you have, cause 99.999 percent of you have not really made much of anything.

Upload upload

We promise spins and line up your music for rotation claims one internet site, your music is lined up for spins, i think its something like Fanangle or is it Dangle Jingle and or Jangle (of the money in their pockets).
So get going upload your music to this site, that site, here there everywhere. So many music sites are clamoring for your $ and then you see your song climb the charts, what a thrill,cool , really, what does it really mean, not much, its the internet folks, It's not where it happens, there essentially is no meaning or credence or value here. its not real.
Sure you have a few nice comments, some right here,and yes there are people praising your works, reviewing your songs, telling you what they like, or if they are honest, what they dont like. is that what turns you on. it shouldn't. that is if you really do it for the love of doing it and don't look to be making any money from here or where ever, cause honestly , it ain't going to happen, not much at all, maybe the few, and that's about it

Contests and paid evaluation (we love your music, pay us to tell you how great it is)

These are ways to pull in cash from the poor unsuspecting artist, the hopeful ones who rely on their real job to pay out to some real shysters and contests and pull in huge dollars, and pay out little or nothing and maybe send you a nice certificate or mention you on their site. I am not saying all are like that, because some artists have indeed been rewarded in money and prizes, but for the most part it is a big scheme to fleece you out of your hard-earned dollars. just think about it, how much money some of these "contests" pull in. And like sheep, the many fall into the trap and the appeal of this amazing opportunity to perhaps "win" a contest. The only ones who win, really are the schemers, not the dreamers.

Lets Evaluate your song, it's your money.

Some sites exclaim: "We will analyze and even perhaps, mesmerize you with how great your song is, just pay us money and we will blow smoke up your ......................because, hey you make good music." yah right, that's bullroar, and the many unsuspecting musicians ,the hopefuls, the wannabe's those looking for acknowledgment fall into that trap, and that's a shame.
Some music sites have the audacity to invite you to have your music reviewed and analyzed for its quality and or its potential to be hit material. In reality, you are getting screwed blued and tattooed out of your money. They should say, we will take your money, tell you how good it is and even feature it on our site, because ,well it is so good, especially since you paid us to say so. I mean, what's up with that?!
I mean, dont you trust that your music is good already, do you have to have it analyzed and evaluated and pay money to have someone to tell you that! Its absurd and so sad that musicians get sucked into that type of scheme. i think it is a pathetic despicable way to pander to peoples ego and then suck them in and take their money and then feature their song on whatever site because the artist wants so bad to be recognized. That is the wrong motive folks, do it for the love of it, dont be mislead by these users.
You are the creator, love what you do, and do what you love. Dont prostitute your music to these scheming shysters, it is the wrong way to promote your music. There are better ways to spend your money developing your craft.

Go out and make music, play live , that's where it is at.See More

#194657 by Prevost82
Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:24 pm
A couple of things ...

I guess from my stand point his first comment "But can they play live?" is huge. I've meet so many players that think they have great skills .. and they do ,if you listen to them play by themselves but put them on stage with a band and you see their short comings with little or no stage presents .. or ability to add something to the music that is being played, they don't know how to listen.


[/quote]My other erring is that writing just became easier. Software / Computers / Gear

This has it's upside and downside ... Yes it's easier to write and record but there is little or no filter as to what is good.

In talking to my friend that wrote this acticle, he was promoting a CD that I played on, stated that he only promotes about 10% of what is sent to him because of poor material, poor musician ship, very little time on stage, and that he knows if he promoted their CD it would be a waste of the band money (he's not cheap .. 5K a month)

#194662 by PaperDog
Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:19 pm
gtZip wrote:Honestly, I gotta say that YouTube is the only real chance you have from the Internet - as far as "overnight" buzz.
It's a hugely powerful tool and much more deep than I ever thought it was.
There are people successfully monetizing their YouTube channels with just... Stupid sh*t.
If you put up good content, and something happens to go viral, or semi viral, you are off and running. What you do with it at that point could open doors - or, you could face plant.

Justin Bieber was greatly aided by YouTube.

And to be honest - if I ever post digitally for people to hear and review - I'm really looking for acknowledgement.
Not smoke, or praise.
If its my piece and not a collaboration, I already know (or feel) that it's good. I'm looking for someone to admit it.

I don't want to fish for compliments, or even hear false praise. I just want the "you Betta recognize!" to be acknowledged.

When I don't get that, it's maddening to me.
It may well be that what I put up sometimes isn't really that good and I just don't recognize it for what it is.

I try to keep a pretty good gauge on myself. I know what I can do and what I can't do.
I think you have to have a slight amount of arrogance to carry you through because self confidence is not that hard to lose.

I'm probably the quietest, most passive aggressive, lazy competitor you'll know - but the competitor is there, big time, under the placid surface.

Ya, I know, music isn't suppose to be competitive, but it is what it is...


I recognize Brotha...I recognize.
:D

Music 'should not' be competitive ?? I say Hog washing-machine to that...I believe the reason so much music out there sucks, is because of the lack of competitiveness... Its like most of those artists stopped giving a sht ...
Song writing is not important anymore. People are in fkn pain and priorities have overriden the demand for certain quality. Therein lies the challenge and the opportunity. If there is an artist, who can speak to peoples' ills of the day, and if we can get one fkn promoter/Agent who isnt retarded and can recognize a real diamond in the rough and then make an earnest investment to develop the act along side the artist, then we might see a radical change in our lame entertainment industry

#194664 by Mike Nobody
Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:26 pm

#194666 by PaperDog
Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:32 pm
Mike Nobody wrote:Universal Music CEO: We're Not In This To Make Art

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120904/10474420266/universal-music-ceo-were-not-this-to-make-art.shtml


OY! I want to take that CEO and smack him around like last year's pinata!

How the FK can anybody Not see the 's' in front of that label's 'hits'

That guy clearly is not a contributor on any level to the culture of our times... Instead, he's a formula-robot, who got loose from the factory. People like that deserve to have their mansions torched LOL!

#194735 by Starfish Scott
Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:13 pm
Prevost82 wrote:
I guess from my stand point his first comment "But can they play live?" is huge. I've meet so many players that think they have great skills .. and they do, if you listen to them play by themselves but put them on stage with a band and you see their short comings with little or no stage presents .. or ability to add something to the music that is being played, they don't know how to listen.



+1 vote for best of true comments of Bandmix.

THAT is an experience lesson only taught in the trenches where booze flows like water and smoke fills the air. And if your brain is busted, or you aren't really a musical communications type guy, one will never even get close enough to blow out the candle, let alone feel the heat of it's flame.

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